Patti no longer with the NLE

[LucyK!]

I have a million and one thoughts on this, most of which I'm not prepared to post. The only thing I will say is that I think the situation could have been handled better.

Of course we were all going to find out eventually that Patti's gone, but personally I think people finding out when the band came on stage was the wrong way to do it. It didn't need to be a big announcement or anything major, just a quick line on here or on Facebook along the lines of "Patti will no longer be touring with Meat Loaf, we wish her well for the future. Now let us introduce Stacey and Lisa..." would have been enough. That way everyone could have had their inevitable discussions and debates, but Newmarket would have been a brand new day and we could have been ready to welcome the new girls.

As it went no-one knew, so Stacey and Lisa, who were not only under-rehearsed but understandably very nervous came on stage to a "welcome" of turning heads and mouths hitting the floor as the realisation hit that Patti was gone.

I'm not saying Meat owes an explanation for the reasoning behind Patti's departure, but knowing that she'd gone before Newmarket would have been nice.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Evil One

I suspect the comments section on Youtube would be considerably different for a start.

If you want to read the deranged ravings of a particular tribute act, yes. Otherwise you're really whistling in the wind.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by LucyK!

I
As it went no-one knew, so Stacey and Lisa, who were not only under-rehearsed but understandably very nervous came on stage to a "welcome" of turning heads and mouths hitting the floor as the realisation hit that Patti was gone.

Though I suspect not universally. Many of those behind me hadn't ever seen Meat, or not for years, and were not shocked at all.

I'm not saying Meat owes an explanation for the reasoning behind Patti's departure, but knowing that she'd gone before Newmarket would have been nice.

That I understand, I really do. I just remember that there may be more complicated issues around the situation for Meat, which may have swayed a decision. We just don't know. I have been in the position where the nice thing, the polite thing, would have been to say something or make some announcement, but I was unable to for a specific reason. It happens.

[Adje]

*Patti said she was terminated by email at the end of July (which is roughly 2,5 to 3,5 weeks before the shows in the UK = an average of 3 weeks) *FACT


* Meat stated here that the girls had one rehearsal. *FACT

- And despite the fact if you think they did or did not perform well (I give you that this is a personal opinion that I share with many people I have contact with - most of them attending one or both shows btw), Meat must have rememberd how Aspen got received. Or more so, how the response was on missing Patti on the band. And with this knowledge you don't throw them before the lions with one practice round. If you are a pro and if you care for them, the performance and the audience you take longer practice time. If you are a professional that cares for your performance you make sure you get more than 1 rehearsal in 3 weeks. It can be done, if you really want it to. Instead of working on the Vegas shows, work with them on these two shows as it's their first introduction to the crowd...

*No announcement was made *FACT

- And, even if it's his right to not do so, thus reactions like this (again, remember the first time they departed in 2007) were to be expected. Meat knew the emotions of those fans and yet decided to ignore them. It's a choise he made. But don't come 'boo-hooing' on here as if it's no big deal. It was a big deal then, so it's no surprise it still is a big deal.

[lorenzoduke]

Whatever Meat's issue with Patti is doesn't erase the contribution she has made to this band for two decades. Its interesting that he saw her return to the band as so important to the fans that it was worthy of announcing on national TV, yet her dismissal at a time when many were making plans for Vegas, wasn't worthy of so much as a Facebook update. I don't regard Patti as some interchangeable sidewoman, and any future shows will be depleted by her absence.

What a sour note for things to be ending on..

[LisaT]

My thoughts on the subject: From what we all know (which, of course, isn't everything), Meat seems to be a very nice person (most of the time!) and Patti seems to be a very nice person; I'm pretty sure (not 100%, because that isn't possible!) that there will be a logical explanation for this.

[LisaT]

Originally Posted by LisaT

My thoughts on the subject: From what we all know (which, of course, isn't everything), Meat seems to be a very nice person (most of the time!) and Patti seems to be a very nice person; I'm pretty sure (not 100%, because that isn't possible!) that there will be a logical explanation for this.

Ps. I've 'liked' and 'unliked' quite a few posts about this - that was when I was in an 'emotional' state! My above comment is made from my (now) logical state!

