mlukfc.com Forums - Meat's song writers Diana Warren & Desmond Child

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greg	09 Sep 2014 15:29

Meat's song writers Diana Warren & Desmond Child

which one me theses writer. you would rather have write meat songs for . meat i can't choose. who would you have ???

CarylB

09 Sep 2014 16:07

I think we can guess at what Meat's answer would be ;) He's worked with Diane more recently, and has no wish to work with Desmond again

AndrewG

09 Sep 2014 16:27

Desmond Child gave Meat some of his best songs over the last decade in my opinion. It's a shame he is remembered with so much negativity and many fans seem to follow that course as well in my opinion. When I think Meat I like to think of songs such as Blind as a Bat / Alive not songs in which he swears or were written for a bunch of other unspecific people originally. :-(

CarylB

09 Sep 2014 19:47

I loved both those songs too .. and don't know Child and have no negative feelings towards him whatsoever .. but I still stand by my reply to Greg :-)

greg	10 Sep 2014 09:28

Childs has worked with so many rock bands . I Fo me. Desmonds . Feel a lot more rock than warren

Evil Ernie

10 Sep 2014 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarylB (Post 605839)

I think we can guess at what Meat's answer would be ;) He's worked with Diane more recently, and has no wish to work with Desmond again

When was the last Diane Warren song? The last one I recall was 'What About Love'. DC co-wrote 'Elvis in Vegas' from HCTB, so ML has worked with him more recently.

Or are we talking a track from the new album?

renegadeangel

11 Sep 2014 02:58

Not trying to really start anything but the only big time success Meat has ever had has been with one songwriter
Steinman
Everything else and with all due respect to the other writers pales in comparison. Theirs is the perfect partnership
Steinman writes what only Meat can give true life to through his interpretation and performance,

Evil Ernie

11 Sep 2014 04:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by renegadeangel (Post 605892)

This is so true it hurts.

IMO Jim should have written ML 6+ full length albums and been consistently relevant for years, but alas that is not the way things turned out (and who's to say conclusively that they would have been a success, who knows?).

This is with all due respect to every song writer and contributor that he has ever had. It's just that Jim is the King, and you can't top the king without becoming the King yourself.

CarylB

11 Sep 2014 04:20

Doesn't for me .. I simply love some of the songs from other composers that Meat has recorded .. in particular Did I Say That, which to me is one of the best he's done. Horses for courses I guess

Mr. Happy

11 Sep 2014 06:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie (Post 605891)

When was the last Diane Warren song? The last one I recall was 'What About Love'. DC co-wrote 'Elvis in Vegas' from HCTB, so ML has worked with him more recently.

He didn't really work with Child on Elvis on Vegas, though. Child wrote that with Bon Jovi in the early 2000s and it was literally given to Meat after the fact. Saying they worked together on that isn't entirely accurate.

Technicalities, but yeah :lol:

The last time Meat would have worked with either Warren or Child would have been Warren on Hang Cool Teddy Bear. If I'm remembering correctly, wasn't she meant to have a song on the album that never showed up? There was a YouTube video with her and everything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarylB (Post 605894)

Doesn't for me .. I simply love some of the songs from other composers that Meat has recorded .. in particular Did I Say That, which to me is one of the best he's done. Horses for courses I guess

James Michael is one of the best songwriters Meat has ever worked with. I would take a full album by him as readily as I would a full album by Jim :up:

JennaG

11 Sep 2014 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarylB (Post 605894)

Doesn't for me .. I simply love some of the songs from other composers that Meat has recorded.

Me too. Hell In A Handbasket remains to be my favourite album and there are several songs by other songwriters that I prefer to to some of Steinman's songs. Of course, there are some Steinman songs that I enjoy but I personally wouldn't be any more excited with an album of Steinman songs than I would be with an album of songs by other writers.

I guess it's a case of each to their own. ;)

tonyloaf

11 Sep 2014 08:53

i dont really think you can compare a Meat/Steinman album to any other Meat has done, they are all good but different in alot of ways to Meat/Steinman songs.

