Please read - Youtube vid comments

[lyn]

Originally Posted by suzieq

I would like to take the opportunity to applaud the Mod team for a written consideration of Meat's feelings. Especially since he has expressed his concerns of the You Tubes.

I don't think it has a lick to do about censorship....I think it has all to do with compassion. Something which is very nice to see. A much appreciated change.

A lot of balls and integrity was shown by The Flying Mouse, and compassion too Well worth shouting a beer if we didn't live so far apart, lol :)

[Paul Richardson]

Its just sad that honest opinions cannot be shared on a forum because some consider them to be 'uninformed', which is only another 'uninformed' opinion afterall...

[BostonAngel]

Originally Posted by chairboys

Come on, Sarge.
This is not a boring forum. If it is then we are ALL just a bunch of bores.
Since joining last year, I haven't laughed so much at all the comments posted on here. Because they can be honest, subtle, rude, funny, controversial or whatever. But, don't call it boring!!!
And, secondly, who would want to control the crowd on here?
Hats off to the Mods!!

I agree that it definitely isn't boring. I am finding it fun to be here again. For the past 2 years it has been less & less fun. I have noticed that people that haven't posted in awhile are starting to post again.
You said it perfectly - comments are all the things you mentioned.
And I also agree with you on that HATS off to the Mod! I think they are doing a fantastic job. The whole point of this thread was to head off a potentially controversial issue b4 it became one. Unfortunately it backfired and still created controversy. I applaud the mods for being proactive in a difficult situation. I am behind them 100%

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

But that's my point, Caryl; perhaps I'm not articulating it clearly. I'm not talking about nitpicky things like a missed note here and there- that's what I'm referring to when I say "shallow". I don't go to any show looking for imperfections. I am talking about the entire experience, and maybe my experience is different than someone else's. But, as I said, I think some people don't really want to know what I think/ feel.

OK .. and in my post you quoted and replied to I was very clearly talking about the kind of show where the vast majority went well .. which I have to say has almost invariably been my experience. I said I liked to concentrate on the positives, but if others wanted to highlight imperfections that was their choice. And honestly I struggle to think of shows where the whole experience left me disappointed .. even the very few shows which have ended abruptly because Meat was ill (I can think of 3) gave me great enjoyment until he was stricken and had to leave the stage or be carried off.

So perhaps I didn't articulate my point clearly either I'm not uninterested in what most people here think/feel, provided it's expressed with some respect for Meat if it's about his work. I'm less interested if it's diving in to concentrate on what you say are nitpicky things .. and I still think that poor quality bootlegs are generally a poor basis for judging a performance. That's simply where I stand on the issue.

Caryl

[Sarge]

@ Stretch

Maybe you should just put up with the fact that some people have another concept of "fan" and "fan club" than you.

Originally Posted by stretch37

it is an insult that you come on his fan club and tell fans who love and adore his voice and were at the concert and heard an amazing performance, that based on a crappy cellphone youtube clip, you think he sounds terrible. Its just plain STUPID! get it?

It's also an insult to accuse long-time fans, good people who surely don't hate Meat Loaf and who have been around much longer than you of "not liking Meat Loaf" just because they said that the vocals on a performance appear "weak" to them (for example) on one occasion. It pisses me off how a wannabe forum police treats these people.

No one keeps you from disagreeing with something you don't like or think is wrong. Unfortunately some people favor censorship and attacking and defaming their fellow fans over a civilized discussion.

[Paul Richardson]

Originally Posted by BostonAngel

The whole point of this thread was to head off a potentially controversial issue b4 it became one. Unfortunately it backfired and still created controversy.

As you say (I think) there's nothing quite like shooting oneself in the foot ...

[lyn]

Originally Posted by loaferman61

Who is disrespecting Meat? How do you define disrespect? When a pre-emptive rule is made saying to comment on something if you enjoy it, but keep quiet if you don't how is that not bordering on censorship? Meat himself said in a recent interview he's a "straight-shooter". So am I. Things really became comical to me when it was said if your opinion was not positive to blame the clip. Problem is Patti sounds fantastic on those clips, not saying Meat sounds bad mind you, but should I only comment that Patti sounded great, which leaves an implication that Meat might not have?

