Meat's posts

[AndyK]

There are a number of issues raised in this thread which need to be considered. Some are pretty obvious, some require a little more consideration.

All of the issues raised will be responded to, but rather than giving a "knee jerk" reponse please give us the opportunity to discuss this between ourselves, some of the team haven't been online since this raised it's head and it's only fair that they be given the opportunity to understand all the issues raised. As you all know the team that operate this site are all volunteers, with jmany other commitments and we can't be here 24/7.

In the meantime, please remember that every user has the ability to report any post that they feel is worth reporting, and try to remain respectful with what is posted, whatever your opinion.

[daveake]

Thanks for the confirmation, Caryl.

[daveake]

Originally Posted by TheDoode

Daveake,

If you have the right to trash things, then I have the right to defend them.

Doode.

I have the right to state my opinion. You have no right, seeing as you're not a mod, to tell people what they can't post. As Andy says there's a "report" button if you don't like anything I or anyone else says.

[TheDoode]

Originally Posted by daveake

I have the right to state my opinion. You have no right, seeing as you're not a mod, to tell people what they can't post. As Andy says there's a "report" button if you don't like anything I or anyone else says.

So far I haven't actually 'told' a single person that they CAN'T post their 'opinion'. What I have done is take a stand at what has offended ME. That's MY opinion. Stop twisting my intentions.

You want to know what I found during my first week of being a member here?

"Some of you really hate me here!"

We both know where that quote came from. And he should NEVER *NEVER* be made to feel like that. So if you've seen me be a little gung-ho about keeping the atmosphere 'positive' (I love how you try and turn that into a bad thing by the way, serioulsy, made ME grin) it's for that exact reason. There's a new album out. The promotion is intense. Doing anything creative demands a good atmosphere, especially if you're sensitive to what people are saying about you. Maybe you find that hard to understand if you've never been there yourself.

Don't try and attack me, Daveake, because I'll call you for it time and time again. I've got nothing to hide, and I'm not doing anything 'wrong' here.

Doode.

[daveake]

Originally Posted by TheDoode

So far I haven't actually 'told' a single person that they CAN'T post their 'opinion'. What I have done is take a stand at what has offended ME.

Well, that's fine then. I look forward to you not telling telling people that they shouldn't post their honest objective thoughts when they do so in future.

[TheDoode]

And I look forward to you not trolling. Way forward.

[Sue K]

... that if soon we all don't agree to disagree and shake on it ... ... this thread will be locked... right ? ... it's already been tucked away in Feedback Central ... ... lol ... SEIZE THE DAY AND PEACE IT OUT !!!! ... ...

[wolfy35]

I didn't see any of the posts that happened yesterday for medical reasons so I would be foolish to comment on them

However

Several times recently I have been upset by posts from one or two people that to me seemed to be an attack on Meat and I feel this can not be allowed to continue any longer. We are all allowed our opions but what can not be allowed are the form of personal attacks and insults that have happened recently.

The way I see it is that this is a place where Meat fans can come together and talk about many topics, Meat being the most inportant of these. More importantly this site has proved for a long time to be a place where Meat can be among friends.
Remember its not so long ago that Meat returned to us here after spending a good long time away because some insults posted on this site upset and angered him to the point he abandoned us for too long.

Meat meens too much to me for me to continue to be here if personal attacks on him are allowed to continue.

[jools35]

Hello everyone,

I have read with great interest this thread.
I did not see all of the thread that was deleted.

In my humble Opinion, you can love the album(like i do) or dislike it.
As the saying goes 'Opinions are like a----eholes, everyone has one'

I have no problem with anyone voicing their opinions(and im sure no one else has either)
What i do have a problem with is the personel attacts that seem to be happening.

If you dont like the album thats ok, put your crititisms politely and be constructive with them.

But dont not slag anyone off.

Its a privilage i believe to have Meat Loaf posting on this site.

Do we want him not to post any more ??

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by Monstro

Personally I don't want to see someone I've admired and followed for donkey's years reduce himself to the level of those just trying to wind him up

Thank you for that sentence, Monstro.

[LucyK!]

This won't go down well but here goes anyway...

Personally I think it only right that the thread started by Evil One was locked and that the follow-up thread started by Meat was also moved. If that thread had been an argument between Evil One and me, then one or both of us would have been infracted or had posts reported for inappropriate behaviour towards another member. I would also have been infracted if I'd been the cause of a thread needing to be locked and then had chosen to start another one to continue the argument.

