Meat's posts - Page 2

AndrewG · 22 Apr 2010, 01:51

I can see it from both sides but I am not a Mod or is Meat for that matter so why it was deleted and who requested it is just speculation here. Has anyone actually asked a mod before thinking about starting this debate? It did get ugly from what I read. Surely this is not the right time to have such negative threads around? And in the end this site is paid for and hosted not by any of us so we should respect that as well. Yeah sure you can have the whole democracy debate but perhaps things get removed as that can also be in Meat's interest and reputation?

Opinion are like assholes, everyone has one including Meat.
Showing him a decent amount of respect for his work, as this is a fan forum is a no-brainer though.

TheDoode · 22 Apr 2010, 01:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by duke knooby

so critisism is fine, as long as its positive?

One more time, for the cheap seats, 'see my previous post'.

duke knooby · 22 Apr 2010, 01:52

[QUOTE=TheDoode;491905]So... Meat should just ignore 'certain comments' while the perpetrator gets to say whatever he wants?

/QUOTE]

if whatever the person says is within the rules, whats the problem?

TheDoode · 22 Apr 2010, 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Showing him a decent amount of respect for his work, as this is a fan forum is a no-brainer though.

And that's the point in one!

Doode.

duke knooby · 22 Apr 2010, 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoode

One more time, for the cheap seats, 'see my previous post'.

one more time for me in the cheap seats, its ok to critisize, as long as its positive?

A Slice Of English · 22 Apr 2010, 01:55

No, duke, what he's said is that its fine to criticise so long as its constructive. But a certain someone was posting INITIALLY a constructive response of "I don't like the album and here's why" and then following up throughout the thread after other positive or negative comments with "I don't agree with that" or "I agree, it's not his best" when he'd made his point the first time. It was dragging the thread down and Meat called him on it, that's all. And rightly so.

TheDoode · 22 Apr 2010, 01:58

[QUOTE=duke knooby;491908]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoode

So... Meat should just ignore 'certain comments' while the perpetrator gets to say whatever he wants?

/QUOTE]

if whatever the person says is within the rules, whats the problem?

Duke,

I've already given my thoughts - I'm all for open criticism, outright dislikes, upfront do-likes, issues, loves, hates... whatever... but needless, mindless, thoughtless comments designed to provoke and inflame don't do anyone any favours.

Thats' all I've got man

I'm done on this one.

Doode.

Kathy · 22 Apr 2010, 02:08

Having an opinion and expressing it doesn't create a problem. Say your piece and then let it go. Inserting negative comments in nearly every thread is heckling, and has no place on a fan forum. Any number of hecklers, even just one, is one too many. Even when it doesn't bother Meat, it bothers fans who come here excited and happy and leave wondering why such behavior is allowed.

Setting aside the issue of whether Meat (or his fans) should have to develop a thick skin to come here, I doubt that any of us are going to be bothered by one post. But repetetive negative posts feel like being poked with a stick over and over. It makes ME mad, and I'm (believe it or not!) one of the most even-tempered people you'll meet :)
-Kathy

Vickip · 22 Apr 2010, 02:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kathy

Having an opinion and expressing it doesn't create a problem. Say your piece and then let it go. Inserting negative comments in nearly every thread is heckling, and has no place on a fan forum. Any number of hecklers, even just one, is one too many. Even when it doesn't bother Meat, it bothers fans who come here excited and happy and leave wondering why such behavior is allowed.

Setting aside the issue of whether Meat (or his fans) should have to develop a thick skin to come here, I doubt that any of us are going to be bothered by one post. But repetetive negative posts feel like being poked with a stick over and over. It makes ME mad, and I'm (believe it or not!) one of the most even-tempered people you'll meet :)
-Kathy

Exactly

duke knooby · 22 Apr 2010, 02:19

fair enough.. no issue with that.. as long as its fair.. (and if needs be balanced)

Sarge · 22 Apr 2010, 02:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoode

So... Meat should just ignore 'certain comments' while the perpetrator gets to say whatever he wants?

Don't get me wrong. I did not mean that people should be allowed to offend Meat (or anyone else). I hope you read the rest of my posting, too.

