The F Word In Like A Rose

[meatfanforlife]

Originally Posted by Sarge

Watch these guys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GezFdUJY5MI

Now imagine Meat singing that song live in his "Elton John suit". Do you see what the problem is?

1) this version sucks. I was at this show and was totally turned off by the song when they sang it. When Meat sings it, its WAY better. It has MEANING.

Come off of your high horses people. Its a SONG. If it offends you, it offends you. Dont listen to the song. Simple as that. We dont need to go round and round about our opinions of how a word is used in a song.

[snider22]

Originally Posted by meatfanforlife

Come off of your high horses people. Its a SONG. If it offends you, it offends you. Dont listen to the song. Simple as that. We dont need to go round and round about our opinions of how a word is used in a song.

Amen, some of the folks on here just can seem to handle the fact that most of here love HCTB. Stop beating a dead horse for craps sake.

[AndyK]

Discussion is fine, when it gets to personal attacks (veiled or otherwise) then the line is drawn, and that goes for all the threads here! Please remember that everyone!

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by meatfanforlife

When Meat sings it, its WAY better. It has MEANING.

It's the same song. Can you explain where the meaning of Meat's version comes from if the original doesn't have any? (But please spare me the Patrick story, if possible.)

[suzieq]

Originally Posted by Sarge

Eminem has always used "bad" language in his songs, it's part of his image and he has a totally different background and audience. If he had sung ballads like Anything before and all of a sudden switched to lyrics with F words your comparison would make sense.

Steve6 never mentioned a word about Meat Loaf in his post. He made a general statement and I refuted it with an example. I have to say that you are stretching for a reason to say my comparison doesn't make sense.

[Wario]

Originally Posted by Sarge

It's the same song. Can you explain where the meaning of Meat's version comes from if the original doesn't have any? (But please spare me the Patrick story, if possible.)

i actually liked their version better

i mean we still have to see meat's live arrangement first as well. maybe its similar

[AndrewG]

Sigh, the more I am on this board and discovering that almost all these songs on HCTB have been done before by much younger people (and sometimes better), the more I think that Patrick concept is absolutely stupid and just a silly excuse to tie a bunch of random songs together. I can't think of another time when Meat has pieced together an album with so many pre-existing songs. Sooo disappointing I'm losing the ability to take my interest in this music forward.

I honestly did not know Like a Rose had been done before. What exactly is the point in Meat recording all these songs???

[Sue K]

When I first heard the song, I laughed at the line with "f*ck" in it, but when I read so many opinions about it, it starts to make me think about the "why". Is Meat trying to be hip or cool or trying to attract a younger audience ? I don't know. I just want to enjoy the song without thinking about it. For me, it just is what it is: a song sung by someone I enjoy very much.

[Wario]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Sigh, the more I am on this board and discovering that almost all these songs on HCTB have been done before by much younger people (and sometimes better), the more I think that Patrick concept is absolutely stupid and just a silly excuse to tie a bunch of random songs together. I can't think of another time when Meat has pieced together an album with so many pre-existing songs. Sooo disappointing I'm losing the ability to take my interest in this music forward.

obviosuly if these song writers wrote the songs they tested them out with audiences before. he made no secret that many people were writing the stuff.

It takes skill to put songs (however unrelated) into a co-adhesive storyline. I trust meat and if he says Patrick exists, so be it.

Look at Not A Dry Eye or id Lie For You, meat wasnt the first to perform them. Im sure I saw diane warren perform both on youtube in 1994...

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Sarge

Using "offensive" language isn't art, it kind of reminds me of conversations you overhear when using public transportation or go shopping at a discounter.

But isn't that really the intent of the song? I mean, as a performer who both sings and does stand up - I know there is a time and a place for everything. If I am singing a church service, I know there is an "appropriateness" for that moment. If I am doing stand up in a club, I know I have to ramp up the "naughty" a bit. Further, if I am hosting Rocky Horror, I know that if I am not dropping an f-bomb at least every 30 seconds that I am not really doing my job.

I will be the first to admit that I have somewhat of a potty mouth; however, as an artist I know that my language must fit within the context of the moment. If I am in a situation where it is my job as an entertainer to portray a certain function, I know I must either ramp it up and cool it off. For example, when Rocky Horror starts, I know the audience is going to be dropping all kinds of naughty language at every turn as part of the "call backs" and part of my job as emcee of Rocky Horror is to brace the new or more sensitive audience for what they are about to hear, that's why I drop a ton of dirty words during my opening. The context of the song is very much a "locker room" or "boys club" type of setting. To me, it would be offensive to have the context of the song butchered by softening the syntax.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by WarioLoaf

obviosuly if these song writers wrote the songs they tested them out with audiences before. he made no secret that many people were writing the stuff.

It takes skill to put songs (however unrelated) into a co-adhesive storyline. I trust meat and if he says Patrick exists, so be it.

Look at Not A Dry Eye or id Lie For You, meat wasnt the first to perform them. Im sure I saw diane warren perform both on youtube in 1994...

Well this is the danger of using so many different song writers. Meat himself didn't even know "Did you ever love somebody" had been recorded before. I honestly think he should get one song writer or just a few more to write songs solely for him, like was done for the main tracks on CHSIB and the main new ones on Bat 3. I really think those songs sound like they were written for Meat Loaf and not just a bunch of songs anyone can use in their band, which it seems Like a Rose is like.