If you can't figure it out.....look it up in the dictionary as we are sick of pointing it out!!!

The Flying Mouse has done a wonderful job in starting this thread, and now it has gone to hell! You wonder why people leave the forum??? Well it is type of fighting/nit picking that drives people away. The fact that people can't control what they say when expressing criticism about anything that Meat does etc. Keeping a civil tongue inside ones head, commonsense, courtesy and respect needs to be shown.

Hell, we are all not going to agree on something......so hit dis-like or like, or comment.....whatever takes your fancy......but Meat does read here! Keep it appropriate! A no brainer really, you would think!!!

[lyn]

Originally Posted by Sarge

Ever seen a university library? It's not always the newest and best material you find there. It's also not the case that each painting is photographed via the newest and best equipment, that's not possible for various reasons. Moreover, there are paintings that have disappeared or do no longer exist. So all you have may be old black-and-white photos of them. According to your reasoning such paintings should be ignored when evaluating an artist's work. (?)

We don't always have proper (who defines that, by the way?) sources available to base our opinions on. SO WHAT? Are we not allowed to discuss the Napoleonic Wars just because we haven't taken part in them? How do we know that books we read about them are a proper account of what happened? If you're only allowed to have an opinion about something if you have the "right" sources available, we can hardly discuss anything.

All our opinions are based on something that has already been filtered somehow, even when it comes to things we experienced ourselves. You can perceive something in a certain way today and in another way tomorrow.

Whether someone says "Meat sounds great on this" or "Meat's voice sounds weak here" is a result of various factors like perception, expectation, experience, preferences, association, situation/circumstances, context... You can't say who is "right" and who is "wrong". It doesn't have that much to do with Meat Loaf himself. That's why he shouldn't take "negative" comments that personal - because they usually aren't.



Is that OUR fault? Maybe he should at least try to understand his fans instead of (over)reacting the way he usually does. Do you think it makes fans happy to be wrongfully accused of not liking him again and again? He always expects us to be considerate towards him, so why can't he show a little consideration himself? That's my sense of fair play. Fair play should go both ways, otherwise you can't call it "fair".

If someone had intentionally insulted Meat Loaf, I'd agree that the mods should take action but banning posts in which someone simply reflects on what they see/hear is wrong. As I said, even a high-quality recording does not ensure that the listener/viewer will like what they hear/see. Fans talk about what they like and also about what they dislike. That's what they do, especially on internet forums (that's what they are usually created for). It's what keeps fan communities alive. The most active and interesting forums are usually those on which you're not told which opinion is "right" and which is "wrong". (Mind you, I'm not talking about the usual forum rules regarding the tone and wording of posts.)

In spite of going for a hunt for posts that could contain the slightest trace of criticism, Meat Loaf should pay attention to all the positive stuff as well and be glad that there are people who are that much interested in his work, even if not all of it is to everybody's liking.

But I have the feeling that discussing with you is in vain. You are obviously convinced that you did the right thing and are defending your baby (the new "rule") with fangs and claws and are immune to counter-arguments. If you want to be mod on a boring forum that conveys an atmosphere and is full of silly restrictions that prevent honest, diverse, interesting discussions so be it.

I understand your motivation but I don't think that you're doing the community and Meat Loaf any favors with that rule.

I'm glad I'm not a mod on here as how could you put up with rubbish like this!!! Thumbs up for the job that The Flying Mouse is trying to do, and thumbs down for comments that I have quoted here.

End of story!!

[lyn]

Originally Posted by Paul Richardson

Its just sad that honest opinions cannot be shared on a forum because some consider them to be 'uninformed', which is only another 'uninformed' opinion afterall...

They can be mate, but just with a bit of respect We all know Meat reads here from time to time. But we just need to be careful on how we show our honesty Still get our point across, but by using respect, compassion and commonsense

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by lyn

I'm glad I'm not a mod on here as how could you put up with rubbish like this!!! Thumbs up for the job that The Flying Mouse is trying to do, and thumbs down for comments that I have quoted here.

End of story!!

