Problem with CHSIB poll on front page

[Shane]

In the poll, I am asked to choose between CHSIB and Testify as my favourite track on the album. I think this is unfair to those of us whose favourite track is something else. My favourite is Man Of Steel. I voted for it for my favourite from the second chapter, but what do I do now?

[Vickip]

Originally Posted by Shane

In the poll, I am asked to choose between CHSIB and Testify as my favourite track on the album. I think this is unfair to those of us whose favourite track is something else. My favourite is Man Of Steel. I voted for it for my favourite from the second chapter, but what do I do now?

You're exactly right Shane !! My favorite track is Did I Say That ... and I can't vote for it either
Vicki

[R.]

Well - CHSIB was voted Best Track in Chapter One and Testify was voted Best Track in Chapter Two.
Best Track on The Album obviously must be CHSIB or Testify then. Am I right?

[Vickip]

Originally Posted by R.

Well - CHSIB was voted Best Track in Chapter One and Testify was voted Best Track in Chapter Two.
Best Track on The Album obviously must be CHSIB or Testify then. Am I right?

Ah yes .. makes sense to me
Thanks R !!

Vicki

[Shane]

Originally Posted by R.

Well - CHSIB was voted Best Track in Chapter One and Testify was voted Best Track in Chapter Two.
Best Track on The Album obviously must be CHSIB or Testify then. Am I right?

No, I disagree. The poll is asking voters for their opinion of the best track on the album. In my opinion, the best track is Man Of Steel. How am I meant to vote for it? This poll makes no sense to me. If you were to ask "Which of these two tracks do you like more?", then the poll would make sense. But the current question does not ask that. Obviously I voted for Man Of Steel as my favourite for the first chapter (interpreting that question to be asking the favourite out of the tracks listed). I think I voted for Testify as my favourite for the second chapter, and while I like it very much, it isn't what I consider to be the best.

In my opinion the people whose favourite is neither track have been disenfranchised.

[original sin]

So this is stage three of a poll then? if so I think it makes sense.
round one winner v. round 2 winner

[Vickip]

Originally Posted by original sin

So this is stage three of a poll then? if so I think it makes sense.
round one winner v. round 2 winner

Yes ... that's exactly what it is and it does make sense :)
Vicki

[R.]

That's why the two previous polls are still on the frontpage.

[Shane]

It still doesn't make sense to me, and I'm not able to be convinced by arguments to the contrary. As far as I'm concerned, it's a FACT that the poll (or at the very least the poll question) does not make sense. When I first saw the poll I thought there either was an error with the computer I was using, or that the person responsible for the poll had not finished inputting the options.

The correct and logical course of action would have been to have all CHSIB songs as options to vote for. As it stands, there are three groups of people:

• Those whose opinion of the best song is either CHSIB or Testify.
  Those who do not vote because their opinion of the best song is not listed.
  Those who feel compelled to vote for one of the songs when it is not their opinion of the best song.

[/list]

[original sin]

Shane
I can see where you are coming from but try looking at it this way............

When they do Miss World or Mr Universe, areas of a country may have heats to vote their regional finalist, these then go forward, for the vote to see who is going to represent the country, then all the individuals finalists will go forward to the vote for the Title. Once someone is out of the running you can't then go back and vote for some one who was voted out at regional level in the world level.

There was a poll for chapter one, there was a poll for chapter two, the tracks that got the most votes in these stages are pitted against each other, the canditate from each chapter being the majority vote.

hope this makes some kind of sense.

[Shane]

Originally Posted by original sin

Shane
I can see where you are coming from but try looking at it this way............

When they do Miss World or Mr Universe, areas of a country may have heats to vote their regional finalist, these then go forward, for the vote to see who is going to represent the country, then all the individuals finalists will go forward to the vote for the Title. Once someone is out of the running you can't then go back and vote for some one who was voted out at regional level in the world level.

There was a poll for chapter one, there was a poll for chapter two, the tracks that got the most votes in these stages are pitted against each other, the canditate from each chapter being the majority vote.

hope this makes some kind of sense.

I do understand what you mean. If you were to hold only one session of voting with all the regional finalists in all participating countries, there would probably be hundreds. It would probably be too difficult and time consuming to deal with hundreds of contestants. Given a choice and hundreds of options, deciding and voting may be very difficult. However, the woman chosen is not necessarily the most beautiful and I don't believe it is possible to claim that she is. Consider a situation in which one country's regional finalists (and therefore the final country representative) are very ugly, and another country's are very beautiful. It is possible that, if given the opportunity to consider all the regional finalists in the finals of the Miss World contest, that a regional finalist who would otherwise be unsuccessful would triumph over the ugly woman. That is the flaw I see in that sort of voting. The woman eventually chosen is merely the outcome of a vote and it is merely a coincidence that she is very beautiful. And of course, we all have different ideas about beauty. But on the album there are only 12 songs including the intermezzo. It is certainly possible to make a choice given this number of options. The most popular song might only get, say, 30% of the vote, but that's ok.

I do acknowledge that this type of voting (sometimes referred to as preferential voting) occurs in political situations, where the two most successful candidates from a first round then proceed to a second round and people can only choose from those two, and only one candidate is eventually chosen. In these situations, there is a need for the question (who should be chosen as the representative?) to be resolved. But this poll is not politics. When you're talking about favourite songs, that question does not need to be resolved. We can disagree and go on disagreeing forever, and that's ok. We don't need to chose just one, we don't need to reach a majority, the most popular song does not need to have over 50% of the vote, and it doesn't make sense to do so. Perhaps if the record company asked us to vote for one song to be released as a single, there can only be one outcome at that particular time and there is more at stake, and that would make sense (oh, how I wish the record company would let us decide the single in that manner!). If my memory is correct, there used to be a poll on meatloaf.de which had all the songs as options. This poll is what I consider proper. I don't recall if the most popular song received over 50% of the vote, but it doesn't matter.

Also, even if we were to agree that preferential voting and reaching a majority makes sense and is necessary in this case, the way it is carried out may very well yield a different result. If we were to hold several more rounds of voting, deleting the most unpopular song each time, it is quite possible (although not necessarily so) that we'd eventually reach two choices that are different than the ones in the poll. The mere possibility of this situation occurring is reason enough not to hold a poll of this type.

At the end of the day, you and I may go on disagreeing forvever. But the fact remains, Man Of Steel is my opinion of the best song on the album, and I cannot vote for it. Note that the question asks voters what they think the BEST song is. It doesn't ask them for their second preference or third or fourth or so on. The results won't give an accurate picture of everyone's FIRST preferences, which are the ones that matter. I'm not sure where I'd rank CHSIB, maybe second or third. This question will inevitably consist of voters' second or third preferences, even though it asks for the BEST (first preference) song. It doesn't make sense, imo, to have to indicate your second (or later) preference when asked for the BEST.

[shadow1000001]

Originally Posted by original sin

So this is stage three of a poll then? if so I think it makes sense.
round one winner v. round 2 winner

Good answer

[original sin]

Wasn't necessarily disagreeing with you Shane just though you didn't see how/why it had reached the stage it was now at, and was trying to help you.

I'm just lucky that my personal favourite Testify is there!