Patti no longer with the NLE

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by LucyK!

That's not gone well, huh...

Why?
No fingers pointed, no disgust expressed.

[LucyK!]

Disgust no, but if you're flabbergasted at the thought that Patti's email was the first she knew of the termination then the implication is that she's received several others, and we're not meant to be pointing fingers or speculating as to how she was dismissed.

To be honest, if the thread is going to be edited to within an inch of its life then there's very little point in keeping it open.

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by LucyK!

Disgust no, but if you're flabbergasted at the thought that Patti's email was the first she knew of the termination then the implication is that she's received several others, and we're not meant to be pointing fingers or speculating as to how she was dismissed.

To be honest, if the thread is going to be edited to within an inch of its life then there's very little point in keeping it open.

The implication is that I have no idea how many times this was discussed by Meat and Patti, but i'd personally be surprised if the email in question was the first.

Speculative opinion? Yes.

Disrespectful or finger pointing at Meat or Patti? I hardly think so.

But if you think the word flabbergasted is a little strong, i'll delete it

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

.... i'd personally be surprised if the email in question was the first.

I would too. In fact I'd probably say my flabber would be a tad gasted I cannot imagine that nothing was discussed or referred to beforehand, and you're right that certain things needs contractually to be put in writing. I don't take what you said as disrespectful or finger pointing at either party.

For me the biggest fact is that we don't know all the facts, and I don't see why we should expect to. Anything said by way of explanation would I think be argued or construed as disloyal or at best unkind/unfair. It's a private matter, however much any of us feels we care about either or both people involved, and is better kept private.

And I agree, any form of announcement would simply have brought all this forward 3 weeks, or by whatever time it was made.

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by CarylB

I don't take what you said as disrespectful or finger pointing at either party.

And it certainly wasn't my intention.
I have enormous respect and love for both Patti and Meat, and I would be horrified if either of them found something offensive in my words.

[The Flying Mouse]

Stretch's post moved here.

Think it's best moved to it's own thread rather than being discussed here

[stretch37]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

Stretch's post moved here.

Think it's best moved to it's own thread rather than being discussed here

I was thinking the same Thanks Mouse

[Adje]

Ough,

I guess it's fingerpointing but Mouse, don't ever consider a job as an editor... And I don't mean that in a funny way.

[Wario]

wow.... just wow. Just delete this thread.

[Sebastian.]

Not a good idea to read this thread after 12 hours of plane travel. My brain hurts.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Sebastian.

Not a good idea to read this thread after 12 hours of plane travel. My brain hurts.

But you've arrived safely

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by Adje

Ough,

I guess it's fingerpointing but Mouse, don't ever consider a job as an editor... And I don't mean that in a funny way.

Sorry you don't like the edit.
I had to get the machete out at times

When it comes to an edit of a long thread with long posts, it's a bit like taking an empty glass and pouring a random amount of water into it.
Ask for opinions and half the people will say you poured too much water.
The others will say not enough.
Some folks on both sides will say you spilt some and it's a bit messy.

Originally Posted by Wario

wow.... just wow. Just delete this thread.

Did I spill the water?

Originally Posted by Sebastian.

Not a good idea to read this thread after 12 hours of plane travel. My brain hurts.

The unedited version could have lasted you the whole trip.

[hairyone]

I wouldn't normally get involved in a thread of this nature but I feel I must (I have a feeling I may lose some friends in the next 30 seconds!).

Whatever the reasons, whatever the facts - my view is quite simple - without Patti the last two shows I have seen Meat in would not have been acceptable.

We all love the legend that is Meat but it would be blind loyalty to not recognise that the vocals in 2013 are the not the same as the vocals recorded 36 years ago for example.

It would be unfair to say Patti carried the show, but there can be no doubt that her performance in particular meant that the more casual person perhaps coming to their first ever Meat show heard vocals which meant a great show took place.

Now I didn't see the shows this weekend so I cannot say how the new people were, but I am fairly confident they wouldn't be at the same level (and it would be unreasonable to expect that with such little rehearsal time).

However without that rapport which comes with 2 decades of working together it will lead to, in my view, a show which will not be at the level people would expect. Having a great band helps (and having people like Paul on guitar certainly helps) but I worry that without that rapport putting on an arena show will be very difficult.

That said the next engagement is clearly very different and it may be that actually that rapport isn't needed at all.

In conclusion

1 - We all love Meat
2 - We all love Patti
3 - We are all sad at the news
4 - None of us know what has (or hasn't) been said
5 - Some think that arena shows will be far worse without Patti

[Wario]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

Did I spill the water?
The unedited version could have lasted you the whole trip.

No its nothing personal Neil.
Just when a thread is edited this much .... its best to just either lock and/or delete it.

This is like the censored version of HCTB.

[duke knooby]

better title

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by duke knooby

better title

Yes .. I need no longer think an email from Marie Stopes is coming into my mailbox!

[loaferman61]

Wasn't this absolutely never ever going to happen again? Well, there you have it.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by hairyone

In conclusion

1 - We all love Meat
2 - We all love Patti
3 - We are all sad at the news
4 - None of us know what has (or hasn't) been said
5 - Some think that arena shows will be far worse without Patti

Can't see why you should lose friends from a reasoned and reasonable post

Wouldn't disagree with any of the above points. I'm not one of the some in Point 5, think it's early to judge that anyway, and I can't see me being at any arena shows for arguably a year, if at all. If they happen everyone can judge .. but I was at Newmarket and in no way could I say the show was far worse. Different, and of course I missed Patti, but it was still a great show.

