WHY DOES MEAT HAVE SUCH A DOWNER ON DESMOND CHILD?
 

Ok Bat 3 wasn't as good as Bat 1 or Bat 2, but it never was going to be without Steinman writing all the songs. I do however think Bat 3 was an excellent album that was well produced combining the old "over the top" style with the edgier modern rocky style.

I remember Meat being interviewed saying Desmond had done a great job with the album (or words to this effect). Then a couple of years later he was highly critical of Desmond.

Stranger still was Meat allowed Elvis in Vegas to be on Hang Cool Teddy Bear - this track was written by Desmond Child.

Although I'm not a massive fan of Bon Jovi you've got to appreciate some of the power ballards Child has helped produce/write.

I wonder if Meat and Desmond Child had a falling out that cause Meat to be so critical of Desmond in later years?

This one's been answered time and time again on these boards, by Meat himself. Check it out :cool:

Yup, one of those "use the search function" moments.

To be honest gonna move this out of general messages as this has been done to death and will only end up the same as other threads

And just for a bit of balance:

Thanks Evil, that saved a lot of search time.

I stopped reading after that.

Its not who wrote the songs it how they were produced. COM if it was at least produced in a Steinman way like Not A Dry Eye was would've been fantastic.

I stopped reading after that.

A Bat Out Of Hell album should have all Steinman songs.

Another night sleepless, I don't want to feel this
Nothing can stop this pain.
Trying to get to a time I forget you
Still tangled in yesterday.

It's so easy for you to feel nothing for me
Did you ever feel anything?

Cry Over Me was beyond rescue the moment Diane Warren looked at the first draft of the lyrics (the result of a hard, laborious fifteen minutes) and said, "Yep, that's good enough!" :lol:

Think you will find that because of what working with Child did to Meat that its not just Meat that has a downer on Child that a large chunk of Meat fans also have a downer on him.
He made Meat so miserable that it so very nearly was the last we ever heard from him.
Plus he butchered the Steinman tracks.

I don't fully agree. I mean, Pandora's Box is a great Steinman album but it doesn't contain only Steinman songs. If I have the option I prefer only Steinman originals. But if a song like Not A Dry Eye would wind up on the album, I see no problem. All about production offcourse.

Where does it say Bat Out Of Hell on the Pandora's Box album? ;)

Wow that bit of balance quote shows how far out of control this project got from the record company, to Desmond, to the accounting people. No wonder Meat is not happy with it. Interesting that he now agrees with the fans that he originally didn't. It had to have been a bad experience for him.

To be fair, I would think reviews and sales might well have helped bring him around to the latter viewpoint. There are meat albums I actively dislike, albums I adore, a few jims songs I hate, many I will take to my grave. One thing Meatloaf as a singer and performer will never be is simply bland. Same with jim as a writer and producer. The problem with bat 3 was it was just sort of.... indifferent and didnt ever come close to maximising the potential of the material or Meat's delivery. Any BOOH record should never be bland. "Monster"was just that - a big budget generic rock record which missed it's purpose completely. An insult to it's own heritage.
The ability of child to take Meat loaf singing steinman and make it sound like just another corporate rock abum is quite a feat in itself.
At least "hang cool" took risks and can be respected for that.

Bat 1 and 2 were all about taking risks and pulling them off with great aplomb. Steinmans vision was lacking on "monster" and I consider it a sequel only in name personally.

If queen can make "made in heaven" after Freddie died with canned vocals and a cohesive vision then I'm sorry but I don't buy the "Jim is sick" argument as to why we can't have a fitting conclusion to the booh saga in the fullness of time - if the will is there obviously.

To be fair, I would think reviews and sales might well have helped bring him around to the latter viewpoint. There are meat albums I actively dislike, albums I adore, a few jims songs I hate, many I will take to my grave. One thing Meatloaf as a singer and performer will never be is simply bland. Same with jim as a writer and producer. The problem with bat 3 was it was just sort of "meh...." and didnt ever come close to maximising the potential of the material or Meat's delivery. Any BOOH record should never be bland. "Monster"was just that - a big budget generic rock record which missed it's purpose completely. An insult to it's own heritage.
The ability of child to take Meat loaf singing steinman and make it sound like just another corporate rock abum is quite a feat in itself.
At least "hang cool" took risks and can be respected for that.

Bat 1 and 2 were all about taking risks and pulling them off with great aplomb. Steinmans vision was lacking on "monster" and I consider it a sequel only in name personally.

If queen can make "made in heaven" after Freddie died with song snippetd and canned vocals and a cohesive vision then I'm sorry but I don't buy the "Jim is sick" argument as to why we can't have a fitting conclusion to the booh saga in the fullness of time - if the will is there obviously.

The problem seems to be that the desire clearly wasn't there, for whatever reason though quite which party is to blame for that is less obvious from an outsiders point of view.
That doesn't mitigate the disappointment though, even now from a personal perspective.

Vocals sound great
 

"I swore after what Desmond did to the vocals , I would never let that happen again. There are better Live versions off that album than there were on that album."

I really dont understand what he means. I think the vocals sound great. Every note and the timing is perfect and to my ears it sounds very emotional too.
For me - his best vocals since the 70s/early 80s.

I like the whole album except "If god could talk".

Although I do like TMIL as a MEAT LOAF album (find your own subtext 'here'), I can't agree that the vocals are comparable to, let alone better than, BAT 2. And that's not to say that TMIL is a vocally 'bad' record -- far from it!

I think to Meat it is too good a vocal, as in a perfect paint by numbers rather than his sometimes strained emotional vocal. If you listen to his Bad For Good from Bat 4 against either Jim's version or Meat's own version from '88 there is no comparison. I remember Jim commenting on the Bat 3 version that it was the little things that were missing like the growl (Jim does it on the last "you'll never hide away from me") where the vocal on Bat 3 is very good but also very plain. I think that was Meat's issue with it. For me the only song on there that came close was Land of The Pig and Cry To Heaven.

Yeah you're right with BAT2 - Specially in 1993 there were much more recording limitations with less effects and protools was in the early stages.

Listen to the 88 Version for the first time on youtube right now. Sounds awesome! But if you think about meats age in 2006....this version is stunning too!