Another person running out of arguments. Are you angry that my post wasn't deleted? Maybe someone could come up with a new rule, claim that I violated it and remove the post that bothers you that much after the fact? (Just trying to adapt to some people's attitudes here.)

[lyn]

Originally Posted by Monstro

Calm down Stretch or I'm going to be up all night taking the expletives out of your posts

Stretch has a point though

[suzieq]

I would like to see the mods stick to the original plan and have the new rule implemented. You Tubes posted for comment and moderated accordingly. I agree with posting the rule before it becomes a problem (and history stands that it HAS become a problem).

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by CarylB

And honestly I struggle to think of shows where the whole experience left me disappointed .. even the very few shows which have ended abruptly because Meat was ill (I can think of 3) gave me great enjoyment until he was stricken and had to leave the stage or be carried off.

I guess that's where you and I are different, Caryl- such an experience would not have been a very positive one for me. I think you see what I'm getting at.

Originally Posted by CarylB

I'm not uninterested in what most people here think/feel, provided it's expressed with some respect for Meat if it's about his work.

You, maybe- other people, I'm not so sure.

[BostonAngel]

Originally Posted by Paul Richardson

As you say (I think) there's nothing quite like shooting oneself in the foot ...

You are taking what I said out of context and missing the point. However, I don't feel the need to try and explain myself further.
I will repeat, that I do applaud the mods for the effort that they are making and I hope that effort continues.

[Paul Richardson]

Originally Posted by BostonAngel

You are taking what I said out of context and missing the point.

Its called irony ...

[lyn]

Originally Posted by Sarge

Another person running out of arguments. Are you angry that my post wasn't deleted? Maybe someone could come up with a new rule, claim that I violated it and remove the post that bothers you that much after the fact? (Just trying to adapt to some people's attitudes here.)

Oh I have plenty of arguments that is for sure You want your post removed? Easy.....plenty would report it Sarge.

You are forever, in many threads playing the violated victim......a person without rights.....quite humorous really but you never take into consideration the feelings and thoughts of others here, and especially of Meat. Myself and plenty of others are simply trying to say that we like what Mouse has posted to start the thread and that when discussing the YT video that we take into consideration its quality, etc, etc. Then you'll discover that many are wanting others to be considerate to others when posting their honest opinions. If you find that violating or insulting, well that is your problem, not ours. I'm stating that Mouse has done a fine job. Your post I quoted was a pure example of disrespect, NOT running out of arguments!

You're not adapting well then

[BostonAngel]

Originally Posted by Paul Richardson

Its called irony ...

Definition of irony (n)
bing.com · Bing Dictionary
i·ro·ny [ rənee ] 1.humor based on opposites: humor based on using words to suggest the opposite of their literal meaning
2.something humorous based on contradiction: something said or written that uses humor based on words suggesting the opposite of their literal meaning
3.incongruity: incongruity between what actually happens and what might be expected to happen, especially when this disparity seems absurd or laughable

I don't find anything humorous or laughable about this. Nothing about what I said was contradictory. I do find it absurd that people can't seem to use respect and compassion when posting their thoughts. Just my thoughts

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

I guess that's where you and I are different, Caryl- such an experience would not have been a very positive one for me. I think you see what I'm getting at.

Yes I do .. and when it happened it was terrible. However, I would not have described Meat's performance as poor or the show as a waste of money. I would have, and in fact did, describe what had gone before the show came to an end, which was positive, with Meat putting all his energy and passion into every song.

After Newcastle I wrote that he seemed to be "saving" his voice at the start, but then grew stronger and was belting out the songs, hitting the notes, and the song before Paradise was really great. Then when the band started the intro to Paradise, he tried to start, at least twice, and it was clear his voice had completely deserted him.

In Florida he came on in style and delivered 3 songs faultlessly, and I was all set for another spectacular show. Then he went into the wings and disappeared, followed by Kasim, who returned to say Meat had been taken ill.

At Wembley he was doing brilliantly .. song after song delivered with energy and passion .. and then he seemed to stagger ... and simply dropped like a stone.

