for everybody who thinks that.... - Page 2

BadAttitude · 31 Dec 2003, 00:43

Hi, Tim
I like you do not celebrate the holidays for many reasons,
The christian beleifs are not of my beliefs, I am native American and I worship in the way of the elders (the old beliefs). And you are right just because the date on the calendar changes it does not mean that your problems will go away, I have so many things going on in my life besides going to college full time that I also have to deal with: #1 I am a recovering alcoholic of 5 years and staying sober and true to myself and to those that I love is a daily constant, #2 the new year will bring with it the lose of losing more of the people that I love to death, #3 bills and bills and more bills will continue, #4 my husband's mental illness will probably not get any better and I will have to make decisions accordingly to what is best for me and my daughter.

All in all things will stay pretty much the same but some things will change, some things will change because I make them change, because there is a need for change. Because I have a daughter who loves me and because I know in my heart and soul that after all the pain that I have suffered in my life of being abused by others and abuse that I have inflected on my self (with the alcoholism), that life is worth living and is very precious. And the realization that I have come so far in dealing with the pain of the past that one day I will find true happiness.
Even thought it doesn’t seem like it sometimes that we are in control of our own destiny we are. We have the choice of how we handle things, not to say that we have control of what others do to us but we have the choice of how we react to it.
I do not celebrate the New Year my self, but I do spend the day in quite to honor and remember my brother who died and to honor and remember my ancestors who have passed. We can each celebrate New Year's in our own way that is what makes us unique.

Starting the new year does not have to be a happy time it can be a time of reflection and planning for the new year ahead.

Most importantly Tim spend the New Year doing what feels best for you, take the time to think about what you can do in the new year to handle the problems that you are having right know, and those that you might encounter in the new year, and what you can do to change them.

Tim I do wish you love and health and as much happiness as your heart can hold in the New Year. :)

Love & Happiness
Autumn

CarylB · 31 Dec 2003, 11:43

Every year of my life I have known sadness and I have known joy. This year has been no different, but for me the end of the year is a time to draw a line, to let sadness go and celebrate what makes my glass half full rather than half empty. Dieting is difficult .. but so much easier than watching my children suffer rickets. Bills have to be paid, but how lucky I am to have heat and clean water delivered to my home. Problems are there to be solved, and how fortunate I am that these have not been problems of basic survival, and that I have the means to solve them. Some people have hurt me, but I have good friends who have been there for me as I for them. There have been disappointments, but there have been wonderful times too. And all of this has been the case for those I care about and to whom, as we start a new year, I wish happiness. I wish them warmth, sustenance, friendship, health, strength and some good fortune in the coming year. May there be joys which make the year worthwhile, may their glass be half full rather than half empty, may their angels watch over them, may they be able to see the light that surrounds them, and may they stay forever young :)

plukie · 31 Dec 2003, 12:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarylB

Every year of my life I have known sadness and I have known joy. This year has been no different, but for me the end of the year is a time to draw a line, to let sadness go and celebrate what makes my glass half full rather than half empty. Dieting is difficult .. but so much easier than watching my children suffer rickets. Bills have to be paid, but how lucky I am to have heat and clean water delivered to my home. Problems are there to be solved, and how fortunate I am that these have not been problems of basic survival, and that I have the means to solve them. Some people have hurt me, but I have good friends who have been there for me as I for them. There have been disappointments, but there have been wonderful times too. And all of this has been the case for those I care about and to whom, as we start a new year, I wish happiness. I wish them warmth, sustenance, friendship, health, strength and some good fortune in the coming year. May there be joys which make the year worthwhile, may their glass be half full rather than half empty, may their angels watch over them, may they be able to see the light that surrounds them, and may they stay forever young :)

I don't always agree with what you say, but this time you are spot on. Well said.

plukie · 31 Dec 2003, 12:28

All I can say for you pessimists is that the long winter evenings must fly by in your houses. Smell the rain, and thank your lucky stars that you are alive to be able to do so.

DIZZY DRUMMER · 31 Dec 2003, 13:13

plukie wrote:

Quote:

There you go Tim, there are still some of us with hope! Fallen Angel has obviously had a bit of a time of it and I can assure you this has not been my best year, in fact just before Christmas I had some really bad news regarding my daughters health, but you have to have hope. If you haven't got hope you have nothing. So I wish you a happy new year as well, that means that I wish you a new year that was better than the last. It doesn't mean that it will solve any world problems or local problems like bills dropping through the door, it just means that I wish you a better new year, now that didn't hurt did it. There are far more people around who are worse off than me and you and I expect they are wishing for a happier new year as well.

