What does Meat think of non-steinman albums?

PJ_Willow · 25 Sep 2006, 05:49

Hi guys, was just wondering if anybody knew what Meat thinks of non-steinman albums (apart from WTTN and CHSIBM)... so thats BBIS, MATLAF, Bad Attitude?

Reason I ask is that in most interviews I have seen when talking about his career Meat seems to go from New York broadway (meeting jim) to Bat 1, then all the problems, and then Bat 2. Obviously as albums they are nowhere near the BAT 2 or later quality but they still have some good tracks. MATLAF and Rock 'n Roll Mercenaries are great.

Is that dumbing down for general audiences or something else? Can't seem to find any of Meat's opinions anywhere.

Pudding · 25 Sep 2006, 06:01

That's probably a question you're best asking Meat himself. I'd say he's proud of all his albums, even if the Steinman related ones have given him the more success.

Pud

PJ_Willow · 25 Sep 2006, 06:18

I found this from an old interview somewhere on Jim's website...

"R&B veteran Tom Dowd produced Loaf's next effort, Midnight At The Lost And Found.

"The songs were dreadful. I had no concept of what was good or bad anymore. I don't count it as a record," rants Loaf. "My brother-in-law mixed it in three days, gave it to CBS and they put it out. We were stopped four times in the studio by injunctions."

Is Jim's "Left In The Dark" on BFG the same song as WTTN? Aaaa Meat why didn't you sing those songs!!!

Alex · 25 Sep 2006, 14:35

Yep, Jim wrote Left In The Dark from WTTN. It's the same song, but with a different arrangement.

If you haven't already got his album, I would suggest getting yourself a copy (generally you can get it quite cheap) - as I would to any Meat Loaf fan. Oh, and while you are at it, Pandora's Box is a nice album too which is another Jim Steinman album - but mostly not his vocals. You'll spot some very familiar songs on it.

Bad For Good - Jim Steinman from Amazon.co.uk
Original Sin - Pandora's Box from Amazon.co.uk

There are many other hidden treasures if you are interested in the arts of Jim Steinman.

Mind you, saying all that, I don't understand your comment "Aaaa Meat why didn't you sing those songs!" - which songs do you mean? He practically has recorded all of Jim's solo album now, so I doubt that's what you mean...

Sorry, I'm lost - but I hope I was helpful even in my state of lostness.

PJ_Willow · 25 Sep 2006, 23:37

Lol, sorry... I will explain..

I meant why didn't he sing them when Jim offered them to him, as I understand it, Jim had the songs penned for a follow up to Bat 1 (something angel...) but it was when Meat's head was all over the place and he said he didn't like the songs. Something about not wanting a xerox copy of Bat 1. So he did Dead Ringer and Jim released the songs on his own, either that or nothing. Thats how I understand it anyway, mayne I'm wrong.

hmm. Someone should do an interactive timeline detailing Meat Loaf's/Jim Steinman's career. Maybe I could do it Flash.

So I mean why didn't he sing them at the time basically.

Ordering those albums now...

**The Flying Mouse** · 26 Sep 2006, 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by PJ_Willow

Lol, sorry... I will explain..

I meant why didn't he sing them when Jim offered them to him, as I understand it, Jim had the songs penned for a follow up to Bat 1 (something angel...) but it was when Meat's head was all over the place and he said he didn't like the songs. Something about not wanting a xerox copy of Bat 1. So he did Dead Ringer and Jim released the songs on his own, either that or nothing. Thats how I understand it anyway, mayne I'm wrong.

hmm. Someone should do an interactive timeline detailing Meat Loaf's/Jim Steinman's career. Maybe I could do it Flash.

So I mean why didn't he sing them at the time basically.

Ordering those albums now...

Meat wasn't well.

Jimmy felt he couldn't wait any more and recorded it himself.

Meat got better.

Jimmy gave Meat the songs for the Dead Ringer album.

Meat recorded it.

Both albums were released.