As far as I'm concerned it should be one rule for all regardless of who the poster is, otherwise what's the point in the rules?

[MeatGrl1]

Originally Posted by Lucy!

This won't go down well but here goes anyway...

Personally I think it only right that the thread started by Evil One was locked and that the follow-up thread started by Meat was also moved. If that thread had been an argument between Evil One and me, then one or both of us would have been infracted or had posts reported for inappropriate behaviour towards another member. I would also have been infracted if I'd been the cause of a thread needing to be locked and then had chosen to start another one to continue the argument.

As far as I'm concerned it should be one rule for all regardless of who the poster is, otherwise what's the point in the rules?

Very well said.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by wolfy35

Several times recently I have been upset by posts from one or two people that to me seemed to be an attack on Meat and I feel this can not be allowed to continue any longer. We are all allowed our opions but what can not be allowed are the form of personal attacks and insults that have happened recently.

....

Meat meens too much to me for me to continue to be here if personal attacks on him are allowed to continue.

Please, if you have a problem with someone's posts, it is as simple as clicking on the "report" button. As a board mod, I can say that honest conversation goes into making decisions about each and every reported post. If anyone has a problem with anything posted, save yourself heartache and stress worrying over it and leave it in the hands of the moderators by clicking the report button. We love Meat Loaf just as much as all of you and will do our very best to take quick action when we can.

Big love...

Dave

[wolfy35]

Originally Posted by Dave

Please, if you have a problem with someone's posts, it is as simple as clicking on the "report" button.
Dave

I dont have a "report" button anymore on here I lost it when I switched to a 64 bit O/S and added the facebook bridge

[AndyK]

Originally Posted by wolfy35

I dont have a "report" button anymore on here I lost it when I switched to a 64 bit O/S and added the facebook bridge

You sure about that? It should be there for every post, under the posters avatar. Not that I'm completely doubting you it just seems odd that it would disappear from the styles because of the underlying OS of your machine or the FB bridge.

If it has truly gone, then until The Plumber can get round to fixing it, presumably you still have the PM facility and you know who the mods are?

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Lucy!

This won't go down well but here goes anyway...

Not at all. I can understand where you're coming from, its basis in principle, but I do see it a bit differently. Imo Meat IS different to other members, he's the performer the site's about. Leaving aside the webmaster, without whom there wouldn't be a site , Meat is imo arguably the member most people would miss were he not to visit and post. I too don't like to see him having to come down to the level of those who choose to prod and poke him, as others have said. But because of who he is, he is also more prey to those with various motives trying to wind him up than is the average member here. He shouldn't need to have defend himself or call people out imo, simply because he shouldn't be subjected to personal attacks, nor to rude or vitriolic attacks on his work. He does deserve respect, hell he's earned it over the years both through his work and through the way he has treated his fans .. but is often the person least likely to receive it from a few, simply because being Meat he's the target.

To me it's about prevention. A clear message to people who want to come here and post, and one that goes beyond the general rules, is more specific, and clearly set out, rather than being repeatedly discussed in threads like this or the one started a while ago about being a fan. One that goes beyond the general rules in clarity precisely because of who he is, and because he can be an obvious and easy target, being the performer rather than one of the fans.

Those who don't like him, don't like his work .. I can see no laudable reason for their coming here if it's primarily to dampen the enthusiasm of his fans or to prod him into a reaction. Those who take issue with/don't like some of his work, fair enough .. say so and why, but without being rude or abrasive. But it seems to me a fansite is a place where those who DO like what he's doing should be able to get excited, discuss, and celebrate this enthusiastically as much as they want. Those who don't could, having made their views known, distance themselves from the general enthusiasm if they find it tiresome, but not continually pour cold water on the the excitement, nor remind us repeatedly that they don't like it. We know that very well.

Caryl

[TheDoode]

A big amen to that.

Doode.

[meat_loaf2008]

cant we all just sing kumbya and get along? Jesus people..

[MeatGrl1]

Right...

[Dave]

Originally Posted by CarylB

Not at all. I can understand where you're coming from, its basis in principle, but I do see it a bit differently. Imo Meat IS different to other members, he's the performer the site's about. Leaving aside the webmaster, without whom there wouldn't be a site , Meat is imo arguably the member most people would miss were he not to visit and post.