Thanks plukie - no I did not have a good year & next year won't be either, but if you are not positive about life then what is the point?
Things will get better for me and I will enjoy life despite everything.

Have a good evening everyone

Em · 31 Dec 2003, 13:59

FA1 wrote

Quote:

no I did not have a good year & next year won't be either, but if you are not positive about life then what is the point?
Things will get better for me and I will enjoy life despite everything.

Well said and nice to see this thread being taken over by optimists :)

I hope for all of you that the new year turns out better than you expect

Tim · 31 Dec 2003, 14:56

Who ever told you that i wasn't a optimistic?? Who every told you guys people who don't like old & new year and christmas are not optimistic people???

Who told you that... or are you guys, who think that, have a twisted mind and think if you don't like something, you are a negative person at once????

The Butcher.

Em · 31 Dec 2003, 15:16

Thanks for telling me I have a twisted mind Tim. :)

I do not like Christmas and New Year either and am usually glad when they are over. But a new year can be a time for evaluating your life and making changes.......if nothing else I get time off work and time to think about what I want to do. I don't have any problems with people who do want to celebrate either event, surely any reason to put reality aside for a while and celebrate life is good.
Glad to hear you are an optimist Tim

CarylB · 31 Dec 2003, 15:40

Realistic Tim's forecast:
and mine:)
The sh"t will go on people... nothing will change.
And the good times will continue .. and we can make some changes

Bills will come,
And I will pay them, glad that I had the services or goods for which they're due

bad weather also,
And the rain will fill our reservoirs, and the sun will shine too

war will continue,
Sadly yes .. and for some there will be peace

USA think they are superb,
My American friends will continue to be proud of their country, as I of mine

people will complain,
And people will rejoice, and thank others for service and friendship

people will continue with discriminate others,
And many of us will continue to challenge and fight discrimination, and a few may feel less discriminated against

we will curse, run out of money and so on!!!
And we will shout for joy, earn and save, and be glad for all those things in our half full glass that we have spent our money on .. :)
And if we're fortunate, that will include a wonderful Meat Loaf concert

.. and if it doesn't, we will still have the music :)

Bren · 31 Dec 2003, 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by plukie

All I can say for you pessimists is that the long winter evenings must fly by in your houses. Smell the rain, and thank your lucky stars that you are alive to be able to do so.

Being realistic is not the same as being pessimistic.

Bren · 31 Dec 2003, 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim

Who ever told you that i wasn't a optimistic?? Who every told you guys people who don't like old & new year and christmas are not optimistic people???

Who told you that... or are you guys, who think that, have a twisted mind and think if you don't like something, you are a negative person at once????

The Butcher.

I understand what what you are saying there Tim

To the others
My opinion ...
Not liking Christmas and new Year, does not make you a pessimist, nor does it mean that you are a negative person.It does not mean that you do not hope things will be different/better in the future.
Being realistic is not the same as being pessimistic.
When a persons views are different from your own, why pull them apart,attack or make fun of?
Why not accept that that is their opinion and leave it at that.....express your own opinion by all means, but without attacking other peoples

You should accept people as they are, for who they are, their beliefs and opinions are part of that.........Now THAT WOULD BE IN KEEPING WITH THE TRUE SPIRIT OF CHRISTMAS AND THE NEW YEAR

Bren

Tim · 31 Dec 2003, 18:05

Thank you bren.

I love to read the reactions here. Love to see that some people put a personal message here. Very brave and good.

BadAttitude: i hope 2004 brings you more luck, a good health and strenght.
Bren the Bat: hope things will turn in the right way in 2004, with no more surgeons but with good health.

The others: for you guys i wish a lot of strength, hope and respect, and good health.

The Butcher.

Em · 31 Dec 2003, 18:39

Quote:

Being realistic is not the same as being pessimistic.
When a persons views are different from your own, why pull them apart,attack or make fun of?
Why not accept that that is their opinion and leave it at that.....express your own opinion by all means, but without attacking other peoples

No being realistic is not the same as being pessimistic. But being realistic means seeing both good and bad sides to life. Tim does appear to just put forward the negative side, so should not be surprised at being considered a pessimist.

I don't think anyone has attacked anyone else in this thread although they may have disagreed with opinions and I don't think anyone has made fun of anyone else. Tim started an interesting discussion with his original post,
surely he wanted people to respond.

A Happy New Year to everyone

Tim · 31 Dec 2003, 19:29

Agree, a very intresting discussion. Love that.

But... no, i'm not a pessimistic person. Not at all, people who now me say that i'm very optimistic, busy and to kind. So... i'm only trying to be raw and hard.