There you go

PJ_Willow · 26 Sep 2006, 00:41

I see, I based my version of events from this interview http://www.jimsteinman.com/marry.htm

"Renegade Angel became Steinman's 1981 solo album, Bad For Good, the songs which Loaf had self-blocked. "I couldn't bear for people not to hear those songs," grimaces an anguished Steinman. He sung them himself: it's a wonderful record, except for the weedy voice."

Alex · 26 Sep 2006, 00:59

FlyingMouse labels the events fairly accurately. To detail:
Around 1979 all the touring had finally got to Meat's voice and he was unable to sing properly - infact, unable to sing at all and apparently noises came out, not notes. Anyway, Meat gave up recording the album and Jim took it on because he didn't want to wait. Now, Jim takes a while to do anything... so by the time he'd actually finished his album, Meat had recovered and recorded the entire of Dead Ringer and released it. This was over something like a 2 year period.

Meat's auto-biography "To Hell And Back" has some extracts about this in there and how they swapped songs like Dead Ringer for Rock and Roll Dreams.

Pudding · 26 Sep 2006, 02:50

Somewhere in the middle of all that I think it should be noted Meats departure from his management, getting new management, Jim being contractually obligated to provide songs etc etc etc

Pud

PJ_Willow · 27 Sep 2006, 04:13

Aah Fantastic

100% clear now. God this is the best forum on the net.

michael.c · 05 Oct 2006, 00:22

in his live sets meat usually drops all non steinman stuff after 1 tour. all midnight at the lost and found , bad attitude , blind before i stop , welcome to the neighbour hood ( and on his next tour all chsib ) albums dropped and not a song from them , only " id lie for you " being the sole survivor.

he is not impressed with non jim stuff if this is anything to go by.
personally i love all the non jim stuff as much, but his set list does not lie.
" frying pan " was not a hit single , and it stays in.

the " something " angel is in fact a song called renegade angel which was meant for bat 3 according to interviews around 10 years ago.

there is still a lot of stuff of jims for meat to record and he once said he would like to " total eclipse of the heart ".

so dont rule out bat 4.

djfierce · 05 Oct 2006, 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by michael.c

in his live sets meat usually drops all non steinman stuff after 1 tour. all midnight at the lost and found , bad attitude , blind before i stop , welcome to the neighbour hood ( and on his next tour all chsib ) albums dropped and not a song from them , only " id lie for you " being the sole survivor.

he is not impressed with non jim stuff if this is anything to go by.
personally i love all the non jim stuff as much, but his set list does not lie.
" frying pan " was not a hit single , and it stays in.

so dont rule out bat 4.

Or maybe his set-list is so because thats what he thinks we want to hear.
If singers just sang what they personally liked all the time then no-one would go to their shows

AndrewG · 05 Oct 2006, 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by PJ_Willow

I see, I based my version of events from this interview http://www.jimsteinman.com/marry.htm

"Renegade Angel became Steinman's 1981 solo album, Bad For Good, the songs which Loaf had self-blocked. "I couldn't bear for people not to hear those songs," grimaces an anguished Steinman. He sung them himself: it's a wonderful record, except for the weedy voice."

I've never understood this I still maintain Jim is quite a reasonable singer. The songs are extremely difficult to sing I've found (if I compare them to those from other artists such as Bruce Springsteen etc). Jim also attempts Left in the Dark in C whereas even Meat drops it a full note. I'm not saying Jim sings it better than Meat at all, just think he should be given more respect. The emotion is always there in his voice if you ask me, that's what's more important than being able to sing and go on X factor or so IMO.
Certainly my love for Meat and Jim's music is more about the connection between emotion rather than technical perfection. Sure Meat is a much better performer but I still think the album Bad for Good sounds bloody awesome.

Jackoutofhell · 05 Oct 2006, 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewG

I've never understood this I still maintain Jim is quite a reasonable singer. The songs are extremely difficult to sing I've found (if I compare them to those from other artists such as Bruce Springsteen etc). Jim also attempts Left in the Dark in C whereas even Meat drops it a full note. I'm not saying Jim sings it better than Meat at all, just think he should be given more respect. The emotion is always there in his voice if you ask me, that's what's more important than being able to sing and go on X factor or so IMO.
Certainly my love for Meat and Jim's music is more about the connection between emotion rather than technical perfection. Sure Meat is a much better performer but I still think the album Bad for Good sounds bloody awesome.

