Meat's song writers Diana Warren & Desmond Child

[greg]

which one me theses writer. you would rather have write meat songs for . meat i can't choose. who would you have ???

[CarylB]

I think we can guess at what Meat's answer would be He's worked with Diane more recently, and has no wish to work with Desmond again

[AndrewG]

Desmond Child gave Meat some of his best songs over the last decade in my opinion. It's a shame he is remembered with so much negativity and many fans seem to follow that course as well in my opinion. When I think Meat I like to think of songs such as Blind as a Bat / Alive not songs in which he swears or were written for a bunch of other unspecific people originally.

[CarylB]

I loved both those songs too .. and don't know Child and have no negative feelings towards him whatsoever .. but I still stand by my reply to Greg

[greg]

Childs has worked with so many rock bands . I Fo me. Desmonds . Feel a lot more rock than warren

[Evil Ernie]

Originally Posted by CarylB

I think we can guess at what Meat's answer would be He's worked with Diane more recently, and has no wish to work with Desmond again

When was the last Diane Warren song? The last one I recall was 'What About Love'. DC co-wrote 'Elvis in Vegas' from HCTB, so ML has worked with him more recently.

Or are we talking a track from the new album?

[renegadeangel]

Not trying to really start anything but the only big time success Meat has ever had has been with one songwriter
Steinman
Everything else and with all due respect to the other writers pales in comparison. Theirs is the perfect partnership
Steinman writes what only Meat can give true life to through his interpretation and performance,

[Evil Ernie]

Originally Posted by renegadeangel

Not trying to really start anything but the only big time success Meat has ever had has been with one songwriter
Steinman
Everything else and with all due respect to the other writers pales in comparison. Theirs is the perfect partnership
Steinman writes what only Meat can give true life to through his interpretation and performance,

This is so true it hurts.

IMO Jim should have written ML 6+ full length albums and been consistently relevant for years, but alas that is not the way things turned out (and who's to say conclusively that they would have been a success, who knows?).

This is with all due respect to every song writer and contributor that he has ever had. It's just that Jim is the King, and you can't top the king without becoming the King yourself.

[CarylB]

Doesn't for me .. I simply love some of the songs from other composers that Meat has recorded .. in particular Did I Say That, which to me is one of the best he's done. Horses for courses I guess

[Mr. Happy]

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

When was the last Diane Warren song? The last one I recall was 'What About Love'. DC co-wrote 'Elvis in Vegas' from HCTB, so ML has worked with him more recently.

He didn't really work with Child on Elvis on Vegas, though. Child wrote that with Bon Jovi in the early 2000s and it was literally given to Meat after the fact. Saying they worked together on that isn't entirely accurate.

Technicalities, but yeah

The last time Meat would have worked with either Warren or Child would have been Warren on Hang Cool Teddy Bear. If I'm remembering correctly, wasn't she meant to have a song on the album that never showed up? There was a YouTube video with her and everything.

Originally Posted by CarylB

Doesn't for me .. I simply love some of the songs from other composers that Meat has recorded .. in particular Did I Say That, which to me is one of the best he's done. Horses for courses I guess

James Michael is one of the best songwriters Meat has ever worked with. I would take a full album by him as readily as I would a full album by Jim

[JennaG]

Originally Posted by CarylB

Doesn't for me .. I simply love some of the songs from other composers that Meat has recorded.

Me too. Hell In A Handbasket remains to be my favourite album and there are several songs by other songwriters that I prefer to to some of Steinman's songs. Of course, there are some Steinman songs that I enjoy but I personally wouldn't be any more excited with an album of Steinman songs than I would be with an album of songs by other writers.

I guess it's a case of each to their own.

[tonyloaf]

i dont really think you can compare a Meat/Steinman album to any other Meat has done, they are all good but different in alot of ways to Meat/Steinman songs.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Mr. Happy

The last time Meat would have worked with either Warren or Child would have been Warren on Hang Cool Teddy Bear. If I'm remembering correctly, wasn't she meant to have a song on the album that never showed up? There was a YouTube video with her and everything.