I once heard Ray Charles sing "sticks and stones may break my bones but talk don't bother me". For many years, I had to communicate with people from all over the world, with different personalities, backgrounds and interests. Over the years, I've developed a very good feeling for people and their motivation to say certain things and to behave in a particular way. I believe many comments aren't really worth to be taken as serious as they appear and that many escalations that have happened on this forum were absolutely unnessary. Often people's tongues (or rather their fingers in this case) and egos are just quicker than their mind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kathy

But repetetive negative posts feel like being poked with a stick over and over.

I think that was the actual problem in that particular case. Someone felt repeatedly criticized and attacked by someone else. The thread that got locked wasn't a discussion, it was a battle.

MeatGrl1 · 22 Apr 2010, 02:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarge

The thread that got locked wasn't a discussion, it was a battle.

I agree, I felt that too.

CarylB · 22 Apr 2010, 02:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoode

It's not about people 'worshipping', it's about multiple unessesary posts littering threads with the sole intention (obvious or not) of bringing the general vibe down for everyone else. If someone wants to post something constructive and critical, power to them, if someone wants to post the equivalent of 'shit' after every page... that bothers me. It obviously bothers Meat too.

Doode.

As I don't know why the thread was removed I wouldn't call for it being put back. I agreed with pretty much everything Meat posted, and also that he had a right to call out what was going on.

I continually find it bizarre that when people call for respect to be shown towards Meat there will be some who define that as worshipping or ass-kissing. Meat IS different, he is the performer this site is about for heavens sake, and just because he is interested and approachable enough to come here and talk to us does not mean imo he should be regarded as "just one of the members". It's to most of us an honour and a joy that he comes here, and he should imo be treated with honour.

Like you, I am equally annoyed when I see posts being made repeatedly with the sole intention of bringing the mood down, or as Emma has said with the apparent motive of getting Meat's attention .. the squeaky wheel syndrome. It bothers Meat too as you say, and it was time it was addressed .. and I do agree with Kathy that the one person who should be able to do this, if it's not prevented, is Meat. He spoke for many of us when he posted yesterday. "Freedom of speech" is such an abused term and used too often imo as a shield for behaviour which is rude or disrespectful.

But I can also see that whilst the thread might have sent a message to those here who indulge in that behaviour, to newcomers it could easily be open to misinterpretation, given we have the rather daft situation where Meat can't use his own name. People often take a while to accept that this IS Meat posting, and when they don't know the background that's led up to what took place yesterday, it could look very strange.

Personally I would have liked a clear statement on the forum when this was removed that the behaviour that provoked it is not acceptable, that Meat is honoured here and deserves respect. That if you don't like some of his work you may of course say this but should do so politely, with respect for his feelings. Meat doesn't expect everyone to like everything, and has no problem with that, but do not attack his motives, his character, his person. That if you don't like anything he does you should consider not coming here because what is the point? This is a forum for those who appreciate him. And that it is not acceptable to dismiss those who do, nor indeed those who who do unconditionally because they love him, in negative terms like "sucking up" or "ass kissing". Fansites will have many who do indeed love and worship the performer, and if you can't understand that then at least don't ridicule it or try and bring their mood down.

No-one, not Meat nor us, should have to develop a "thick skin" to post here. Meat has feelings, as do we. There's no justification for rudeness or comments intended to hurt anyone's feelings, belittle them, or belittle Meat's work.

Caryl

CarylB · 22 Apr 2010, 02:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kathy
But repetetive negative posts feel like being poked with a stick over and over.

Posted by Sarge:
I think that was the actual problem in that particular case. Someone felt repeatedly criticized and attacked by someone else.

The biter bit in this case imo. Meat, with great control, treated someone to a dose of the same medicine.

Although I agree you have not suggested in any way that people should be allowed to offend Meat or anyone else.

Caryl

duke knooby · 22 Apr 2010, 02:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarylB

No-one, not Meat nor us, should have to develop a "thick skin" to post here. Meat has feelings, as do we. There's no justification for rudeness or comments intended to hurt anyone's feelings, belittle them, or belittle Meat's work.