CarylB

11 Sep 2014 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Happy (Post 605895)

The last time Meat would have worked with either Warren or Child would have been Warren on Hang Cool Teddy Bear. If I'm remembering correctly, wasn't she meant to have a song on the album that never showed up? There was a YouTube video with her and everything.

That's what I was referring to, yes :) Seen together, seemed to be working, and clearly on good terms

Quote:

James Michael is one of the best songwriters Meat has ever worked with. I would take a full album by him as readily as I would a full album by Jim :up:

Me too ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonyloaf (Post 605898)

i dont really think you can compare a Meat/Steinman album to any other Meat has done

Nor do I .. it seems a pointless and to be honest rather tiring exercise, so I didn't ;)

I simply don't agree that only when singing Steinman compositions is Meat a great performer. It seems as diminishing to say this as it would be to say that Steinman's songs can only be great songs if Meat sings them. Of course in combination we expect them to be great, but that should not take anything from each as individuals, great in their own right.

I am really looking forward to the new album with all the tracks Meat will deliver, more than I would be to one with 6 songs only .. but then I am a Meat fan, and for me he has a proven ability to select songs that I love to listen to, and listen to again and again.

renegadeangel

11 Sep 2014 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarylB (Post 605901)

That's what I was referring to, yes :) Seen together, seemed to be working, and clearly on good terms

Me too ;)

Nor do I .. it seems a pointless and to be honest rather tiring exercise, so I didn't ;)

I simply don't agree that only when singing Steinman compositions is Meat a great performer. It seems as diminishing to say this as it would be to say that Steinman's songs can only be great songs if Meat sings them. Of course in combination we expect them to be great, but that should not take anything from each as individuals, great in their own right.

Interesting. From DEADRINGER to BAT 2 people generally considered Meat to be a footnote in rock history. I personally enjoyed every album he put out but if you look at his success rate, it has always been with Steinman.
Fair or not the record companies never gave him his due with the proper backing unless Steinman was involved. The proof again will be there when the new album comes out.
My guess is that it will have so much more publicity than any album Meat has released since BAT 3

I am really looking forward to the new album with all the tracks Meat will deliver, more than I would be to one with 6 songs only .. but then I am a Meat fan, and for me he has a proven ability to select songs that I love to listen to, and listen to again and again.

I feel the same way about that and the same way with other artists. But that is the reserved place for the truly diehard fan. The casual fan doesn't own HCTB or HIAHB or even CHSIB but they do have BAT 1 2 and 3
And the casual fans outnumber the diehards so the record companies are looking at attracting the casual fans moreso than the diehards as they already have them

Evil One

11 Sep 2014 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by renegadeangel (Post 605905)

The casual fan doesn't own HCTB or HIAHB or even CHSIB but they do have BAT 1 2 and 3

I suspect more casual fans own Dead Ringer and Welcome To The Neighbourhood than Bat 3.

CarylB

11 Sep 2014 16:23

Quote:

Interesting. From DEADRINGER to BAT 2 people generally considered Meat to be a footnote in rock history. I personally enjoyed every album he put out but if you look at his success rate, it has always been with Steinman.

Guess it depends where you live. Meat was never a "footnote" here .. and Dead Ringer in particular was very successful in commercial terms, and I agree with Evil on DR and Welcome, although he too is from the UK, so perhaps it's truer here.

Even if you judge success purely by sales, all Meat's albums have sold well here, although he has carried almost a millstone in terms of BOOH which shouldn't be the yardstick as it was something so exceptional set against most rock albums, let alone Meat's. He has always had a record company prepared to back an album (whoever wrote the songs) .. his first yardstick, and one he has always achieved over many years and despite huge changes in the music industry. That equates with success in my book ;)

Anyway .. I have responded that I am looking forward to the new album, am pleased there will be many songs on it, do not consider anything Meat records penned by other great writers than Steinman are somehow lesser, and am getting off the merry-go-round ;)

AndrewG

11 Sep 2014 16:32

Several (non-Steinman) tracks on CHSIB and Bat 3 sounded more Steinmany to me than the Steinman ones we did get on Bat 3. :?
CHSIB
DIST
Alive
Blind as a Bat
What about love?
I think these are my 5 favourite Meat songs since VBO 1998. + Prize Fight Lover.
Even Monster is Loose was pretty cool I thought. No one ever seems to mention it anymore.