I think Jim is good on some of Bad For Good, but on other tracks, it's nauseating! His LITD literally makes me sick, I can't listen to it.

MeatGrl1 · 05 Oct 2006, 02:13

Why don't you just ask him !!

Seriously we are not mind readers and cannot speak for him!

Personally I love all his albums.. Waiting on BBIS but I am sure I will love it

!

CarylB · 05 Oct 2006, 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by djfierce

Or maybe his set-list is so because thats what he thinks we want to hear.
If singers just sang what they personally liked all the time then no-one would go to their shows

One of the most intelligent comments in this thread :)

As to suggestions that Meat doesn't like non-Steinman songs .. having followed his career for many years it seems to me that Meat knows better than anyone the songs which are right for him and would not put out anything he isn't absolutely satisfied with. In particular he was proud, and imo rightly so, of CHSIB .. which I still think is one of his greatest albums. And before anyone pops in and says this wasn't as successful as some others, we know it didn't get the promotion and exposure needed to make it more successful, and to me this doesn't stop it being a superb collection of songs.

But as djfierce says, the songs chosen for a tour do not necessarily reflect the singer's belief in other songs he has chosen, recorded and been rightly proud of.

In my view, if Meat's recorded and released it, he likes it and thinks it works for him with a few exceptions, and those he referred to in THAB.

Caryl

AndrewG · 05 Oct 2006, 14:22

I think Meat changes setlists for each tour quite a bit and it is not ALWAYS obvious what he is going to play (ie you do know most likely he will do Bat, Paradise, and Took the words). For example he dropped rnr dreams in 1996 but it was back in there in 1999. I personally don't think it necessarily has a lot to do with it being a Steinman song all the time (although I agree most of his are the best ones). He did Midnight on lots of tours and personally I would have preferred him to have kept CHSIB / DIST in the setlist on HOTD instead of for example DR.

wenners · 06 Oct 2006, 01:21

First of all the chances of a Bat 4, I sadly think are slim and none.
First of all you have Meats age, no spring chicken. plus the next couple of years will be focused on promoting the current album. After that you have to hope his voice is still in good shape.
Secondly you have Jim's health.
and they are just the minor issues.
Not to recently you had the law suit not the first time you may say but how long will it take to kiss and forget 1 year? 5, even 10 who knows.
The only way Jim would agree to a Bat 4 would be total control. would Meat want to give that especially as he has chosen to go a different way with this album. If he did give total control would that not be seen that taking this album in this direction was a mistake?

Isn't it amazing that before this album is even released people are talking about a bat 4 why is that?

I wonder how much talk there was about a bat 3 when back into hell was released.

Wenners

Oh one other thing

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackoutofhell

I think Jim is good on some of Bad For Good, but on other tracks, it's nauseating! His LITD literally makes me sick, I can't listen to it.

Please go see your DR and ask him to check your medication

michael.c · 06 Oct 2006, 12:50

first of all , bad for good is a bloody great album, and jims vocals are fine on it.

about meats set lists , the set is pretty constant , and the core songs ( all steinman ) are booh , paradise , all revved up , took the words , dead ringer for love , anything for love , and frying pan . these songs live are really streatched out long and make most of the show , as always.

the non steinman stuff is mercury and lawyers , and meat may know that the audience is not over fussed if they are in or out.

this leaves just the album he is touring plus " id lie for you ".

" modern girl " is one of meats biggest hits and i do not think he has sung it since about 1989.

on his 1990 irish tour only " masculine " survived from his arista years .

even then the setlist was all steinman and only matlaf.

plus a lot of chuck berry.

oh , and bat 4 is a pipe dream on my part, but look at the artists recording into their 60s and 70s now. and he does not have to tour it.

Jayd · 06 Oct 2006, 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by wenners

Isn't it amazing that before this album is even released people are talking about a bat 4 why is that?

I wonder how much talk there was about a bat 3 when back into hell was released.

