WHY DOES MEAT HAVE SUCH A DOWNER ON DESMOND CHILD?

[nightinr]

Ok Bat 3 wasn't as good as Bat 1 or Bat 2, but it never was going to be without Steinman writing all the songs. I do however think Bat 3 was an excellent album that was well produced combining the old "over the top" style with the edgier modern rocky style.

I remember Meat being interviewed saying Desmond had done a great job with the album (or words to this effect). Then a couple of years later he was highly critical of Desmond.

Stranger still was Meat allowed Elvis in Vegas to be on Hang Cool Teddy Bear - this track was written by Desmond Child.

Although I'm not a massive fan of Bon Jovi you've got to appreciate some of the power ballards Child has helped produce/write.

I wonder if Meat and Desmond Child had a falling out that cause Meat to be so critical of Desmond in later years?

[TheDoode]

This one's been answered time and time again on these boards, by Meat himself. Check it out

[Monstro]

Originally Posted by TheDoode

This one's been answered time and time again on these boards, by Meat himself. Check it out

Yup, one of those "use the search function" moments.

To be honest gonna move this out of general messages as this has been done to death and will only end up the same as other threads

[Evil One]

Originally Posted by Fire Ball

Yes he did ruin the Jim songs except the last one

Originally Posted by Fire Ball

This is not DEsmond all over again !! Learned a real hard lesson with that onel

Originally Posted by Fire Ball

I'm glad that some of you like Bat 3 , I just have real problems with it emotionaly . Really missed Jim , kept thinking he was coming on board ... He did at the very end but it was too late . Desmond (ego Maniac) had done his damage , my thinking . Plus the record co had told Jim's manager to go screw himself. I love Jim and my guilt for not him being there has eaten me up !!! I will never forgive myself even though Jim's manager was out of control. I should have fought them all , but it was a fire storm !!!
M

Originally Posted by Fire Ball

I swore after what Desmond did to the vocals , I would never let that happen again. There are better Live versions off that album than there were on that album

Originally Posted by Fire Ball

I'm doing the same thing after the fact because of what Desmond did. Like sending songs to the record without me knowing it. Having Record co. president showing up telling me , how this song must stay on the record.
You have know Idea, you think I have the money to fight a record co. Some of you live with your head in the sand , your fingers in your ears , and wear blinders . I feel bad for you ! Live in the real world and see what it's like.

Originally Posted by Fire Ball

There in lies the problem it was not the BAT 3 I wanted but after Desmond lied and went over the budget 1.2 million dollars . I was lied to for months saying "oh Yes we are right on budget". Finally I went to the accountants responsible for payments and asked "we can't be on budget can we" . they started looking at payments at that point we were 600,000 over and with so much work to do I couldn't keep fighting I had to finish what I had. The accountants were fired that day. It was their job. There are more stories of the naked truth to bat 3

Originally Posted by Fire Ball

Desmond is playing in a minor league ball park

And just for a bit of balance:

Originally Posted by Fire Ball

Before you judge the product or me why don't you wait until Sept. to state your opinions or make your judgments .
Try being supportive , do not be a saboteur or a detractor. Desmond child is a genius as a writer and producer just different . Have a little faith and trust the product, it may be very very different and maybe will surprise you. Be positive not negative . Be a true Meat Loaf fan ,if your not a true fan then please continue on with your BS, so the other people on this site who are true and real fans will know who the real detractors and saboteurs are.
Thanks
Meat

[Breeze]

Thanks Evil, that saved a lot of search time.

[Wario]

Originally Posted by nightinr

Ok Bat 3 wasn't as good as Bat 1 or Bat 2, but it never was going to be without Steinman writing all the songs.

I stopped reading after that.

Its not who wrote the songs it how they were produced. COM if it was at least produced in a Steinman way like Not A Dry Eye was would've been fantastic.

[Evil One]

Originally Posted by Wario

Its not who wrote the songs it how they were produced.

I stopped reading after that.

A Bat Out Of Hell album should have all Steinman songs.

[Mr. Happy]

Originally Posted by Wario

COM if it was at least produced in a Steinman way like Not A Dry Eye was would've been fantastic.

Another night sleepless, I don't want to feel this
Nothing can stop this pain.
Trying to get to a time I forget you
Still tangled in yesterday.

It's so easy for you to feel nothing for me
Did you ever feel anything?

Cry Over Me was beyond rescue the moment Diane Warren looked at the first draft of the lyrics (the result of a hard, laborious fifteen minutes) and said, "Yep, that's good enough!"

[wolfy35]

Think you will find that because of what working with Child did to Meat that its not just Meat that has a downer on Child that a large chunk of Meat fans also have a downer on him.
He made Meat so miserable that it so very nearly was the last we ever heard from him.
Plus he butchered the Steinman tracks.

[chansadres]

Originally Posted by Evil One

I stopped reading after that.

A Bat Out Of Hell album should have all Steinman songs.

I don't fully agree. I mean, Pandora's Box is a great Steinman album but it doesn't contain only Steinman songs. If I have the option I prefer only Steinman originals. But if a song like Not A Dry Eye would wind up on the album, I see no problem. All about production offcourse.