[Meat Loaf_fan]

Originally Posted by LisaT

... there will be a logical explanation for this.

I don't know if there will be explanation ...
So I have hypothesis: maybe there were quarrel about fewer concerts in the nearest future (= less money; or = less publicity)? Or maybe there were quarrel about new type of shows (Vegas)?


PS. This two hypothesis are only hypothesis.

[CarylB]

* The email Patti referred to. Would not the termination of any contract need some final confirmation, whether by snail mail, telex, fax or email? I have not seen the email, so do not know who sent it, nor what precisely it contained. It may have been a final confirmation of an agreement for all I know, or come at the end of a series of discussions. Perhaps you have seen it? To me it's a fact that needs a lot more surrounding it before I make a judgement

* Meat stated here that the girls had one rehearsal. Whether there was any possibility for longer rehearsal time I could not judge without more of the facts. I suggested some of the issues. My own view is that recruiting the right singers would be the priority, and the right singers could deliver to standard with limited rehearsal. The two chosen proved this to be the case imo. It is also my opinion that Meat and Stacy and Lisa ARE all pros. They carried it off successfully. How caNn we know whether in the timeframe there could have been more rehearsal time? I do not know enough facts about the commitments of everyone concerned etc Do you?

*No announcement was made. Not disputed. I merely said I do not know enough about the entire situation to deliver a judgement that one could or should have been made. I am sure Meat expected the kinds of posts that would be made. His world is a bit bigger and more complex than this forum. I do not know what else he had to weigh. Do you?

I take exception Adje to your comment "But don't come 'boo-hooing' on here as if it's no big deal." I have stayed calm, clear and remember that we have very limited knowledge of what has happened. Why that should be dismissed as "boo=hooing" defeats me. I have repeatedly said I understand people's disappointment, and that they feel hurt. As to whether that excuses anger, blame and condemnation of Meat, .. we clearly have different views.


Given the response from the thousands in the audiences at the racecourses (I was at one. I have spoken to others who were at Newbury) I do not think it was as big a deal to large numbers, arguably most, of them. They came to see a Meat Loaf show .. they got a damn fine one.

I don't think we can reach any mutual understanding or agreement.

[Yevonda]

With the idea that this is a Meat Loaf fan club I have a few questions.

1. Why are you making the assumption that Meat made this decision? This is business and there are many players and persons of interest in business decisions.

2. Why are you assuming that Meat sent the email? In the post Patti made (and now subsequently taken down) never referred to who sent the email.

3. Why are you assuming that Patti was hit with the news out of the blue and this was not something that had been discussed for some time?

4. Why are you acting as if this wasn't a difficult decision that needed to be made?

Meat and Patti worked together for 20+ years. Don't you think this decision hurt both Meat and Patti on a personal and professional level. Now what does Meat have to see when he comes onto a website that is suppose to show support for him, a load of negative comments. Instead of everyone being negative why don't we all stop attacking Meat and stop attacking fellow fans on this forum and just wait to see what happens. If a public announcement needs to be made it will be. Until then I don't understand why we can't take everyone's feelings and privacy into consideration.

[LucyK!]

Originally Posted by Yevonda

With the idea that this is a Meat Loaf fan club I have a few questions.

A debate that's been had a thousand times before and I'm sure will be done a thousand times again.

Speaking generally, yes this is a Meat Loaf fan club but that doesn't mean that its members will like and agree with everything that Meat does. I'd imagine that applies to every fanclub in the world because we're all human with different feelings and opinions about things.

With regards to the Patti issue specifically, I agree with the points you raise, we actually know very little and now that the new band is in action we're not likely to find out (certainly not any time soon, anyway).


At the end of the day this whole thing has happened, it's not changing and we, as fans, have two choices - we can accept what's happened (whether we agree with it or not) and stick around, or don't accept what's happened and leave.

[eddy<meat-loaf>rocky]

i think as fans we should accept what has happened and move on if you want to continue supporting meat loaf then that's up to you as an individual to make your mind up but as a reasons why it has happened is no of our business but when i first heard the news i was upset but felt i couldn't be angry at meatloaf as i love his music so much and now it has sunk in i wish patti all the best in what she dose next and also i wish meat loaf all the best and i will continue to support meat and the band and also patti too

[lorenzoduke]

1. I guess people like to credit Meat as having some say over who is in his own band and that if he had wanted to keep her around he would have acknowledged both his and our disappointment at being unable to do so.