Caryl

totally agree

MeatGrl1 · 22 Apr 2010, 02:41

Caryl, thank you.
What a fantastic post

.

Sarge · 22 Apr 2010, 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarylB

No-one, not Meat nor us, should have to develop a "thick skin" to post here.

It helps sometimes.

Especially when you know why some people make certain comments. It's not about feelings, it's about tactics. It depends on how you react whether you successfully stand your ground or whether you make yourself vulnerable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarylB

There's no justification for rudeness or comments intended to hurt anyone's feelings, belittle them, or belittle Meat's work.

Indeed.

CarylB · 22 Apr 2010, 03:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarge

It helps sometimes.

Especially when you know why some people make certain comments. It's not about feelings, it's about tactics. It depends on how you react whether you successfully stand your ground or whether you make yourself vulnerable.

Oh trust me .. I've learned tactics to manage myself through dealing with some frightful people in my working life

But here we should be able to come and just relax and enjoy ourselves .. have fun, but not at others' expense. This shouldn't be about games and tactics imo.

And Meat? .. his very passion for and in what he does means he will be sensitive. If he wasn't I don't believe we would see such passion and tenderness in his singing, such commitment to all he does and to his fans.

I loved his description recently "Some travel on a golden road. I walk along a dirt path with rocks and rabbit holes". He has had to fight so hard for what he believes, continues to do so. If he comes here to interact with his fans, those people to whom he always says he owes everything, with a gentle heart and easily bruised feelings, I think we should be able to accommodate that

.. and treat him with some of the gentleness he always shows to those fans meeting him for the first time who are close to being petrified where they stand .. as I watched him do this Monday.

Caryl

Sarge · 22 Apr 2010, 03:15

By the way, why do we actually argue about some stupid thing that happened yesterday and that many people - fortunately - did not witness? It's in the past!

I for my part will enjoy the rest of the evening... No, wait... ACK, it's already morning! Nevermind...

Relax, folks! There's a new album out (which I will hopefully get before Saturday) and there's gonna be a tour, so there are lot of nice events we can look forward to. Concentrate on the things that really matter!

MeatGrl1 · 22 Apr 2010, 03:19

Exactly !!!

I think the main reason this is here is because so many of us didn't like what we did see but I totally agree there are so much nice and positive things going on at the moment, new album, upcoming tour and most importantly Meat is visiting on a regular basis at the moment so we should be grateful for that and not dwell on a negative thing that happened yesterday and as it is no longer around we should let the matter drop.

melon · 22 Apr 2010, 03:22

I would prefer a thread like that removed once its out of his system. But I do agree that he should never have to defend himself like that on ANY fan forum, but good on him for doing that, I just don't think that the threads need to be left laying about for long after...... those posts tend to find their way onto other unnamed boards being taken well out of context.

AndrewG · 22 Apr 2010, 03:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeatGrl1

Exactly !!!

I think the main reason this is here is because so many of us didn't like what we did see but I totally agree there are so much nice and positive things going on at the moment, new album, upcoming tour and most importantly Meat is visiting on a regular basis at the moment so we should be grateful for that and not dwell on a negative thing that happened yesterday and as it is no longer around we should let the matter drop.

We seem to be going round in circles.

If people now conclude that the thread removal was indeed appropriate then this thread should be removed too.

Perhaps the mods/perhaps Meat himself saw this coming quicker or got to that conclusion before some of us did and acted appropriately.

Sue K · 22 Apr 2010, 03:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarge

By the way, why do we actually argue about some stupid thing that happened yesterday and that many people - fortunately - did not witness? It's in the past!

i don't see arguments... i see discussion ... and imo ... why the discussion? ... because what happened yesterday upset folks and they want to express their concerns about it ...

i've seen this thing happen year in year out... album out... tour on ... same-Oh same-Oh ... the man gets poked with the stick... for attention ? ... who knows... but i'd like to see this discussion thread remain to be a guide for others... treat the man kindly ... and don't mock those who love him ... be constructive with your criticism ... peace out ...

CarylB · 22 Apr 2010, 03:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by melon

I would prefer a thread like that removed once its out of his system. But I do agree that he should never have to defend himself like that on ANY fan forum, but good on him for doing that, I just don't think that the threads need to be left laying about for long after...... those posts tend to find their way onto other unnamed boards being taken well out of context.

