Meat's song writers Diana Warren & Desmond Child

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

Honestly, I think most of the general public have no clue who Steinman is, even though they do know his songs.

In Meat's case, I think it's more of an association with BOOH than with Steinman specifically.

Meh not sure about that. I think he is better known than most song writers where the artist is not writing the songs themselves.

Especially in Europe I get the impression he seems well known and remembered by casual music lovers because of "Total Eclipse of the heart". UK perhaps more Bat, AFL and Dead Ringer for Love

[renegadeangel]

Originally Posted by JennaG

Sorry, that was my mistake. I guess I misinterpreted you when you said:



Your use of the term 'anyone' and the rest of the sentence that follows, implied to me that you were referring to people here as much as other people.



To be honest, I don't actually believe that most of them really care either. As far as they're concerned, they buy an album to hear Meat Loaf singing some really great songs. They don't put a second thought into who wrote it.

The people here are the diehard fans and love Meat and will always support him. I'm thinking more in terms of the average person when I say anyone.
And I do agree with you to a point that it is the song that Meat sings that makes people take note.
But it seems that no real publicity effort by Meat's label exists unless Steinman is involved. Proven track record in the eyes of the record companies when they team up.
MATLAF
BA
BBIS
are barely on the radar anymore expect to the diehard fans. Even in concert it is extremely rare to hear Meat perform one of the songs from these albums as people want to hear BAT and BAT 2 and whatever he has recently released.
CHSIB
HCTB
HIAHB
will unfortunately end up going the same way.
This is too bad cause out of the six albums there are some really good songs.

[TheDoode]

Jim has had 18 number one songs, which is no small thing.

The 'who knows Jim Steinman' debate is futile because it entirely depends on your social circle. As a writer and a producer, he's definitely well known. In the eyes of the general British public? More so than most. But again, it's demographic based. Does anyone under 21 really know who he is? Probably not, unless they're rock/metal fans (and now we're into the realms of subcultures). So - futile!

Meat Loaf sings great songs. Jim Steinman writes great songs. The most notable and successful (in terms of sales, chart position, and general public recognition) are always a collaboration of the two. Jim has had successes outside of his collaborations with Meat, and Meat has had successes outside of his collaborations with Jim (though maybe not to the same degree).

Bottom line: let's not forget how this whole thing started.

[AndrewG]

I really can't see the last album being called Meat Loaf & Jim Steinman if the album has 7 songs by other writers. But I hope I'm proven wrong.

[JennaG]

Originally Posted by renegadeangel

Even in concert it is extremely rare to hear Meat perform one of the songs from these albums as people want to hear BAT and BAT 2 and whatever he has recently released.

Well they're the ones losing out on the opportunity to enjoy new music. On the last tour only ONE song from HIAH was performed which I thought was such a shame because there was probably a fair few people in that audience who will never hear anything else from what I believe was a good album. Do they care? I very much doubt it because after all they're not going to miss what they don't know.

I think that ALL of Meat Loaf's albums should have a fair shot at getting the support from record companies regardless of who wrote the songs. After all, shouldn't it be based on merit? If they're only interested in Jim Steinman then why bother with the others at all? After all that's what 'everyone' wants isn't it?

[AndrewG]

Face it this type of music as far as the record industry goes is pretty much dead. Chrissie Hynde said it exactly that in an interview I saw this week. Why would any record company invest a lot? It's quite obvious when artists such as U2 give away complete albums that there is no more money to be made here. Use it for a catalyst to tour or for the hard core fans. Reaching new ones I think is almost impossible now. Unless you are a female singer with a big ass and that's constantly on display and sing about sex and cocaine you stand no chance anymore. Regardless of Steinman being involved surely.

[TheDoode]

Ask Bono how much Apple gave him for that album, then tell me there's no money to be made from music anymore! (I do get your point though Andrew).

[Evil One]

Money that Bono will no doubt squirrel away in offshore accounts, while begging those with nothing to give generously to charity.

[tonyloaf]

if people like Guy would stop buying mutiple copies of justin bieber then recored sales would make sense :)

[Vickip]

Originally Posted by tonyloaf

if people like Guy would stop buying mutiple copies of justin bieber then recored sales would make sense :)

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by TheDoode

Ask Bono how much Apple gave him for that album, then tell me there's no money to be made from music anymore! (I do get your point though Andrew).

The amount wasn't disclosed, but it's rumored to be 25-30 million dollars. Reaching new people is exactly what they are hoping to do by "giving away" the album to everyone.

[AndrewG]

I just read that apparently it was 100 million.

To automatically install that I find completely insane and I say this as an Apple enthusiast. Quite funny reading the Tweets "How do I uninstall this virus called U2?"

[stretch37]

I think it's great that the album was free for consumers, but it is still making the band money. That is amazing and it is the future - Money does not just have to come from existing conventional sources.

As far as being in people's libraries by default, well, perhaps they took it a little too far, and now Apple they will learn something. It's hard to tell. There's a media spin on the whole thing right now. I'd like to hear from all the young people who discovered U2 for the fist time from having it appear in their library, and it helped them through something in their life. perhaps saved a life.

Food for thought..

[JennaG]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

I just read that apparently it was 100 million.

To automatically install that I find completely insane and I say this as an Apple enthusiast. Quite funny reading the Tweets "How do I uninstall this virus called U2?"

I don't think it should have been automatically installed like it was and I think that there are going to be a lot of people who have been annoyed by the principle of it rather than consider it to be a way of introducing them to music that they might not have considered beforehand.