2. I don't think anyone is assuming that - rather that the email will have been sent by someone acting on his behalf.

3. Because she said she was informed 3 weeks ago and has no history of lying to fans.

4. Who is acting like that? Difficult decision or not, deciding not to tell your paying audience that a key element of your show is gone and then replacing her with people who have only had one rehearsal seems to me to imply that we should treat the change as trivial. Many of us feel strongly otherwise and being told directly or indirectly that we shouldn't care or react isn't going to change that.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by LucyK!

At the end of the day this whole thing has happened, it's not changing and we, as fans, have two choices - we can accept what's happened (whether we agree with it or not) and stick around, or don't accept what's happened and leave.

Yes. I saw a fan asking today .. had Meat and Patti not met would people like Meat loaf any less than they do now? Like her, my answer is no .. this will not make me enjoy his music, his shows, his acting, anything any less. Could he have handled recent events any differently? I do not know anything like enough to answer that fairly, so I accept he did what he thought best. He gave me a wonderful show at Newmarket, he will do that in Vegas. I am a fan and will remain one.

[robgomm]

I didn't see any posts. Did he have a go at Patti in this thread?

[LucyK!]

The posts were removed for a reason - I'm not sure someone re-posting the content would be helpful!

[suzieq]

Originally Posted by robgomm

Did he have a go at Patti in this thread?

No.

[austukas]

I had a long weekend waiting till I get home and see at least some pictures with Patti from the show and I find out, that she's no longer in the band. My heart is broken, because the reason I listened to Meat Loaf is gone...

[Wario]

Originally Posted by austukas

My heart is broken, because the reason I listened to Meat Loaf is gone...

If you listed to ML for Patti, you were listening to Patti.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Wario

If you listed to ML for Patti, you were listening to Patti.

If I watch your Penguin movie it would be because of Batman. Does that mean you don't want me to watch your film?

Meat has an excellent band because that helps him. If it wouldn't matter then he could come on stage with a tape like a tribute act.

What anyone takes away from shows/CDs/photos etc is surely up to the fan. There is no rule book what we should like and how we should like it.

[Breeze]

I imagine most of us will get over it, b/c I am indeed buying Meat Loaf albums.

That does not mean we can just get this out of our rear view mirror instantly.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Wario

If you listed to ML for Patti, you were listening to Patti.

I agree with this part of Warrio's reply to austukas. If Patti is why you followed Meat .. she still has a career, and I hope a very successful one. You can still follow her

[The Flying Mouse]

I've requested R's permission to lock this thread down for 24 hours, which he's given.
I've been to work and let's say in depth moderation after too much rock n roll n brew isn't always the best idea

I had a brief convo with Meat last night, and he offered me some of the story (in confidence) of what's happened.
Needless to say i'm not at liberty to repeat anything that has been said in PM to any third party.

Speculation, although completely natural for the fans of an artist when there is a change in the wind, doesn't help much.
Especially when it manifests itself as anger and finger pointing.
Although Meat has given me his confidence (to an extent) i'm far from having a full understanding of the situation myself.
I want a chance to go over the thread and clean up some of the more angry speculative posts, as well as some of the in fighting.


As for deleted posts, I can confirm that Meat has in no way or form posted anything disrespectful on this forum towards Patti, but was a result of the speculation that has occurred on the thread.

I personally believe that Meat's reluctance to comment on the matter at this time is evidence that he has no wish to air dirty laundry in public and show Patti any disrespect by posting his side of the story (no dig intended towards Patti for posting on Facebook).

Weather he posts any explanation at some future time is completely up to him.

At this time i'm reminded of a quote I read on this forum that I belive has special significance.

There are three sides to each story.

One side.

The other side.

And the truth.

Will aim to have this thread up and running again by tomorrow evening.

[The Flying Mouse]

The mod stuff................