Meat's never sounded like to me he did on the recording 36 years ago, and I would never suggest that. But his vocals delight me still, particularly since the vocal cyst healed. He was very strong vocally at Newmarket in my view. Actually I rather enjoyed seeing him really carrying the show vocally this time .. and the new vocalists were very good imo, and will only get better over time I think. The dramatic interpretation was good, particularly considering their newness to the songs, and I'd expect more ease and rapport to develop rapidly with time. I'm not suggesting anyone is likely to develop that intuitive closeness on stage that Patti had with Meat, but were any arena shows to be announced tomorrow I'd be there on-line when TM started selling, and based on Newmarket I'd look forward to going with the same excitement and pleasure I always do

And you're right .. those people in the audience who hadn't seen a Meat show, or hadn't for some years (and there were very many of them .. arguably a majority) simply experienced a great show of Meat's unique style. A huge number of first-timers or those who haven't seen him in years, have been coming and saying just that on his FB page.

[renegadeangel]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

I've requested R's permission to lock this thread down for 24 hours, which he's given.
I've been to work and let's say in depth moderation after too much rock n roll n brew isn't always the best idea

I had a brief convo with Meat last night, and he offered me some of the story (in confidence) of what's happened.
Needless to say i'm not at liberty to repeat anything that has been said in PM to any third party.

Speculation, although completely natural for the fans of an artist when there is a change in the wind, doesn't help much.
Especially when it manifests itself as anger and finger pointing.
Although Meat has given me his confidence (to an extent) i'm far from having a full understanding of the situation myself.
I want a chance to go over the thread and clean up some of the more angry speculative posts, as well as some of the in fighting.


As for deleted posts, I can confirm that Meat has in no way or form posted anything disrespectful on this forum towards Patti, but was a result of the speculation that has occurred on the thread.

I personally believe that Meat's reluctance to comment on the matter at this time is evidence that he has no wish to air dirty laundry in public and show Patti any disrespect by posting his side of the story (no dig intended towards Patti for posting on Facebook).

Weather he posts any explanation at some future time is completely up to him.

At this time i'm reminded of a quote I read on this forum that I belive has special significance.

There are three sides to each story.

One side.

The other side.

And the truth.

Will aim to have this thread up and running again by tomorrow evening.

Sorry but now your just adding fuel to the fire. Why bother to go on about a private conversation with Meat when of course it's just going to add to the speculation.
Doesn't matter who said what to whom or why. It's Meat's band and he is the boss. He can do what he likes.
Should probably have left the thread locked if you decided it needed to be cleaned with a machete.
I'm not having a go at you but in truth there is so much more interesting things to talk about than this...

[loaferman61]

Does anyone have a link to the interview where it was said that Patti was back to stay and the mistake of letting her go would not happen again? It was a legitimate public interview, so I do not feel out of line asking about it. I want to hear it straight from the source verbatim.

[Adje]

Originally Posted by loaferman61

Does anyone have a link to the interview where it was said that Patti was back to stay and the mistake of letting her go would not happen again? It was a legitimate public interview, so I do not feel out of line asking about it. I want to hear it straight from the source verbatim.

Sure dude Go to 1:05

YouTube Video

[lorenzoduke]

Originally Posted by loaferman61

Does anyone have a link to the interview where it was said that Patti was back to stay and the mistake of letting her go would not happen again? It was a legitimate public interview, so I do not feel out of line asking about it. I want to hear it straight from the source verbatim.

Let's face it, that promise/statement was probably meant sincerely at the time when things were going well. Other promises/statements to the members of this forum made during the last round of outbursts came to nothing too, as far as I'm aware. At a certain point you just have to take certain things with a pinch of salt. Priorities change.

[Mr. Happy]

No offense to the "he said this wouldn't happen again!" crowd, but to be fair that's a bit ridiculous. That was two years ago, who knows what's changed since then which might have led up to this?

Originally Posted by hairyone

Whatever the reasons, whatever the facts - my view is quite simple - without Patti the last two shows I have seen Meat in would not have been acceptable.

I don't disagree with you, but at the same time he does have two new vocalists to fill that role on stage, both who sound pretty amazing from what I've heard on YouTube. It's not like he's suddenly all alone in carrying the show.

Also, this has to be one of the most neutered thread in the history of this forum, if I'm not misremembering how many posts were in the first half of the thread pre-edit. Not passing judgement on it, just observing

[cujo]

Do you know what really p***** me off. While this thread was locked I started one inviting people to share their thanks to Patti, and it got 5 replies, whereas a good argument is up to 5 pages. No wonder I rarely bother to post here. FFS people are we hear to enjoy music and praise the people involved or is it just so we can over analyse and tear things apart.

[Monstro]

Originally Posted by cujo

Do you know what really p***** me off. While this thread was locked I started one inviting people to share their thanks to Patti, and it got 5 replies, whereas a good argument is up to 5 pages. No wonder I rarely bother to post here. FFS people are we hear to enjoy music and praise the people involved or is it just so we can over analyse and tear things apart.

Nothing gets folks going like an argument, easier to post a negative than a positive and posters get more replies to a negative post than a positive, sad innit.