[AndrewG]

This talk reminds me of the free copy of HCTB at the 2010 Meat shows. Most know it's not my favourite album of his. But it was a rather superb and generous move by Meat I have to say. At least it was apt!!

[Evil One]

Didn't a large portion of them end up left on the floor?

[JennaG]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

This talk reminds me of the free copy of HCTB at the 2010 Meat shows. Most know it's not my favourite album of his. But it was a rather superb and generous move by Meat I have to say. At least it was apt!!

I thought that was a nice way for Meat to have introduced that album to people who may have previously been a bit unsure about whether to buy.

I think people would find it harder to object to a free physical copy of an album given to them at that artist's show than they would if he'd have forced it upon all users of a particular piece of software without warning.

Originally Posted by Evil One

Didn't a large portion of them end up left on the floor?

Actually I vaguely remember reading something like that.

It puzzles me a bit considering the fact that it's something that could have been sold on or given away if you didn't want it.

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

I just read that apparently it was 100 million.

To automatically install that I find completely insane and I say this as an Apple enthusiast. Quite funny reading the Tweets "How do I uninstall this virus called U2?"

It sounded that way at first, but if you read the press carefully, the 100 million figure also includes endorsements that could potentially amount to 100 million. I saw the first commercial yesterday. They were paid a blanket fee for the album.

Lol at the U2 virus!

Originally Posted by stretch37

I think it's great that the album was free for consumers, but it is still making the band money. That is amazing and it is the future - Money does not just have to come from existing conventional sources.

As far as being in people's libraries by default, well, perhaps they took it a little too far, and now Apple they will learn something. It's hard to tell.

Perhaps, but there are also people who will play it because it was there, but wouldn't have downloaded it otherwise. Word is their back catalog sales have been brisk since they did this, as well. The music business is changing, and artists have to change with it. A few people might also download iTunes in order to get the album, so there are potential new customers there for Apple as well.

Originally Posted by AndrewG

This talk reminds me of the free copy of HCTB at the 2010 Meat shows. Most know it's not my favourite album of his. But it was a rather superb and generous move by Meat I have to say. At least it was apt!!

Just my guess, but I'd bet the cost was built into the ticket price.

Originally Posted by JennaG

It puzzles me a bit considering the fact that it's something that could have been sold on or given away if you didn't want it.

People don't tend to value things as much when they don't pay for them, unfortunately.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Evil One

Didn't a large portion of them end up left on the floor?

I was at every show bar one, was in the front row, and always gather my stuff together, have a bit of a sit, and wait for the crush to leave. I don't leave until they chase me away by which time the auditorium is pretty empty. I saw NO CDs on the floor .. trust me, I'd have scarfed them up to sell for TPT if I'd seen any. So whatever the papers choose to spin, I don't believe this at all. At those arenas where there were people waiting outside when I emerged, plenty I saw were clutching their CDs.

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

Just my guess, but I'd bet the cost was built into the ticket price.

The ticket prices were pretty much in line with the previous tour, and as always at the low end of the spectrum for artists of Meat's calibre .. but the basic unit cost at source for a CD won't be that high anyway surely.

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by CarylB

The ticket prices were pretty much in line with the previous tour, and as always at the low end of the spectrum for artists of Meat's calibre .. but the basic unit cost at source for a CD won't be that high anyway surely.

Right, it wouldn't be retail price- probably not more than a few dollars each.

[Evil Ernie]

Originally Posted by JennaG

It puzzles me a bit considering the fact that it's something that could have been sold on or given away if you didn't want it.

It's because people don't want CD's any more. He would have been better off to offer a free digital copy, which would have cost NOTHING and wouldn't have looked so bad when they were just LEFT there. Giving away the CD was just a couple of shades away from giving away cassettes.

People who do buy CD's, stop it. Unless you wanna be like those lonely people who like to hold onto their 8-Track and Tape collection.

[Monstro]

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

People who do buy CD's, stop it. Unless you wanna be like those lonely people who like to hold onto their 8-Track and Tape collection.

I buy CD's (also have vinyl and cassettes).

Come the day I can't buy a hard version of an album I want I'll be pissed off as there are times when it's nice to listen to something as it was meant to be heard, not compressed to hell.





And I ain't lonely

[Evil Ernie]

Originally Posted by Monstro

I buy CD's (also have vinyl and cassettes).

Come the day I can't buy a hard version of an album I want I'll be pissed off as there are times when it's nice to listen to something as it was meant to be heard, not compressed to hell.

And I ain't lonely

I find that Apple Lossless is quite good.

Vinyl is different because it gives you a sound quality that you can't get anywhere else.

Digital Music has come a long way. This is coming from a guy who owned around 3000 CD's before I sold them all (with a few exceptions, ML being one of them).

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by Monstro

I buy CD's (also have vinyl and cassettes).

Come the day I can't buy a hard version of an album I want I'll be pissed off as there are times when it's nice to listen to something as it was meant to be heard, not compressed to hell.

CD's and even vinyl can still sound crap depending on the masters they're made from. The sad fact is, most albums these days are mastered to sound best on computers and iPods, since that's how most people listen to music these days.

Having said that, I still do buy CD's (and a limited amount of vinyl), though not as many as I used to. I like having a physical product which is a guaranteed backup to a digital file.

[TheDoode]

Usually there's a different mastering process for vinyl over CD/digital :)