I can speak to this from a few levels, as I am a member of some forums, moderator on others, webmaster on a couple, and yes...even the subject of a couple different forums. On the forums where I am a member, I play by the rules of the game as set forth by the moderator - if I don't like how they play the game, I revoke membership and move on to greener pastures. I am a moderator/admin for forums, so I know how great this task can be and I respect the hard work the mod team puts forth, often without compensation, to ensure everything runs smooth. As for the forums where I am the subject, even though I am an artist and help create the buzz that is being discussed, I am subject to playing by the rules of the forum - same as the "fans" of what is being discussed. I think it only fair.

Originally Posted by CarylB

To me it's about prevention. A clear message to people who want to come here and post, and one that goes beyond the general rules, is more specific, and clearly set out, rather than being repeatedly discussed in threads like this or the one started a while ago about being a fan. One that goes beyond the general rules in clarity precisely because of who he is, and because he can be an obvious and easy target being the performer rather than one of the fans.

Rules are rules - there should never be a double standard for anyone at anytime. That is how I see it. We are all on this planet together and all deserving of being treated as equal - no one is lesser or greater than anyone else. That is how I see it.

Originally Posted by CarylB

Those who don't like him, don't like his work .. I can see no laudable reason for their coming here if it's primarily to dampen the enthusiasm of his fans or to prod him into a reaction. Those who take issue with/don't like some of his work, fair enough say so and why, but without being rude or abrasive. But it seems to me a fansite should be a place where those who DO like what he's doing to be able to get excited, discuss, and celebrate enthusiastically what he's doing as much as they want. Those who don't could, having made their views known, distance themselves from the general enthusiasm if they find it tiresome, but not continually pour cold water on the the excitement, nor remind us repeatedly that they don't like it. We know that very well.

Again, let me state that the absolute best method to deal with anything you think might be offensive on this message board is to simply click the "report" button. I know that all reported messages are reviewed by the moderation team on this site. If the action taken by the mods are not to your liking, then so be it. Again, I can speak from all angles here, having been on all ends of a forum, and can say the world is not perfect and you cannot always get what you want, but if you try sometimes (by clicking on the report button), you just might find, you get what you need. Not all mod decisions are going to please everyone, they simply cannot. But by participating on this site, you have to agree to the moderation standards set forth by the mod team here.

Big love...

Dave

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by meat_loaf2008

cant we all just sing kumbya and get along? Jesus people..

Like we always do .. until the next time when Meat is prodded with a stick, reacts and it starts all over again?

Sorry, I may find I have to see the usual conclusion, the prodding sticks get put on the shelf, and then when Meat starts touring see the same familiar pattern repeat. But I'm not singing kumbya.

Caryl

[nikox1]

Originally Posted by CarylB

Not at all. I can understand where you're coming from, its basis in principle, but I do see it a bit differently. Imo Meat IS different to other members, he's the performer the site's about. Leaving aside the webmaster, without whom there wouldn't be a site , Meat is imo arguably the member most people would miss were he not to visit and post. I too don't like to see him having to come down to the level of those who choose to prod and poke him, as others have said. But because of who he is, he is also more prey to those with various motives trying to wind him up than is the average member here. He shouldn't need to have defend himself or call people out imo, simply because he shouldn't be subjected to personal attacks, nor to rude or vitriolic attacks on his work. He does deserve respect, hell he's earned it over the years both through his work and through the way he has treated his fans .. but is often the person least likely to receive it from a few, simply because being Meat he's the target.

To me it's about prevention. A clear message to people who want to come here and post, and one that goes beyond the general rules, is more specific, and clearly set out, rather than being repeatedly discussed in threads like this or the one started a while ago about being a fan. One that goes beyond the general rules in clarity precisely because of who he is, and because he can be an obvious and easy target, being the performer rather than one of the fans.

Those who don't like him, don't like his work .. I can see no laudable reason for their coming here if it's primarily to dampen the enthusiasm of his fans or to prod him into a reaction. Those who take issue with/don't like some of his work, fair enough .. say so and why, but without being rude or abrasive. But it seems to me a fansite is a place where those who DO like what he's doing should be able to get excited, discuss, and celebrate this enthusiastically as much as they want. Those who don't could, having made their views known, distance themselves from the general enthusiasm if they find it tiresome, but not continually pour cold water on the the excitement, nor remind us repeatedly that they don't like it. We know that very well.