Wenners

Well that would have been pretty hard to discuss, since the internet wasn't really a global thing back in 93.

michael.c · 06 Oct 2006, 19:21

who ever did mention bat out of hell 2 , when bat 1 was released.

25 Sep 2006, 05:49	#1
PJ_Willow Junior Loafer Join Date: 11.07.2006 Posts: 38	What does Meat think of non-steinman albums? Hi guys, was just wondering if anybody knew what Meat thinks of non-steinman albums (apart from WTTN and CHSIBM)... so thats BBIS, MATLAF, Bad Attitude? Reason I ask is that in most interviews I have seen when talking about his career Meat seems to go from New York broadway (meeting jim) to Bat 1, then all the problems, and then Bat 2. Obviously as albums they are nowhere near the BAT 2 or later quality but they still have some good tracks. MATLAF and Rock 'n Roll Mercenaries are great. Is that dumbing down for general audiences or something else? Can't seem to find any of Meat's opinions anywhere.

25 Sep 2006, 06:01	#2
Pudding I'm A Prize Fight Lover... Join Date: 22.10.2003 Location: New Zealand Posts: 5,532	That's probably a question you're best asking Meat himself. I'd say he's proud of all his albums, even if the Steinman related ones have given him the more success. Pud

25 Sep 2006, 06:18	#3
PJ_Willow Junior Loafer Join Date: 11.07.2006 Posts: 38	I found this from an old interview somewhere on Jim's website... "R&B veteran Tom Dowd produced Loaf's next effort, Midnight At The Lost And Found. "The songs were dreadful. I had no concept of what was good or bad anymore. I don't count it as a record," rants Loaf. "My brother-in-law mixed it in three days, gave it to CBS and they put it out. We were stopped four times in the studio by injunctions." Is Jim's "Left In The Dark" on BFG the same song as WTTN? Aaaa Meat why didn't you sing those songs!!!

25 Sep 2006, 14:35	#4
Alex Ooh weee ooOOoh! Join Date: 14.04.2002 Location: In the Land of the Manc's Posts: 445	Yep, Jim wrote Left In The Dark from WTTN. It's the same song, but with a different arrangement. If you haven't already got his album, I would suggest getting yourself a copy (generally you can get it quite cheap) - as I would to any Meat Loaf fan. Oh, and while you are at it, Pandora's Box is a nice album too which is another Jim Steinman album - but mostly not his vocals. You'll spot some very familiar songs on it. Bad For Good - Jim Steinman from Amazon.co.uk Original Sin - Pandora's Box from Amazon.co.uk There are many other hidden treasures if you are interested in the arts of Jim Steinman. Mind you, saying all that, I don't understand your comment "Aaaa Meat why didn't you sing those songs!" - which songs do you mean? He practically has recorded all of Jim's solo album now, so I doubt that's what you mean... Sorry, I'm lost - but I hope I was helpful even in my state of lostness.

25 Sep 2006, 23:37	#5
PJ_Willow Junior Loafer Join Date: 11.07.2006 Posts: 38	Lol, sorry... I will explain.. I meant why didn't he sing them when Jim offered them to him, as I understand it, Jim had the songs penned for a follow up to Bat 1 (something angel...) but it was when Meat's head was all over the place and he said he didn't like the songs. Something about not wanting a xerox copy of Bat 1. So he did Dead Ringer and Jim released the songs on his own, either that or nothing. Thats how I understand it anyway, mayne I'm wrong. hmm. Someone should do an interactive timeline detailing Meat Loaf's/Jim Steinman's career. Maybe I could do it Flash. So I mean why didn't he sing them at the time basically. Ordering those albums now...

26 Sep 2006, 00:41	#7
PJ_Willow Junior Loafer Join Date: 11.07.2006 Posts: 38	I see, I based my version of events from this interview http://www.jimsteinman.com/marry.htm "Renegade Angel became Steinman's 1981 solo album, Bad For Good, the songs which Loaf had self-blocked. "I couldn't bear for people not to hear those songs," grimaces an anguished Steinman. He sung them himself: it's a wonderful record, except for the weedy voice."

