Comment about outwriting Jim Steinman...

Dave · 06 Apr 2003, 21:26

Recently there has been much talk about a comment that was made by Meat Loaf regarding the fact that Nikki Sixx of Motley Crew fame "outwrote" Jim Steinman when it came to the song Man Of Steel. It would appear that Meat Loaf, himself, has questioned when this quote was made. I feel it is in the best interest of all parties involved to review the source for a moment. The actuality of the statement is that Nikki Sixx, during an interview that appeared on Mtv.com said that Meat Loaf and his wife had telephoned him and said he had outwritten Jim Steinman shortly after Meat Loaf had heard the song Man Of Steel. To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever been able to obtain a quote from Meat Loaf saying this. Meat Loaf has even gone as far as to say, and I am not sure of the quote right offhand, but it goes something to the effect that "no one can write a song like Jimmy."
Please keep this in mind that we are going on secondhand information from Nikki Sixx during an interview with Mtv.com that he past along a comment that was supposedly made by Meat Loaf that he had outwritten Jim Steinman. This is a statement that cannot be verified at this time. You can view the interview with Nikki Sixx on Mtv.com by clicking http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/145...crue.jhtmlROCK ON FIRE BALL!!!

mariella · 07 Apr 2003, 08:43

Thank you, now we all know were that story came from.
Always a pleasure to visit your site, yesterday was special.

Keep up the good work!

Mariella

**The Flying Mouse** · 07 Apr 2003, 12:51

Hi David.
I haven't heard anything about this before.
Maybe Meat made an off the cuff joke something like "I think you've outwritten Jimmy on this one".Not the kind of remark that you would remember saying if said lightly,but if somebody like Meat said that to you,you would take it as a great compliment and you would never forget it.
I supose that it's one posible explaination

.
Not to take anything away from Meat's other songwritters,but he has said nobody writtes like Steinman.In fact I remember one interview where he said....
"I make him a better writter,and he makes me a better singer".
Food for thought

.

Michel · 07 Apr 2003, 22:23

I think Neil has right.

Meat probably said that as a kind of joke, because Man Of Steel is a very good song.

But I still think that nobody can write better songs than Jim. And no one can perform a Jim song like Meat. But Meat can perform songs like no one else can. Just listen to Forever Young. I think it's the best version of this song I've ever heard.

Bart · 07 Apr 2003, 22:28

yep, told you so

Guppie · 08 Apr 2003, 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michel

. But Meat can perform songs like no one else can. Just listen to Forever Young. I think it's the best version of this song I've ever heard.

Yep. I totally agree.

Bart · 08 Apr 2003, 11:15

yeah. me too

Fire Ball · 08 Apr 2003, 13:20

David,
I let a message on your site and the the Stienman site and now here. I never called Niki Sixx on the phone I've never talked to him on the phone, saw him at the management office and said thank you for the song, only talk was to James Michael about Changing the song after it was written, Just for all this information ,it is my least favorite song on the record, I would never give out this information except I'm so mad at the People on the Stienman Site for saying over and over again That I said this and I did not.
They tell more Lies about me and all they write about me is negitive. It's always a put down and how all records ,Shows of anykind the fact that I breath is bad. I have no idea why I'm hated so much on THE JIM STIENMAN SITE it does not make any sense. All Jim and I have done is really great work together. So they should stop all this hatered of me and rejoice in the fact we are working together again. I know I am. Now about CHSIB it is one of my best records I've done and I love it and it's what I'm talking about for the rest of year. Next year we can start to talk about BatIII

Fire Ball · 08 Apr 2003, 13:38

Just for all.......... This Information, ( in the middle of my last post)

Shane · 08 Apr 2003, 13:41

Thanks for clearing that up Meat! To tell you the truth, I read the original article that claimed Nikki Sixx said "that" comment, but at the time I had no reason to doubt it until now.

Man of Steel is my favourite of all the tracks, probably because of (1) the lyrics are so beautiful and what I can relate to, and (2) PEARL!!! Love You Out Loud is another particular favourite of mine because it is another song I can relate to well, I guess many of us have been in a situation in which we have really loved someone but have been unable to tell them for some reason. But it is so hard to choose...ALL THE TRACKS ARE GREAT!!

Thanks for letting Pearl duet with you on the album! She sounds wonderful. Please tell her so for me.

Dave · 08 Apr 2003, 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fire Ball

David,
I let a message on your site and the the Stienman site and now here. I never called Niki Sixx on the phone I've never talked to him on the phone, saw him at the management office and said thank you for the song, only talk was to James Michael about Changing the song after it was written, Just for all this information ,it is my least favorite song on the record, I would never give out this information except I'm so mad at the People on the Stienman Site for saying over and over again That I said this and I did not.