That's what I was referring to, yes :) Seen together, seemed to be working, and clearly on good terms

James Michael is one of the best songwriters Meat has ever worked with. I would take a full album by him as readily as I would a full album by Jim

Me too

Originally Posted by tonyloaf

i dont really think you can compare a Meat/Steinman album to any other Meat has done

Nor do I .. it seems a pointless and to be honest rather tiring exercise, so I didn't

I simply don't agree that only when singing Steinman compositions is Meat a great performer. It seems as diminishing to say this as it would be to say that Steinman's songs can only be great songs if Meat sings them. Of course in combination we expect them to be great, but that should not take anything from each as individuals, great in their own right.

I am really looking forward to the new album with all the tracks Meat will deliver, more than I would be to one with 6 songs only .. but then I am a Meat fan, and for me he has a proven ability to select songs that I love to listen to, and listen to again and again.

[renegadeangel]

Originally Posted by CarylB

That's what I was referring to, yes :) Seen together, seemed to be working, and clearly on good terms



Me too



Nor do I .. it seems a pointless and to be honest rather tiring exercise, so I didn't

I simply don't agree that only when singing Steinman compositions is Meat a great performer. It seems as diminishing to say this as it would be to say that Steinman's songs can only be great songs if Meat sings them. Of course in combination we expect them to be great, but that should not take anything from each as individuals, great in their own right.

Interesting. From DEADRINGER to BAT 2 people generally considered Meat to be a footnote in rock history. I personally enjoyed every album he put out but if you look at his success rate, it has always been with Steinman.
Fair or not the record companies never gave him his due with the proper backing unless Steinman was involved. The proof again will be there when the new album comes out.
My guess is that it will have so much more publicity than any album Meat has released since BAT 3

I am really looking forward to the new album with all the tracks Meat will deliver, more than I would be to one with 6 songs only .. but then I am a Meat fan, and for me he has a proven ability to select songs that I love to listen to, and listen to again and again.

I feel the same way about that and the same way with other artists. But that is the reserved place for the truly diehard fan. The casual fan doesn't own HCTB or HIAHB or even CHSIB but they do have BAT 1 2 and 3
And the casual fans outnumber the diehards so the record companies are looking at attracting the casual fans moreso than the diehards as they already have them

[Evil One]

Originally Posted by renegadeangel

The casual fan doesn't own HCTB or HIAHB or even CHSIB but they do have BAT 1 2 and 3

I suspect more casual fans own Dead Ringer and Welcome To The Neighbourhood than Bat 3.

[CarylB]

Interesting. From DEADRINGER to BAT 2 people generally considered Meat to be a footnote in rock history. I personally enjoyed every album he put out but if you look at his success rate, it has always been with Steinman.

Guess it depends where you live. Meat was never a "footnote" here .. and Dead Ringer in particular was very successful in commercial terms, and I agree with Evil on DR and Welcome, although he too is from the UK, so perhaps it's truer here.

Even if you judge success purely by sales, all Meat's albums have sold well here, although he has carried almost a millstone in terms of BOOH which shouldn't be the yardstick as it was something so exceptional set against most rock albums, let alone Meat's. He has always had a record company prepared to back an album (whoever wrote the songs) .. his first yardstick, and one he has always achieved over many years and despite huge changes in the music industry. That equates with success in my book

Anyway .. I have responded that I am looking forward to the new album, am pleased there will be many songs on it, do not consider anything Meat records penned by other great writers than Steinman are somehow lesser, and am getting off the merry-go-round

[AndrewG]

Several (non-Steinman) tracks on CHSIB and Bat 3 sounded more Steinmany to me than the Steinman ones we did get on Bat 3.
CHSIB
DIST
Alive
Blind as a Bat
What about love?
I think these are my 5 favourite Meat songs since VBO 1998. + Prize Fight Lover.
Even Monster is Loose was pretty cool I thought. No one ever seems to mention it anymore.