26 Sep 2006, 00:59	#8
Alex Ooh weee ooOOoh! Join Date: 14.04.2002 Location: In the Land of the Manc's Posts: 445	FlyingMouse labels the events fairly accurately. To detail: Around 1979 all the touring had finally got to Meat's voice and he was unable to sing properly - infact, unable to sing at all and apparently noises came out, not notes. Anyway, Meat gave up recording the album and Jim took it on because he didn't want to wait. Now, Jim takes a while to do anything... so by the time he'd actually finished his album, Meat had recovered and recorded the entire of Dead Ringer and released it. This was over something like a 2 year period. Meat's auto-biography "To Hell And Back" has some extracts about this in there and how they swapped songs like Dead Ringer for Rock and Roll Dreams.

26 Sep 2006, 02:50	#9
Pudding I'm A Prize Fight Lover... Join Date: 22.10.2003 Location: New Zealand Posts: 5,532	Somewhere in the middle of all that I think it should be noted Meats departure from his management, getting new management, Jim being contractually obligated to provide songs etc etc etc Pud

27 Sep 2006, 04:13	#10
PJ_Willow Junior Loafer Join Date: 11.07.2006 Posts: 38	Aah Fantastic 100% clear now. God this is the best forum on the net.

05 Oct 2006, 00:22	#11
michael.c Loafer Join Date: 07.12.2004 Location: belfast ireland Posts: 96	in his live sets meat usually drops all non steinman stuff after 1 tour. all midnight at the lost and found , bad attitude , blind before i stop , welcome to the neighbour hood ( and on his next tour all chsib ) albums dropped and not a song from them , only " id lie for you " being the sole survivor. he is not impressed with non jim stuff if this is anything to go by. personally i love all the non jim stuff as much, but his set list does not lie. " frying pan " was not a hit single , and it stays in. the " something " angel is in fact a song called renegade angel which was meant for bat 3 according to interviews around 10 years ago. there is still a lot of stuff of jims for meat to record and he once said he would like to " total eclipse of the heart ". so dont rule out bat 4.

05 Oct 2006, 02:13	#15
MeatGrl1 No Day But Today Join Date: 29.05.2006 Location: Sitting on the steps outside looking so restless and reckless and lost! Posts: 9,089	Why don't you just ask him !! Seriously we are not mind readers and cannot speak for him! Personally I love all his albums.. Waiting on BBIS but I am sure I will love it !

05 Oct 2006, 14:22	#17
AndrewG I hope your salmon sucks! Join Date: 18.01.2004 Location: Northamptonshire Posts: 7,081	I think Meat changes setlists for each tour quite a bit and it is not ALWAYS obvious what he is going to play (ie you do know most likely he will do Bat, Paradise, and Took the words). For example he dropped rnr dreams in 1996 but it was back in there in 1999. I personally don't think it necessarily has a lot to do with it being a Steinman song all the time (although I agree most of his are the best ones). He did Midnight on lots of tours and personally I would have preferred him to have kept CHSIB / DIST in the setlist on HOTD instead of for example DR.

06 Oct 2006, 12:50	#19
michael.c Loafer Join Date: 07.12.2004 Location: belfast ireland Posts: 96	first of all , bad for good is a bloody great album, and jims vocals are fine on it. about meats set lists , the set is pretty constant , and the core songs ( all steinman ) are booh , paradise , all revved up , took the words , dead ringer for love , anything for love , and frying pan . these songs live are really streatched out long and make most of the show , as always. the non steinman stuff is mercury and lawyers , and meat may know that the audience is not over fussed if they are in or out. this leaves just the album he is touring plus " id lie for you ". " modern girl " is one of meats biggest hits and i do not think he has sung it since about 1989. on his 1990 irish tour only " masculine " survived from his arista years . even then the setlist was all steinman and only matlaf. plus a lot of chuck berry. oh , and bat 4 is a pipe dream on my part, but look at the artists recording into their 60s and 70s now. and he does not have to tour it.

06 Oct 2006, 19:21	#21
michael.c Loafer Join Date: 07.12.2004 Location: belfast ireland Posts: 96	who ever did mention bat out of hell 2 , when bat 1 was released.