Caryl

everything you said is true, very true!! prevention is better than cure? and it continues because its not prevented? i do also agree that these countless threads need to stop! and there is no need for a witch hunt, but for the trouble makers to be dealt with, if people continue to bend the rules they need to be sorted, that includes myself or anybody thats causing problems?
people can have arguments, and some banter, thats all ok!! but the bottom line is everybody knows whats going on? and to be fair to the mods, im sure they dont want to get so tough on people, that people wont want to post anymore? so it needs to be dealt with carefully i guess? now in some peoples eyes when meat jumped in that was wrong? but to me, it gave some people the kick they needed, i suppose it gave some people a voice to speak up?

[Dave]

Originally Posted by nikox1

people can have arguments, and some banter, thats all ok!! but the bottom line is everybody knows whats going on? and to be fair to the mods, im sure they dont want to get so tough on people, that people wont want to post anymore? so it needs to be dealt with carefully i guess? now in some peoples eyes when meat jumped in that was wrong? but to me, it gave some people the kick they needed, i suppose it gave some people a voice to speak up?

That is one of the rare and unique aspects of this board is that everyone does have a voice. Everyone can access the "report" feature on any forum post made here and know the mod team will look into what is going on. Just because the mod team does not choose to handle a given situation the way you would best see fit, does not mean the situation has not been handled. Rather than expending any further energies kicking a dead horse and posting the same thing in the same thread over and over again, why not move outside of this topic and get back to discussing the music, movies, and projects of Meat Loaf? If you happen across something that does not sit well with you, click the report button and know it is being dealt with to the best of the mod team's abilities.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Dave

I can speak to this from a few levels, as I am a member of some forums, moderator on others, webmaster on a couple, and yes...even the subject of a couple different forums. Dave

I've explained where I stand and why, so won't argue, save to say with all the best will in the world the status quo has been shown time and again not to be sufficient to prevent what lies at the root of this thread, despite the fact that I'd agree reporting has effected improvements and I'd applaud that. But still it can happen as it has again most recently. Andy says consideration is being given to the issues raised here again. So I'll await the outcome of those and hope for some solutions which will resolve things once and for all.

Caryl

[TheDoode]

Originally Posted by Dave

I can speak to this from a few levels, as I am a member of some forums, moderator on others, webmaster on a couple, and yes...even the subject of a couple different forums. On the forums where I am a member, I play by the rules of the game as set forth by the moderator - if I don't like how they play the game, I revoke membership and move on to greener pastures. I am a moderator/admin for forums, so I know how great this task can be and I respect the hard work the mod team puts forth, often without compensation, to ensure everything runs smooth. As for the forums where I am the subject, even though I am an artist and help create the buzz that is being discussed, I am subject to playing by the rules of the forum - same as the "fans" of what is being discussed. I think it only fair.



Rules are rules - there should never be a double standard for anyone at anytime. That is how I see it. We are all on this planet together and all deserving of being treated as equal - no one is lesser or greater than anyone else. That is how I see it.



Again, let me state that the absolute best method to deal with anything you think might be offensive on this message board is to simply click the "report" button. I know that all reported messages are reviewed by the moderation team on this site. If the action taken by the mods are not to your liking, then so be it. Again, I can speak from all angles here, having been on all ends of a forum, and can say the world is not perfect and you cannot always get what you want, but if you try sometimes (by clicking on the report button), you just might find, you get what you need. Not all mod decisions are going to please everyone, they simply cannot. But by participating on this site, you have to agree to the moderation standards set forth by the mod team here.

Big love...

Dave

Dave,

Tell me I'm wrong: various users are allowed to constantly post derrogatory remarks (fleshed out with abuse on the other forums they post on under the same names) and Meat isn't allowed to defend himself (at his own fan community)?

That's insane. And it troubles me. Some of the behaviour on here has been borderline sociopathic. And we're saying that it's okay, and that they can get away with it, but Meat shouldn't retaliate because he's direct, and honest, and right on the point?

Again man, it troubles me

You did read that post, right, where Meat said "Some of you really hate me here!". Doesn't that kind of point out that there's something very wrong going on..? Like, the very artiste this site is set up to celebrate, is saying that he feels unwelcome, and threatened?

I'm not trying to incite a riot Dave, and I'm not telling you how to run your own board, but I just can't let this one go.

Doode.

I don't want peace on Earth... I'd settle for peace of mind

EDIT:

The report function for me skirts around the issue... usually the cause is the effects of multiple posts built up over a short period of time, some times even in different threads. And it's usually not the content per se, but the tone and implications of said posts. They do it, they know they do it, they know HOW to do it and get away with it. That's why we're here talking about it now.