Thank you for clearing the air about this. I felt it should be important to remind people that Nikki said you called him, not that you said that statement yourself. Thank you for clearing the air about this!

As for BOOH3? Who needs that when we got an album full of awesome songs like we have with CHSIB? Meat, we all love you (with or without Jim). You should be totally satisfied with your efforts on this new CD. You did a great job.

We cannot wait for the announcement of more US tour dates. I am hoping to see you many times this tour. Just know that we love you and will always crusade to keep up your good name. You do good work!

Rock On Fire Ball!!!

**The Flying Mouse** · 08 Apr 2003, 13:54

Thanks for clearing that up Meat.
As for Steinman fans not liking you,what the hell is their problem

.How somebody can call themselves a Steinman fan and not at the very least appreciate your work is beyond me

.
Everybody here is thrilled your working with Jimmy again and they should be too.
Anyway,as you say it's time to concentrate on CHSIB,and it's going straight to the top of the charts

.

Feleena · 08 Apr 2003, 13:59

Hi Fire Ball!!

I love the new Album too!!! Good work!!

As for getting back with Jimmy hope all goes well with that!

Hugs

Feleena x

Guppie · 08 Apr 2003, 14:53

Hey Meat,
Just tell those people that hate you to stick their comments where the sun don't shine. :)
Guppie

Anonymous · 08 Apr 2003, 15:37

With or without Jim you are a great singer and you have proved that on the albums done with Steinman and the ones done without him like CHSIB. I can't understand why they slag you off?? has it been going on for long?? I think they are jelous as you are having so much sucsees on your own without Jim. Don't worry their opinoions will change when you start work on BatIII, C ya Meat

Michel · 08 Apr 2003, 16:07

I absolutely don't get it. Why do Meat fans like Jim, and do Jim fans don't like Meat. I absolutely can't understand that.

Bart · 08 Apr 2003, 22:19

Who are those people on that site? fans? are they here too? Well, infact they can have an opinion but i don't understand how you can be a jim fan and at the same time not a meatfan. Until this moment i always thought it'll go together, like a lock and a key, like Lennon and Mccartney, like Fred and Wilma.

MBrevard · 08 Apr 2003, 22:48

Hi, Meat! I'm sorry. I don't post very often. I'm here at least once every day, but I'm still shy about all this. I'll probably always be a Rookie here. But this is a topic which has been playing in my mind for quite a while now, even before both your recent comments, and I can't sit quietly by this time and say nothing.

I am one of the older members of this group. In my lifetime, I have only been involved in two fandoms and sadly now, this same thing has happened in both of them. I have long been simultaneously amazed, appalled and sometimes, even horrified to read reactions about you at the Steinman site. When you posted there a couple months ago about the upcoming tour, I had an actual shudder go down my spine, as I awaited what I thought would be the onslaught to come. Thankfully, only two people responded: one with a semi-sarcastic remark and our Markus at this forum, who was happy to greet you, as you deserved to be, at their messageboard. I felt great relief.

I have long tried to understand this animosity some of the members of the Steinman forum seem to feel toward you. From what I have seen around the net, this is not your first time dealing with this subject, and it is obviously a sore point with you.

It's very difficult to make sense of something which has none. I guess I'm lucky that I've never had any problem enjoying both of you and the things you do together, as well as individually. But (and I hate to put words or feelings in anyone else's mouth--I have enough problems putting them in my own :) ) I have long gotten the feeling that the reactions some of these people have toward you go back to the early problems you had with Jim and his feelings then, as you described in the book. Somehow, that strained relationship needs to be maintained, even if it no longer exists (and obviously doesn't or you wouldn't continue to work with one another); that liking you is in some way being disloyal to Jim. I'm not sure this is even going on at any kind of conscious level. So many things we fans do, are not. This is just my theory. It may or may not be true, but it's the only way I've been able to explain it to myself, in trying to make some sense of it.

Again, these are just MY feelings, as I have read their messages for quite some time, but they seem to resent any time you give yourself credit for anything having to do with the success of the albums you both did together, as if somehow, when you show pride or discuss your part in those projects, it takes away from Jim's contribution. I find it very sad some can't seem to understand that it was a "partnership"--that both of you brought much to the mix and that nothing would have been accomplished if either of you had been missing from it!