The Butcher

ChrissybabezNI · 31 Dec 2003, 19:33

Well, what an optomist you are, certainly not one to push people to the brink of depression

DIZZY DRUMMER · 31 Dec 2003, 19:58

ChrissybabezNI wrote:

Quote:

Well, what an optomist you are, certainly not one to push people to the brink of depression

well said

plukie · 31 Dec 2003, 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bren

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim

Who ever told you that i wasn't a optimistic?? Who every told you guys people who don't like old & new year and christmas are not optimistic people???

Who told you that... or are you guys, who think that, have a twisted mind and think if you don't like something, you are a negative person at once????

The Butcher.

I understand what what you are saying there Tim

To the others
My opinion ...
Not liking Christmas and new Year, does not make you a pessimist, nor does it mean that you are a negative person.It does not mean that you do not hope things will be different/better in the future.
Being realistic is not the same as being pessimistic.
When a persons views are different from your own, why pull them apart,attack or make fun of?
Why not accept that that is their opinion and leave it at that.....express your own opinion by all means, but without attacking other peoples

You should accept people as they are, for who they are, their beliefs and opinions are part of that.........Now THAT WOULD BE IN KEEPING WITH THE TRUE SPIRIT OF CHRISTMAS AND THE NEW YEAR

Bren

I do accept other peoples opinions what I was saying in the first place was why be so miserable about wishing someone a better new year.
If we didn't have different opinions on things then life would be very, very boring with everybody agreeing. Live and let live but try not to depress others while you are living your life.

plukie · 31 Dec 2003, 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim

Agree, a very intresting discussion. Love that.

But... no, i'm not a pessimistic person. Not at all, people who now me say that i'm very optimistic, busy and to kind. So... i'm only trying to be raw and hard.

The Butcher

OK Tim, I wish you all that you wish for yourself in the New Year. Have a good one!! :) Enough said!

Tim · 01 Jan 2004, 02:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by plukie

I do accept other peoples opinions what I was saying in the first place was why be so miserable about wishing someone a better new year.
If we didn't have different opinions on things then life would be very, very boring with everybody agreeing. Live and let live but try not to depress others while you are living your life.

Your last sentence upset me very!! I am not depressing other people. If you feel that way, i'm sorry, you don't get the point of this discussion.

The Butcher.

Sue K · 01 Jan 2004, 02:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by plukie

You are a little ray of sunshine Tim! Is there nothing that makes you happy? You don't like Christmas, you don't want to wish anybody a happy new year, for Gods sake lighten up man, you are a long time dead and even then you won't be smiling.

... oh now.. with the RIGHT mortician... i'm sure it's possible ...

Sue K · 01 Jan 2004, 02:47

Bren the Bat said:

With New year and Christmas there is the expectation that you should be "happy" and "celebrate"and if you don't you are made to feel bad.

Bren... after two years of therapy... if nothing else ...i learned... no one MAKES you feel or do anything... YOU allow them ....

... but on the other hand... regardless how I feel... i try my best .. no matter what the circumstances be... not to p * ss on someone else's parade...

Tim · 01 Jan 2004, 11:30

YOu know what i think is strange. If you start a discussion, you have an opinion. But if you say something that they majority disagree with, you can't have a discussion, cause they think you are bad, say stupid things and ruin other peoples toughts, feelings etc.

What is than the purpose of a forum, a discussion or and opinion.

The Butcher.

plukie · 01 Jan 2004, 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim

Quote:

Originally Posted by plukie

I do accept other peoples opinions what I was saying in the first place was why be so miserable about wishing someone a better new year.
If we didn't have different opinions on things then life would be very, very boring with everybody agreeing. Live and let live but try not to depress others while you are living your life.

Your last sentence upset me very!! I am not depressing other people. If you feel that way, i'm sorry, you don't get the point of this discussion.

The Butcher.

I am sorry if I upset you, that was not what I intended. You certainly depressed me with your comments about how the year will be and as for me not getting the point of the discussion, I think it was me who more or less started the discussion, so yes I do get the point. However, I have now given up trying to make you see my point. So have a whatever sort of life you want Tim, happy, sad, optimistic, pessimistic, whatever you want out of life. I have had my say on this subject.

CarylB · 01 Jan 2004, 12:26

Tim, dear heart, I can't believe you didn't suspect you would provoke a reaction when you started this thread at a time when most people were cheerfully wishing each other good luck .. particularly as you concluded your opening salvo with
"So... who has a concrete plate in front of his head: good luck!! "

To suggest that those of us who don't view the coming year with only negative assumptions must have a concrete plate in front of our heads is hardly the same as saying "This is how I feel at the end of the year. How does everybody else feel?" .. is it? ..