Yes, a very good point Mel.

As to removing this thread? I agree with tink. There are things here that are very relevant to how so many of us feel about Meat and how he should be treated here.

Quote:

i've seen this thing happen year in year out... album out... tour on ... same-Oh same-Oh ... the man gets poked with the stick... for attention ? ... who knows... but i'd like to see this discussion thread remain to be a guide for others... treat the man kindly ... and don't mock those who love him ... be constructive with your criticism ... peace out ...

So in accord! .. And should this thread be removed , I'd like to see a clear statement on this site of how fortunate we are to have Meat post here and how he should be treated, something which goes beyond "the rules" because he is not "just a member" and will always be prey to those who like to poke the stick.

Caryl

nikox1 · 22 Apr 2010, 03:54

Kathy well said, and Caryl as usual you said it like it is

there is 3 type of people that visit this forum, type 1 is wise guys = they think they can post whatever they want/and they attack easy prey in numbers!! part of a little click, we cant be touched because we are friends with etc etc,, type 2 is the robin hoods = they will confront the bullies, will stand up for people who cant stand up for themselves, and just want to enjoy the forum? sadly theres not enough robin hoods at the minute, type 3 is the sit on the fence people/sweep everything under the rug people? they see whats going on, but they hope someone else will say what they are thinking!! and im sorry, but that is it in a nutshell!! now 99% of the time R and the mods do a great job, i have no problem with anybody on here, but i will defend myself when needs be? i didnt give the mods 100%, because then id be an ass-licker

,, and of course everybody can have an opinion, it would be boring any other way! but lets face it, meat did not or does not respond to opinions? lets face it people there has been a nasty trend creeping on here in the past while, its plain for all to see? and i must give meat credit for confronting it, most artists would cry out for the person/people to be removed from a forum, but meat called it like it is!! he answered it! now that said, i dont think meat can just attack who he wants, just because who he is? but deep down everybody knew it was coming, people seen what trend was starting to happen? people know and they clearly see it!! im no angel, most maybe dont like what i post? but i only speak out, or argue when i need to? i have a few buddys on here, i like what alot of people write, hell i have some enemys

, but this trend thats crept in, what trend? yeah!! right, we all see it, should be put to bed!! lets enjoy ourselves on here, and get this forum back to the way it was

22 Apr 2010, 03:54	#50
nikox1 Mega Loafer Join Date: 06.07.2007 Location: Front line of the battle Posts: 2,657	Kathy well said, and Caryl as usual you said it like it is there is 3 type of people that visit this forum, type 1 is wise guys = they think they can post whatever they want/and they attack easy prey in numbers!! part of a little click, we cant be touched because we are friends with etc etc,, type 2 is the robin hoods = they will confront the bullies, will stand up for people who cant stand up for themselves, and just want to enjoy the forum? sadly theres not enough robin hoods at the minute, type 3 is the sit on the fence people/sweep everything under the rug people? they see whats going on, but they hope someone else will say what they are thinking!! and im sorry, but that is it in a nutshell!! now 99% of the time R and the mods do a great job, i have no problem with anybody on here, but i will defend myself when needs be? i didnt give the mods 100%, because then id be an ass-licker,, and of course everybody can have an opinion, it would be boring any other way! but lets face it, meat did not or does not respond to opinions? lets face it people there has been a nasty trend creeping on here in the past while, its plain for all to see? and i must give meat credit for confronting it, most artists would cry out for the person/people to be removed from a forum, but meat called it like it is!! he answered it! now that said, i dont think meat can just attack who he wants, just because who he is? but deep down everybody knew it was coming, people seen what trend was starting to happen? people know and they clearly see it!! im no angel, most maybe dont like what i post? but i only speak out, or argue when i need to? i have a few buddys on here, i like what alot of people write, hell i have some enemys, but this trend thats crept in, what trend? yeah!! right, we all see it, should be put to bed!! lets enjoy ourselves on here, and get this forum back to the way it was