I have found the same sort of thing in the other fandom I was involved in, as well. But I've never understood how putting one person down, helps to lift someone else up. It makes no sense to me. When people work together, aren't they ALL doing their best when things go well for EVERYONE?? When you're working as a team, then the object is for everyone in that team to do their part and work together. One part of that team isn't better than the rest. Everyone adds to it--or subtracts from it when things don't go smoothly...

The funny thing is, Meat, I think a lot of these people really DO like you--if nothing else than as being the person who performs Jim's songs better than anyone in the world. I think that a number of them actually go to your shows--some quietly, others talk about them openly. So, there is this dichotomy which has been set up there and nothing is being done to dispell it--either by Jim or by the person who runs the site, who knows him. And as long as that is the case, nothing will change.

Certainly nothing you do or say will change it!

May I go on for a little while longer on a related subject (I'm sorry--I said I don't write often, but once I get going...)?

Let's try to put all this into perspective, since you seem to be SO upset by it.

For a very long time, we ran a large club and website for another actor. He is a very dear friend. And he used to tell us stories about what he called the "Kafka Korridors." He used to have a big TV series and every autumn, when the network was doing its Fall Promotion, they set up one floor in a hotel and all the actors would go from room to room, to be interviewed by different newspapers, TV, magazine reporters waiting for them in these rooms. This was his K.K. And he told us that there were always certain reporters there who would deliberately try to upset him, excite him, get him to blow up. Their questions were always inflamatory. We were shocked, having no idea that this went on and asked him why in the world they would do this. What was the point? His response was "because they could; because they wanted to."

I'm sure you've had more than your share of reporters who do the same thing with you. MY point in bringing this up is that there will always be people out there with certain agendas. And I'm not just talking about reporters or reviewers. But sadly, there are fans who have them, as well: a sad lesson we learned in our other fandom. And I cried many a tear over them, until I realized what was happening. Thankfully, most fans are terrific. They have nothing but love in their heart, with no ulterior motives. But it's always good to remember that there are some who, like the reporters above, have other needs or plans, who love to stir the pot until it boils over.

You need to stay above all this "crap," for lack of a better word--well, I have a better word, but I'll refrain from using it here. You can't allow yourself to be openly hurt by any of this. Because what we learned all too well, was that once you show this vulnerability, these particular fans will continue to go after you with a vengeance. They've found a soft spot and they'll go right for it every time!!

Besides, how many people are we talking about?? I haven't counted exactly, but it feels as though there are about 25 people posting at the Steinman list--it may be a bit more, and I'm certain there are a LOT more, like me, who don't post, but who visit there to read what's been said. The exact number doesn't really matter. Only about ten or so actively write in a negative way about you. But there are MILLIONS of people around the world who are going to pick up this new CD of yours and love it! Some will having been waiting for it (some of us a bit more impatiently than others); some will just be discovering you for the first time. During the next 15 months of touring (OMG, that's a LONG TIME!!), thousands of people will excitedly be buying tickets and awaiting their chance to see you perform live.

10+ people, Meat, out of the billions of people in this planet!! That's less than ONE DROP OF WATER in the ocean!! You see what I'm saying?? If the people on that list don't want to openly like you, stay away from them!!! You don't NEED them! You have US!!!!!! WE are your army! And by "we" I don't just mean the people at this forum, but your millions of fans out here! WE are the only ones who count!!

Sadly, and I know I'm not telling you anything you don't already know, you will never be liked by everyone in this world, as much as you'd like to be. Your talents will never be appreciated by everyone. No one's are. You will never get 100% positive reviews for anything you do.

But in the end, does that matter??

Right now, you need to turn all your energies positive to promote the new album and get yourself ready for this herculean tour ahead of you. I know you are here to "get things right" as your profile indicates, and every single one of us at this forum can't thank you enough for that! Frankly, I can't think of many other people in your position who would take the time to do this sort of thing (and do it in the way you have chosen to--by being one of us). I think it is your humanness and your willingness to show it to us that makes you so very special in our hearts. But you just can't afford to let yourself get upset at things that are beyond your control.

If you read or see something upsetting, let it go! Instead, come to US! Come here or go to any of the other wonderful Meat Loaf sites around the net--places where we celebrate having you in our lives every single day! THIS is what you need right now!! WE are the people who must matter to you--NOT the 10 or so people on someone else's site who, for one reason or another, choose not to like you!!!

WE like you! We LOVE you! We support YOU!! That's why each and every one of us come here every day, to be with you, in whatever way that is to be. If there's a bad review or article, let US rail about it for you! God knows, we're all great at that!!! Let US be your army right now to take up the bad! YOU, dear soul, concentrate on the good!!