No-one has said you are bad or stupid .. some have said that a view that sees only negative things for the coming year is pessimistic .. and to be fair there was little evidence of optimism in your forecast for 2004 was there? :P You say you're an optimist .. well good luck to you then .. and I'm sure you aren't the pessimist some might think from reading what you said .. but you threw a gauntlet into the arena and people took it up .. just as they did when you came in bah-humbugging at Christmas .. so pull that bottom lip back in before it trips you up you feisty old Dutchy you .. and I wish you all you wish yourself for the coming year

Bren · 01 Jan 2004, 12:59

-deleted-

31 Dec 2003, 00:43	#26
BadAttitude Super Loafer Join Date: 19.11.2003 Location: Florida Posts: 482	Hi, Tim I like you do not celebrate the holidays for many reasons, The christian beleifs are not of my beliefs, I am native American and I worship in the way of the elders (the old beliefs). And you are right just because the date on the calendar changes it does not mean that your problems will go away, I have so many things going on in my life besides going to college full time that I also have to deal with: #1 I am a recovering alcoholic of 5 years and staying sober and true to myself and to those that I love is a daily constant, #2 the new year will bring with it the lose of losing more of the people that I love to death, #3 bills and bills and more bills will continue, #4 my husband's mental illness will probably not get any better and I will have to make decisions accordingly to what is best for me and my daughter. All in all things will stay pretty much the same but some things will change, some things will change because I make them change, because there is a need for change. Because I have a daughter who loves me and because I know in my heart and soul that after all the pain that I have suffered in my life of being abused by others and abuse that I have inflected on my self (with the alcoholism), that life is worth living and is very precious. And the realization that I have come so far in dealing with the pain of the past that one day I will find true happiness. Even thought it doesn’t seem like it sometimes that we are in control of our own destiny we are. We have the choice of how we handle things, not to say that we have control of what others do to us but we have the choice of how we react to it. I do not celebrate the New Year my self, but I do spend the day in quite to honor and remember my brother who died and to honor and remember my ancestors who have passed. We can each celebrate New Year's in our own way that is what makes us unique. Starting the new year does not have to be a happy time it can be a time of reflection and planning for the new year ahead. Most importantly Tim spend the New Year doing what feels best for you, take the time to think about what you can do in the new year to handle the problems that you are having right know, and those that you might encounter in the new year, and what you can do to change them. Tim I do wish you love and health and as much happiness as your heart can hold in the New Year. :) Love & Happiness Autumn

31 Dec 2003, 11:43	#27
CarylB Mega Loafer Join Date: 16.04.2003 Location: Sheffield UK Posts: 5,910	Every year of my life I have known sadness and I have known joy. This year has been no different, but for me the end of the year is a time to draw a line, to let sadness go and celebrate what makes my glass half full rather than half empty. Dieting is difficult .. but so much easier than watching my children suffer rickets. Bills have to be paid, but how lucky I am to have heat and clean water delivered to my home. Problems are there to be solved, and how fortunate I am that these have not been problems of basic survival, and that I have the means to solve them. Some people have hurt me, but I have good friends who have been there for me as I for them. There have been disappointments, but there have been wonderful times too. And all of this has been the case for those I care about and to whom, as we start a new year, I wish happiness. I wish them warmth, sustenance, friendship, health, strength and some good fortune in the coming year. May there be joys which make the year worthwhile, may their glass be half full rather than half empty, may their angels watch over them, may they be able to see the light that surrounds them, and may they stay forever young :)

31 Dec 2003, 12:28	#29
plukie Senior Loafer Join Date: 18.07.2003 Location: Plymouth, Devon Posts: 199	All I can say for you pessimists is that the long winter evenings must fly by in your houses. Smell the rain, and thank your lucky stars that you are alive to be able to do so.

31 Dec 2003, 14:56	#32
Tim The Butcher Join Date: 14.04.2002 Location: Westervoort, The Netherlands Posts: 10,321	Who ever told you that i wasn't a optimistic?? Who every told you guys people who don't like old & new year and christmas are not optimistic people??? Who told you that... or are you guys, who think that, have a twisted mind and think if you don't like something, you are a negative person at once???? The Butcher.