I think you see what I'm getting at

Caryl

[lyn]

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

I guess that's where you and I are different, Caryl- such an experience would not have been a very positive one for me. I think you see what I'm getting at.



You, maybe- other people, I'm not so sure.

I can see your point there Julie We as fans experience Meats concerts differently, and have different expectations of them too. For some, such as myself, as long as Meat was on the stage then I'd be happy regardless. Some go by quality of the performance, which imho is fine too. I suppose what we look for in a performance is what makes us happy. Something that may make one unhappy may not phase the next. It's just how we are wired

I agree, there some that value Meat, but others I'm unsure of too

[Paul Richardson]

Originally Posted by BostonAngel

Definition of irony (n)
bing.com · Bing Dictionary

Yes, I understand the meaning of irony ...

... what was ironic was that the aim of the thread (as you said) was to prevent the very thing its created - a row - so yes, hats off to all concerned (!)

[loaferman61]

Originally Posted by lyn

If you can't figure it out.....look it up in the dictionary as we are sick of pointing it out!!!

The Flying Mouse has done a wonderful job in starting this thread, and now it has gone to hell! You wonder why people leave the forum??? Well it is type of fighting/nit picking that drives people away. The fact that people can't control what they say when expressing criticism about anything that Meat does etc. Keeping a civil tongue inside ones head, commonsense, courtesy and respect needs to be shown.

Hell, we are all not going to agree on something......so hit dis-like or like, or comment.....whatever takes your fancy......but Meat does read here! Keep it appropriate! A no brainer really, you would think!!!

Uh, there is nothing in my post you quoted that is in the dictionary unless you mean the individual words. Look at how angry you get. This is about more than youtube videos, it is about principle and people making arbitrary rules that are one-sided. This whole "courtesy" and "respect" straw man is weak. What was so wonderful about starting this thread? Is that under "w" for wonderful or "s" for starting in your Funk and Wagnals? If you don't get that there has been a sense of repression around here for some time look up "oblivious". Actually it should be a "no-brainer" that sometimes you are not going to like what people say and handling it like a mature adult so everybody else doesn't have to tip-toe on eggshells. When people admit that they have not posted what they truly felt to avoid being hassled that is just not right.

[loaferman61]

Originally Posted by lyn

I'm glad I'm not a mod on here

See we finally agree on something.

[BostonAngel]

Originally Posted by loaferman61

Uh, there is nothing in my post you quoted that is in the dictionary unless you mean the individual words. Look at how angry you get. This is about more than youtube videos, it is about principle and people making arbitrary rules that are one-sided. This whole "courtesy" and "respect" straw man is weak. What was so wonderful about starting this thread? Is that under "w" for wonderful or "s" for starting in your Funk and Wagnals? If you don't get that there has been a sense of repression around here for some time look up "oblivious". Actually it should be a "no-brainer" that sometimes you are not going to like what people say and handling it like a mature adult so everybody else doesn't have to tip-toe on eggshells. When people admit that they have not posted what they truly felt to avoid being hassled that is just not right.

I personally find it sad that you consider others asking for courtesy and respect weak. Those two character traits are to be admired and valued in my opinion.
It is not about a one-sided rule. it is about making a rule that is fair to most - the fans and Meat included. Again it is about respect and courtesy, which you find to be "weak"
What is wonderful about this thread is the mods listened to what many have said about how to improve the forum and came up with a proactive solution.

[loaferman61]

Originally Posted by BostonAngel

I personally find it sad that you consider others asking for courtesy and respect weak. Those two character traits are to be admired and valued in my opinion.
It is not about a one-sided rule. it is about making a rule that is fair to most - the fans and Meat included. Again it is about respect and courtesy, which you find to be "weak"
What is wonderful about this thread is the mods listened to what many have said about how to improve the forum and came up with a proactive solution.

I said it was a weak straw man, at least quote me straight please. I plan to take a break from posting anyway. This whole sheeple mentality from people who can't see the larger picture or understand what standing on principle is about are never going to do anything but follow. Asking people to Think outside the box is impossible when they can't even see they are in one.

[LuuuuvMeat]

Can we look into getting rid of the "dislike" button? I think it's over used and discourteous and disrespectful IMO.