For the past several weeks, and I know I'm not alone in saying this, I have felt here a growing sense of excitement and a feeling that this is going to be an AMAZING time for you!! And nothing could make us happier. I think (hope) we all agree with you that now's the time to put Bat III to rest for a while and concentrate on what's REALLY important: CHSIB and the upcoming tour!!

I, for one, can't wait for my album (coming from the UK WHEN????

) AND seeing you again this summer at Saratoga and Kelseyville!! Just got our tickets for the first, and we are eagerly awaiting the second's availability this coming Sunday!!!

I don't believe the length of this post! You all must be blind by now!! Hey, R., could we maybe count this as SEVERAL postings instead of just one.

I might just make it out of 'Rookie' yet!!

With the way of the world right now, I send each of you love and a wish for peace and safety!

And as always, Meat, I send much love and hugs to you and everyone there!! Can't wait to see you in June!!

White of High · 08 Apr 2003, 22:53

You said from my heart...

Bart · 08 Apr 2003, 23:05

hallelujah, amen brother!

R. · 08 Apr 2003, 23:07

So true. Let's do not forget why this site is around.

R.

Oh ... I cannot manipulate the post count.
Hey, it's only 20 posts to go.

Guppie · 08 Apr 2003, 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.

So true. Let's do not forget why this site is around.

R.

Oh ... I cannot manipulate the post count.
Hey, it's only 20 posts to go.

Sure you can... manipulate the post count I mean. Hey, I'm an admin myself and I can mess with just about everything. Oh... the POWER..

For mr/ms/mrs rookie, MBrevard, very well put.
Was just wondering... where can I find this forum where the people say such nasty things about the Meatman?

R. · 08 Apr 2003, 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guppie

Sure you can... manipulate the post count I mean. Hey, I'm an admin myself and I can mess with just about everything. Oh... the POWER..

That does not work for this customized release of phpBB.
The post count synchronizes itself from time to time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guppie

Was just wondering... where can I find this forum where the people say such nasty things about the Meatman?

As of now - nowhere.

R.

Guppie · 08 Apr 2003, 23:26

lol about the as of now - nowhere remark, he he he...

Oh, I have a yabbSE board so I can mess with the postcount (I don't but I could) That's also php/sql based so I thought you could do that too. And also because Satan keeps having 666 posts

Anonymous · 08 Apr 2003, 23:39

that was a great post well said,,ok jim is a fantastic writer,,we all know that,,but there is not a chance in hell,that anyone could perform a jim song like meat,,to tell you the truth,i think meat is 60 percent of the partnership,,why because he is the voice,and the visual effects,,true that nobody writes like jim,,and i love jims work,,but 4 me meat is bat out of hell,he is the monster of rock that exploded on 2 the scene in 77,,who else could sing those songs,,,i first seen the booh video when i was 11,,and it scared me to death [ sad i know ] but to see this man snarling,eyes bulging,sweat pumping,and a voice so powerful was like no other video i had ever seen,,,so meat if u get anymore remarks of this nature,,,please respond with,,,listen to chsib

06 Apr 2003, 21:26	#1
Dave Mega Loafer Join Date: 12.04.2002 Location: Southern Ohio - United States of America Posts: 2,564	Comment about outwriting Jim Steinman... Recently there has been much talk about a comment that was made by Meat Loaf regarding the fact that Nikki Sixx of Motley Crew fame "outwrote" Jim Steinman when it came to the song Man Of Steel. It would appear that Meat Loaf, himself, has questioned when this quote was made. I feel it is in the best interest of all parties involved to review the source for a moment. The actuality of the statement is that Nikki Sixx, during an interview that appeared on Mtv.com said that Meat Loaf and his wife had telephoned him and said he had outwritten Jim Steinman shortly after Meat Loaf had heard the song Man Of Steel. To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever been able to obtain a quote from Meat Loaf saying this. Meat Loaf has even gone as far as to say, and I am not sure of the quote right offhand, but it goes something to the effect that "no one can write a song like Jimmy." Please keep this in mind that we are going on secondhand information from Nikki Sixx during an interview with Mtv.com that he past along a comment that was supposedly made by Meat Loaf that he had outwritten Jim Steinman. This is a statement that cannot be verified at this time. You can view the interview with Nikki Sixx on Mtv.com by clicking http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/145...crue.jhtmlROCK ON FIRE BALL!!!