31 Dec 2003, 15:16	#33
Em Super Loafer Join Date: 08.07.2003 Location: Sweden Posts: 495	Thanks for telling me I have a twisted mind Tim. :) I do not like Christmas and New Year either and am usually glad when they are over. But a new year can be a time for evaluating your life and making changes.......if nothing else I get time off work and time to think about what I want to do. I don't have any problems with people who do want to celebrate either event, surely any reason to put reality aside for a while and celebrate life is good. Glad to hear you are an optimist Tim

31 Dec 2003, 15:40	#34
CarylB Mega Loafer Join Date: 16.04.2003 Location: Sheffield UK Posts: 5,910	Realistic Tim's forecast: and mine:) The sh"t will go on people... nothing will change. And the good times will continue .. and we can make some changes Bills will come, And I will pay them, glad that I had the services or goods for which they're due bad weather also, And the rain will fill our reservoirs, and the sun will shine too war will continue, Sadly yes .. and for some there will be peace USA think they are superb, My American friends will continue to be proud of their country, as I of mine people will complain, And people will rejoice, and thank others for service and friendship people will continue with discriminate others, And many of us will continue to challenge and fight discrimination, and a few may feel less discriminated against we will curse, run out of money and so on!!! And we will shout for joy, earn and save, and be glad for all those things in our half full glass that we have spent our money on .. :) And if we're fortunate, that will include a wonderful Meat Loaf concert .. and if it doesn't, we will still have the music :)

31 Dec 2003, 18:05	#37
Tim The Butcher Join Date: 14.04.2002 Location: Westervoort, The Netherlands Posts: 10,321	Thank you bren. I love to read the reactions here. Love to see that some people put a personal message here. Very brave and good. BadAttitude: i hope 2004 brings you more luck, a good health and strenght. Bren the Bat: hope things will turn in the right way in 2004, with no more surgeons but with good health. The others: for you guys i wish a lot of strength, hope and respect, and good health. The Butcher.

31 Dec 2003, 19:29	#39
Tim The Butcher Join Date: 14.04.2002 Location: Westervoort, The Netherlands Posts: 10,321	Agree, a very intresting discussion. Love that. But... no, i'm not a pessimistic person. Not at all, people who now me say that i'm very optimistic, busy and to kind. So... i'm only trying to be raw and hard. The Butcher

31 Dec 2003, 19:33	#40
ChrissybabezNI Super Loafer Join Date: 18.11.2003 Location: Carrickfergus, Northern Ireland Posts: 352	Well, what an optomist you are, certainly not one to push people to the brink of depression

01 Jan 2004, 02:47	#46
Sue K Mega Loafer Join Date: 20.04.2003 Posts: 13,041	Bren the Bat said: With New year and Christmas there is the expectation that you should be "happy" and "celebrate"and if you don't you are made to feel bad. Bren... after two years of therapy... if nothing else ...i learned... no one MAKES you feel or do anything... YOU allow them .... ... but on the other hand... regardless how I feel... i try my best .. no matter what the circumstances be... not to p * ss on someone else's parade...

01 Jan 2004, 11:30	#47
Tim The Butcher Join Date: 14.04.2002 Location: Westervoort, The Netherlands Posts: 10,321	YOu know what i think is strange. If you start a discussion, you have an opinion. But if you say something that they majority disagree with, you can't have a discussion, cause they think you are bad, say stupid things and ruin other peoples toughts, feelings etc. What is than the purpose of a forum, a discussion or and opinion. The Butcher.

01 Jan 2004, 12:26	#49
CarylB Mega Loafer Join Date: 16.04.2003 Location: Sheffield UK Posts: 5,910	Tim, dear heart, I can't believe you didn't suspect you would provoke a reaction when you started this thread at a time when most people were cheerfully wishing each other good luck .. particularly as you concluded your opening salvo with "So... who has a concrete plate in front of his head: good luck!! " To suggest that those of us who don't view the coming year with only negative assumptions must have a concrete plate in front of our heads is hardly the same as saying "This is how I feel at the end of the year. How does everybody else feel?" .. is it? .. No-one has said you are bad or stupid .. some have said that a view that sees only negative things for the coming year is pessimistic .. and to be fair there was little evidence of optimism in your forecast for 2004 was there? :P You say you're an optimist .. well good luck to you then .. and I'm sure you aren't the pessimist some might think from reading what you said .. but you threw a gauntlet into the arena and people took it up .. just as they did when you came in bah-humbugging at Christmas .. so pull that bottom lip back in before it trips you up you feisty old Dutchy you .. and I wish you all you wish yourself for the coming year

01 Jan 2004, 12:59	#50
Bren The Bat Join Date: 23.03.2003 Location: Roosting on a Silver-Black Phantom Bike. Posts: 10,017	-deleted-