[Evil Ernie]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Several (non-Steinman) tracks on CHSIB and Bat 3 sounded more Steinmany to me than the Steinman ones we did get on Bat 3.
CHSIB
DIST
Alive
Blind as a Bat
What about love?
I think these are my 5 favourite Meat songs since VBO 1998. + Prize Fight Lover.
Even Monster is Loose was pretty cool I thought. No one ever seems to mention it anymore.

I hear what you're saying, and I agree with the Jim songs not sounding as 'jim' as they could, but IMO the ONLY song to ape Jim and do a good job was 'I'd Lie For You.'

I like the other stuff that ML does, but I will never mistake almost any of it as being written by Jim. The song mentioned above was the only instance I can think of me thinking it was him.

[JennaG]

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

I like the other stuff that ML does, but I will never mistake almost any of it as being written by Jim.

I don't think I've ever really mistaken any non-Steinman song to have been written by Steinman but then again I don't tend to put much thought into who writes songs on a whole.

[renegadeangel]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Several (non-Steinman) tracks on CHSIB and Bat 3 sounded more Steinmany to me than the Steinman ones we did get on Bat 3.
CHSIB
DIST
Alive
Blind as a Bat
What about love?
I think these are my 5 favourite Meat songs since VBO 1998. + Prize Fight Lover.
Even Monster is Loose was pretty cool I thought. No one ever seems to mention it anymore.

Again proves the point. If you can't have Steinman try to get someone to write like Steinman.
Meat has always been big in Europe and Caryl is correct with DEADRINGER being very well received. Interesting that Steinman wrote it and did most of the production on it.
Meat has tried very hard and I give him alot of credit for his efforts with CHSIB, HCTB and HIAHB as I too like those albums. And if the record companies ever gave it the right push they all could have been better sellers than they were.
But the record companies look at the track record of Meat's albums without Steinman's input or very little of and the sales aren't there
Sure sales aren't everything. But sales mean hits and that is what every artist surely wants is the recognition of their efforts.
Meat definitely deserves this.
If anyone really thinks that Meat is going to do better without Steinman, checkout how emotional he was on his last european tour speaking about Jim.
Meat really wants to have Steinman's songs again.

[JennaG]

Originally Posted by renegadeangel

If anyone really thinks that Meat is going to do better without Steinman, checkout how emotional he was on his last european tour speaking about Jim. Meat really wants to have Steinman's songs again.

I don't think anyone in this thread has suggested that Meat Loaf will do BETTER without Steinman just that they enjoy the work of other songwriters too.

[renegadeangel]

Originally Posted by JennaG

I don't think anyone in this thread has suggested that Meat Loaf will do BETTER without Steinman just that they enjoy the work of other songwriters too.

Never said they did. My point was more to do with the lack of support by the record companies and the fact that the general public identify more with Meat and his Steinman catalogue then his other works

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by renegadeangel

Never said they did. My point was more to do with the lack of support by the record companies and the fact that the general public identify more with Meat and his Steinman catalogue then his other works

Honestly, I think most of the general public have no clue who Steinman is, even though they do know his songs.

In Meat's case, I think it's more of an association with BOOH than with Steinman specifically.

[Evil Ernie]

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

Honestly, I think most of the general public have no clue who Steinman is, even though they do know his songs.

In Meat's case, I think it's more of an association with BOOH than with Steinman specifically.

The general public doesn't care about filler songs either. We as ML/Steinman fans do. I personally really identify with Jim's style, so I can generally tell.

It matters to me dammit!!

[JennaG]

Originally Posted by renegadeangel

Never said they did.

Sorry, that was my mistake. I guess I misinterpreted you when you said:

Originally Posted by renegadeangel

If anyone really thinks that Meat is going to do better without Steinman, checkout how emotional he was on his last european tour speaking about Jim.

Your use of the term 'anyone' and the rest of the sentence that follows, implied to me that you were referring to people here as much as other people.

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

Honestly, I think most of the general public have no clue who Steinman is, even though they do know his songs.

To be honest, I don't actually believe that most of them really care either. As far as they're concerned, they buy an album to hear Meat Loaf singing some really great songs. They don't put a second thought into who wrote it.