Evil Ernie

11 Sep 2014 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewG (Post 605916)

I hear what you're saying, and I agree with the Jim songs not sounding as 'jim' as they could, but IMO the ONLY song to ape Jim and do a good job was 'I'd Lie For You.'

I like the other stuff that ML does, but I will never mistake almost any of it as being written by Jim. The song mentioned above was the only instance I can think of me thinking it was him.

JennaG

11 Sep 2014 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie (Post 605924)

I like the other stuff that ML does, but I will never mistake almost any of it as being written by Jim.

I don't think I've ever really mistaken any non-Steinman song to have been written by Steinman but then again I don't tend to put much thought into who writes songs on a whole.

renegadeangel

11 Sep 2014 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewG (Post 605916)

Again proves the point. If you can't have Steinman try to get someone to write like Steinman.
Meat has always been big in Europe and Caryl is correct with DEADRINGER being very well received. Interesting that Steinman wrote it and did most of the production on it.
Meat has tried very hard and I give him alot of credit for his efforts with CHSIB, HCTB and HIAHB as I too like those albums. And if the record companies ever gave it the right push they all could have been better sellers than they were.
But the record companies look at the track record of Meat's albums without Steinman's input or very little of and the sales aren't there
Sure sales aren't everything. But sales mean hits and that is what every artist surely wants is the recognition of their efforts.
Meat definitely deserves this.
If anyone really thinks that Meat is going to do better without Steinman, checkout how emotional he was on his last european tour speaking about Jim.
Meat really wants to have Steinman's songs again.

JennaG

12 Sep 2014 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by renegadeangel (Post 605935)

If anyone really thinks that Meat is going to do better without Steinman, checkout how emotional he was on his last european tour speaking about Jim. Meat really wants to have Steinman's songs again.

I don't think anyone in this thread has suggested that Meat Loaf will do BETTER without Steinman just that they enjoy the work of other songwriters too.

renegadeangel

12 Sep 2014 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by JennaG (Post 605937)

I don't think anyone in this thread has suggested that Meat Loaf will do BETTER without Steinman just that they enjoy the work of other songwriters too.

Never said they did. My point was more to do with the lack of support by the record companies and the fact that the general public identify more with Meat and his Steinman catalogue then his other works

Julie in the rv mirror

12 Sep 2014 02:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by renegadeangel (Post 605938)

Honestly, I think most of the general public have no clue who Steinman is, even though they do know his songs.

In Meat's case, I think it's more of an association with BOOH than with Steinman specifically.

Evil Ernie

12 Sep 2014 03:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror (Post 605939)

The general public doesn't care about filler songs either. We as ML/Steinman fans do. I personally really identify with Jim's style, so I can generally tell.

It matters to me dammit!!

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/BvTNyKIGXiI/0.jpg

JennaG

12 Sep 2014 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by renegadeangel (Post 605938)

Never said they did.

Sorry, that was my mistake. I guess I misinterpreted you when you said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by renegadeangel (Post 605935)

If anyone really thinks that Meat is going to do better without Steinman, checkout how emotional he was on his last european tour speaking about Jim.

Your use of the term 'anyone' and the rest of the sentence that follows, implied to me that you were referring to people here as much as other people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror (Post 605939)

Honestly, I think most of the general public have no clue who Steinman is, even though they do know his songs.

To be honest, I don't actually believe that most of them really care either. As far as they're concerned, they buy an album to hear Meat Loaf singing some really great songs. They don't put a second thought into who wrote it.

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