I think this may well be the main reason I don't like HCTB. Thanks to everyone for helping me find it. Mission accomplished. Now off to find new things...

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by suzieq

Steve6 never mentioned a word about Meat Loaf in his post. He made a general statement and I refuted it with an example. I have to say that you are stretching for a reason to say my comparison doesn't make sense.

I'm not. Since this thread is about Meat Loaf using the F word and you added the sentence "again, people just have a problem with Meat Loaf using it", I wasn't aware that you referred to a general statement only.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by suzieq

BUT when Meat uses explicit language on stage he gets a good rise from the audience as well as laughter at times. These words are used in the song to be grungy and dirty, not to be "hip". It just sounds like certain folk want more of the same Meat Loaf of albums past. He's moved on from that style for now. It's not your cup of tea, we get it, he gets it....it doesn't mean he's going to change his style for some disgruntled old timer fans.

I Couldn't Have Said It Better Myself!

[Rage Against]

Here's my final point on this. If you don't like it, don't listen to it, but don't persecute me for thinking there's nothing wrong with it. You don't like it, ok. I like it, that's also ok. You want him to sing Steinman or Steinmanesque songs. Take out Bat I or II. I'll listen to the rest. Fair enough?

[Evil One]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Well this is the danger of using so many different song writers. Meat himself didn't even know "Did you ever love somebody" had been recorded before.

We've gone from 'all the songs were never recorded before' to 'most of the songs have been recorded before' in a pretty short space of time.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by CarylB

n the same way I think the phrase in California works perfectly too. It's vivid, basic, the kind of phrase I've heard men use when they're talking about their purely physical reaction of being turned on. The character isn't singing to a woman he loves deeply; it's not meant to be a FCOL to a woman who's meant the world to him .. he's singing to a hooker with all the raw sexuality that implies; not with love, reverence, appreciation of the woman as a person, but based purely on his basic sexual urge. Again, it works to me. As Gizmo said, acceptable, justified and fit in the context.

OMG! I think the world just might end right here and now...but I could not agree with you more on this point. You hit the nail right on the head. The songs for Bat were meant to take the listener on a journey of passion and romance. The songs on Bat 2 were chosen to take the listener further on the journey of the songs from Bat 1. I would venture to say that the songs on Couldn't Have Said It Better were chosen to take the listener on an adventure of the end of a relationship for the most part. In the same realm, the songs on Hang Cool Teddy Bear are pieced together to not show romance or a typical high-functioning relationship - they are pieced together to show the life of a blue collar, hard working, plain spoken dude. The raw and piercing guitar work on this album would not have worked with soaring and epically proportioned lyrics found elsewhere in the Meat Loaf catalogue.

[Wario]

Originally Posted by Evil One

We've gone from 'all the songs were never recorded before' to 'most of the songs have been recorded before' in a pretty short space of time.

Only one was, DYELS. Everything else was either only performed live or in demo. Nothing has been mainstream released

[Evil One]

Originally Posted by Dave

The songs on Bat 2 were chosen to take the listener further on the journey of the songs from Bat 1.

That's a debatable point.

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by WarioLoaf

Everything else was either only performed live or in demo

Why did I pay money for Rick Brantley's CDs then? Why are they available in online stores?

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Sarge

A song should speak for itself. I don't buy the Patrick story and I don't care about what he thinks, I don't listen to the songs that way. I would probably hate the album if I did. If you click the link I posted you might realize that the concept of Meat playing a young fellow who uses "explicit" language is not really convincing.

Why not? Have you ever seen a Meat Loaf concert in the American Midwest with the punk kids with multicolored mohawks pseudo-moshing and the audiences crushed up against the stage barriers for the entire show rockin' out like they were at a real rock show? I think the problem is people are very opinionated about their Meat and fail to see that he does appeal to a very broad audience. I have seen older "blue hair" couples in formal cocktail attire, hells angels biker babes, and people in full on Frank N. Furter gear at the same Meat Loaf show all appreciating the music the way they see fit. Meat Loaf is so universal that is not "my way or the highway" with him. Just because his current project is more edgy and raw than in the past, does not mean Meat has turned his back on his past, it just means he realizes there is a part of the taste palate where he has yet to deliver.

[Evil One]

Some of the most well thought out and precisely written examples of the English language you'll find on the internet today.

[suzieq]

Originally Posted by Sarge

Why did I pay money for Rick Brantley's CDs then? Why are they available in online stores?

I think you may have been taken advantage of...those versions suck you may want to file a complaint to whoever robbed you of your coin.

[meatfanforlife]

*laugh* Oook then E1.

[Wario]

Originally Posted by suzieq

I think you may have been taken advantage of...those versions suck you may want to file a complaint to whoever robbed you of your coin.

sad thing is shes right though. they've been released.... ive been proven wrong oy

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Sarge

Yeah, but I wish he had selected a more interesting character, one that suits him better.

Until I get to see his portrayal of Patrick in a live concert setting, which does not seem likely as he was sick and it does not look like HCTB Live was meant for me, from what I can hear on the record and see in the youtube clips, it looks like he is pulling it off quite well. Perhaps it is you personally, who does not think it suits him well?