I've given the thread a good clean to get rid of some of the in fighting and some of the more angrily speculative posts.
I've tried to be as fair as possible to everyone concerned, but if something has been deleted you feel should have stayed up, mea culpa

1st of all.
Yes, the thread belongs on the forum.
People here have a special interest in Meat, and Patti has been a big part of that for the last 20 years.
No more debate on weather this should be discussed on the forum.
Pandora has officially opened the box.
Let's deal with it the best we can in a rational manner rather than invest in a lifetime supply of elephant food (and a f*cking big pooper scooper ).

With that in mind, may I remind you that we are not in full possession of the facts.
I wouldn't presume to know all the facts of what has gone on without asking Meat at least 20 questions, asking Patti an extra 20, and even then the truth would probably be somewhere in between.
See what Jonty's boss said about there being 3 sides to every argument.

As we don't know the full facts, please show some restraint when it comes to finger pointing and venting "disgust" at anybody involved to how and why Patti has been dismissed.
It's unfair.

We don't know if the termination email was the 1st or the 100'th correspondence between Meat & Patti on the subject.
Personally, I would be surprised if the first thing Patti knew about this was when she opened her emails.

If Meat and/or Patti should decide to give a full explanation as to what has happened, perhaps we can have a more informed opinion then.
Until that time, at least, try to keep an open mind.

While it's true that Meat posted in anger in the heat of the moment in response to what has been said on this thread, I can forgive him that as much as I can forgive the angry posts that prompted his response.
If folks were posting about me in such harsh terms with such little information, I would have said much worse than Meat.
Meat's words have been deleted (within a very short time) by mutual agreement.
Reposting what Meat posted here is completely out of the question, and sharing what Meat said with who he posted to is nothing short of shit stirring and causing unnecessary upset IMO.
And it's not Meat's reputation i'm thinking of when I say that.
You might want to double check your motives before forwarding any deleted message.
On that matter, case closed.

IMHO.........

Personally, I agree that Patti's departure could have been handled better.
While it's true that it says Meat Loaf on the tickets, and it's a Meat Loaf concert you are paying to see, Meat knows how loved Patti is by the fans.
It's natural that fans should be disappointed and upset not to see Patti on stage with Meat.
That said, it's never a good day to break bad news, and let's be completely honest here, a simple "Patti has left the band, we wish her the best of luck" would not be the end of the matter. There would have been a whole new round of speculation and demand for answers.
Damned if you do, put in the wicker man if you don't

An issue has obviously arisen, and perhaps, just perhaps, Meat has not said anything publicly because he feels that to post his point of view might be disrespectful to Patti?
While we all (well, not all of us) want answers, two opposing points of view being aired in public can turn very quickly into a slanging match.
It would be a real sorrow to see things end like that between them

While I personally doubt very much that the termination email was the first Patti was told on the subject, there are certain things that do have to be put in writing.
You may like your boss, might think of him as a friend, might even go for beers on a Friday night after work, but when it comes right down to it there are legal requirements when terminating somebody's employment.
Not nice, just a fact of life.

I for one do not believe that Meat is happy to see Patti gone.
Although things could have been handled differently in the last 3 weeks, 3 weeks is not an awful long time.
In the interview posted in this thread, Meat called Patti his "rock", and I don't think for a moment he was exaggerating or lying.
Try cutting off your right arm and see how much better you feel in 3 weeks time

I can only repeat what I've said before...........

Patti: I'm very sorry to see you gone, and i'll always be grateful for the special times you have given me (keep your jokes to yourselves there folks ).
I'm sure her career is far from over, and i'd LOVE to see some solo work.
Our loss is some other lucky sods gain.

Meat: I'm sorry to see you lose IMHO the best female foil you've had in your long career.


In summary........

Keep an open mind.

No off topic fighting.

Try and show some consideration for each other, Meat, and Patti.
This isn't easy on anyone.

I'm opening the thread again, but if we have more of the same it'll be deleted.

[LucyK!]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

As we don't know the full facts, please show some restraint when it comes to finger pointing and venting "disgust" at anybody involved to how and why Patti has been dismissed.

Personally, I would be surprised (flabbergasted, actually) if the first thing Patti knew about this was when she opened her emails.

That's not gone well, huh...