[samurai7]

Originally Posted by chansadres

I don't fully agree. I mean, Pandora's Box is a great Steinman album but it doesn't contain only Steinman songs. If I have the option I prefer only Steinman originals. But if a song like Not A Dry Eye would wind up on the album, I see no problem. All about production offcourse.

Where does it say Bat Out Of Hell on the Pandora's Box album?

[loaferman61]

Originally Posted by Evil One

And just for a bit of balance:

Wow that bit of balance quote shows how far out of control this project got from the record company, to Desmond, to the accounting people. No wonder Meat is not happy with it. Interesting that he now agrees with the fans that he originally didn't. It had to have been a bad experience for him.

[ricgough]

Originally Posted by loaferman61

Wow that bit of balance quote shows how far out of control this project got from the record company, to Desmond, to the accounting people. No wonder Meat is not happy with it. Interesting that he now agrees with the fans that he originally didn't. It had to have been a bad experience for him.

To be fair, I would think reviews and sales might well have helped bring him around to the latter viewpoint. There are meat albums I actively dislike, albums I adore, a few jims songs I hate, many I will take to my grave. One thing Meatloaf as a singer and performer will never be is simply bland. Same with jim as a writer and producer. The problem with bat 3 was it was just sort of.... indifferent and didnt ever come close to maximising the potential of the material or Meat's delivery. Any BOOH record should never be bland. "Monster"was just that - a big budget generic rock record which missed it's purpose completely. An insult to it's own heritage.
The ability of child to take Meat loaf singing steinman and make it sound like just another corporate rock abum is quite a feat in itself.
At least "hang cool" took risks and can be respected for that.

Bat 1 and 2 were all about taking risks and pulling them off with great aplomb. Steinmans vision was lacking on "monster" and I consider it a sequel only in name personally.

If queen can make "made in heaven" after Freddie died with canned vocals and a cohesive vision then I'm sorry but I don't buy the "Jim is sick" argument as to why we can't have a fitting conclusion to the booh saga in the fullness of time - if the will is there obviously.

[ricgough]

Originally Posted by loaferman61

Wow that bit of balance quote shows how far out of control this project got from the record company, to Desmond, to the accounting people. No wonder Meat is not happy with it. Interesting that he now agrees with the fans that he originally didn't. It had to have been a bad experience for him.

To be fair, I would think reviews and sales might well have helped bring him around to the latter viewpoint. There are meat albums I actively dislike, albums I adore, a few jims songs I hate, many I will take to my grave. One thing Meatloaf as a singer and performer will never be is simply bland. Same with jim as a writer and producer. The problem with bat 3 was it was just sort of "meh...." and didnt ever come close to maximising the potential of the material or Meat's delivery. Any BOOH record should never be bland. "Monster"was just that - a big budget generic rock record which missed it's purpose completely. An insult to it's own heritage.
The ability of child to take Meat loaf singing steinman and make it sound like just another corporate rock abum is quite a feat in itself.
At least "hang cool" took risks and can be respected for that.

Bat 1 and 2 were all about taking risks and pulling them off with great aplomb. Steinmans vision was lacking on "monster" and I consider it a sequel only in name personally.

If queen can make "made in heaven" after Freddie died with song snippetd and canned vocals and a cohesive vision then I'm sorry but I don't buy the "Jim is sick" argument as to why we can't have a fitting conclusion to the booh saga in the fullness of time - if the will is there obviously.

The problem seems to be that the desire clearly wasn't there, for whatever reason though quite which party is to blame for that is less obvious from an outsiders point of view.
That doesn't mitigate the disappointment though, even now from a personal perspective.

[krabat666]

"I swore after what Desmond did to the vocals , I would never let that happen again. There are better Live versions off that album than there were on that album."

I really dont understand what he means. I think the vocals sound great. Every note and the timing is perfect and to my ears it sounds very emotional too.
For me - his best vocals since the 70s/early 80s.

I like the whole album except "If god could talk".

[ThatWriterGuy]

Although I do like TMIL as a MEAT LOAF album (find your own subtext 'here'), I can't agree that the vocals are comparable to, let alone better than, BAT 2. And that's not to say that TMIL is a vocally 'bad' record -- far from it!

[ashkent7]

Originally Posted by krabat666

"I swore after what Desmond did to the vocals , I would never let that happen again. There are better Live versions off that album than there were on that album."

I really dont understand what he means. I think the vocals sound great. Every note and the timing is perfect and to my ears it sounds very emotional too.
For me - his best vocals since the 70s/early 80s.

I like the whole album except "If god could talk".

I think to Meat it is too good a vocal, as in a perfect paint by numbers rather than his sometimes strained emotional vocal. If you listen to his Bad For Good from Bat 4 against either Jim's version or Meat's own version from '88 there is no comparison. I remember Jim commenting on the Bat 3 version that it was the little things that were missing like the growl (Jim does it on the last "you'll never hide away from me") where the vocal on Bat 3 is very good but also very plain. I think that was Meat's issue with it. For me the only song on there that came close was Land of The Pig and Cry To Heaven.

[krabat666]

Yeah you're right with BAT2 - Specially in 1993 there were much more recording limitations with less effects and protools was in the early stages.

[krabat666]

Listen to the 88 Version for the first time on youtube right now. Sounds awesome! But if you think about meats age in 2006....this version is stunning too!