22 Apr 2010, 01:51	#26
AndrewG I hope your salmon sucks! Join Date: 18.01.2004 Location: Northamptonshire Posts: 7,081	I can see it from both sides but I am not a Mod or is Meat for that matter so why it was deleted and who requested it is just speculation here. Has anyone actually asked a mod before thinking about starting this debate? It did get ugly from what I read. Surely this is not the right time to have such negative threads around? And in the end this site is paid for and hosted not by any of us so we should respect that as well. Yeah sure you can have the whole democracy debate but perhaps things get removed as that can also be in Meat's interest and reputation? Opinion are like assholes, everyone has one including Meat. Showing him a decent amount of respect for his work, as this is a fan forum is a no-brainer though.

22 Apr 2010, 01:52	#28
duke knooby Mega Loafer Join Date: 24.06.2005 Location: belfast Posts: 17,902	[QUOTE=TheDoode;491905]So... Meat should just ignore 'certain comments' while the perpetrator gets to say whatever he wants? /QUOTE] if whatever the person says is within the rules, whats the problem?

22 Apr 2010, 01:55	#31
A Slice Of English Guest Join Date: 10.11.2003 Posts: 1,258	No, duke, what he's said is that its fine to criticise so long as its constructive. But a certain someone was posting INITIALLY a constructive response of "I don't like the album and here's why" and then following up throughout the thread after other positive or negative comments with "I don't agree with that" or "I agree, it's not his best" when he'd made his point the first time. It was dragging the thread down and Meat called him on it, that's all. And rightly so.

22 Apr 2010, 02:08	#33
Kathy Super Loafer Join Date: 02.10.2003 Location: Columbus, Ohio USA Posts: 610	Having an opinion and expressing it doesn't create a problem. Say your piece and then let it go. Inserting negative comments in nearly every thread is heckling, and has no place on a fan forum. Any number of hecklers, even just one, is one too many. Even when it doesn't bother Meat, it bothers fans who come here excited and happy and leave wondering why such behavior is allowed. Setting aside the issue of whether Meat (or his fans) should have to develop a thick skin to come here, I doubt that any of us are going to be bothered by one post. But repetetive negative posts feel like being poked with a stick over and over. It makes ME mad, and I'm (believe it or not!) one of the most even-tempered people you'll meet :) -Kathy

22 Apr 2010, 02:19	#35
duke knooby Mega Loafer Join Date: 24.06.2005 Location: belfast Posts: 17,902	fair enough.. no issue with that.. as long as its fair.. (and if needs be balanced)

22 Apr 2010, 02:41	#41
MeatGrl1 No Day But Today Join Date: 29.05.2006 Location: Sitting on the steps outside looking so restless and reckless and lost! Posts: 9,089	Caryl, thank you. What a fantastic post .

22 Apr 2010, 03:15	#44
Sarge Mega Loafer Join Date: 09.05.2008 Posts: 3,562	By the way, why do we actually argue about some stupid thing that happened yesterday and that many people - fortunately - did not witness? It's in the past! I for my part will enjoy the rest of the evening... No, wait... ACK, it's already morning! Nevermind... Relax, folks! There's a new album out (which I will hopefully get before Saturday) and there's gonna be a tour, so there are lot of nice events we can look forward to. Concentrate on the things that really matter!

22 Apr 2010, 03:19	#45
MeatGrl1 No Day But Today Join Date: 29.05.2006 Location: Sitting on the steps outside looking so restless and reckless and lost! Posts: 9,089	Exactly !!! I think the main reason this is here is because so many of us didn't like what we did see but I totally agree there are so much nice and positive things going on at the moment, new album, upcoming tour and most importantly Meat is visiting on a regular basis at the moment so we should be grateful for that and not dwell on a negative thing that happened yesterday and as it is no longer around we should let the matter drop.

22 Apr 2010, 03:22	#46
melon Long Distance Loafer Join Date: 17.07.2007 Location: Perth, Australia Posts: 4,586	I would prefer a thread like that removed once its out of his system. But I do agree that he should never have to defend himself like that on ANY fan forum, but good on him for doing that, I just don't think that the threads need to be left laying about for long after...... those posts tend to find their way onto other unnamed boards being taken well out of context.