08 Apr 2003, 13:20	#8
Fire Ball Himself Join Date: 05.02.2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 1,044	enough David, I let a message on your site and the the Stienman site and now here. I never called Niki Sixx on the phone I've never talked to him on the phone, saw him at the management office and said thank you for the song, only talk was to James Michael about Changing the song after it was written, Just for all this information ,it is my least favorite song on the record, I would never give out this information except I'm so mad at the People on the Stienman Site for saying over and over again That I said this and I did not. They tell more Lies about me and all they write about me is negitive. It's always a put down and how all records ,Shows of anykind the fact that I breath is bad. I have no idea why I'm hated so much on THE JIM STIENMAN SITE it does not make any sense. All Jim and I have done is really great work together. So they should stop all this hatered of me and rejoice in the fact we are working together again. I know I am. Now about CHSIB it is one of my best records I've done and I love it and it's what I'm talking about for the rest of year. Next year we can start to talk about BatIII

08 Apr 2003, 13:38	#9
Fire Ball Himself Join Date: 05.02.2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 1,044	correction Just for all.......... This Information, ( in the middle of my last post)

08 Apr 2003, 13:41	#10
Shane Super Loafer Join Date: 30.04.2002 Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand (GMT+12) Posts: 608	Thanks Thanks for clearing that up Meat! To tell you the truth, I read the original article that claimed Nikki Sixx said "that" comment, but at the time I had no reason to doubt it until now. Man of Steel is my favourite of all the tracks, probably because of (1) the lyrics are so beautiful and what I can relate to, and (2) PEARL!!! Love You Out Loud is another particular favourite of mine because it is another song I can relate to well, I guess many of us have been in a situation in which we have really loved someone but have been unable to tell them for some reason. But it is so hard to choose...ALL THE TRACKS ARE GREAT!! Thanks for letting Pearl duet with you on the album! She sounds wonderful. Please tell her so for me.

07 Apr 2003, 08:43	#2
mariella Mega Loafer Join Date: 04.02.2003 Location: Holland Posts: 4,063	Thank you, now we all know were that story came from. Always a pleasure to visit your site, yesterday was special. Keep up the good work! Mariella

07 Apr 2003, 12:51	#3
The Flying Mouse Armed ba$tard and Jo's other half. Join Date: 06.08.2002 Location: In the middle of nowhere near the end of the line. Posts: 16,104	Hi David. I haven't heard anything about this before. Maybe Meat made an off the cuff joke something like "I think you've outwritten Jimmy on this one".Not the kind of remark that you would remember saying if said lightly,but if somebody like Meat said that to you,you would take it as a great compliment and you would never forget it. I supose that it's one posible explaination . Not to take anything away from Meat's other songwritters,but he has said nobody writtes like Steinman.In fact I remember one interview where he said.... "I make him a better writter,and he makes me a better singer". Food for thought .

07 Apr 2003, 22:23	#4
Michel Mega Loafer Join Date: 14.04.2002 Location: Stadskanaal, The Netherlands Posts: 1,631	I think Neil has right. Meat probably said that as a kind of joke, because Man Of Steel is a very good song. But I still think that nobody can write better songs than Jim. And no one can perform a Jim song like Meat. But Meat can perform songs like no one else can. Just listen to Forever Young. I think it's the best version of this song I've ever heard.

07 Apr 2003, 22:28	#5
Bart Bald Mega Loafer Join Date: 06.03.2003 Location: Holland, but I prefer Greece Posts: 2,243	yep, told you so

08 Apr 2003, 11:15	#7
Bart Bald Mega Loafer Join Date: 06.03.2003 Location: Holland, but I prefer Greece Posts: 2,243	yeah. me too

08 Apr 2003, 13:54	#12
The Flying Mouse Armed ba$tard and Jo's other half. Join Date: 06.08.2002 Location: In the middle of nowhere near the end of the line. Posts: 16,104	Thanks for clearing that up Meat. As for Steinman fans not liking you,what the hell is their problem .How somebody can call themselves a Steinman fan and not at the very least appreciate your work is beyond me . Everybody here is thrilled your working with Jimmy again and they should be too. Anyway,as you say it's time to concentrate on CHSIB,and it's going straight to the top of the charts .

08 Apr 2003, 13:59	#13
Feleena Super Loafer Join Date: 14.04.2002 Location: Bedford UK Posts: 562	Hi Fire Ball!! I love the new Album too!!! Good work!! As for getting back with Jimmy hope all goes well with that! Hugs Feleena x

08 Apr 2003, 14:53	#14
Guppie www.meat-loaf.nl Join Date: 28.12.2002 Location: Brabant, The Netherlands Posts: 1,300	Hey Meat, Just tell those people that hate you to stick their comments where the sun don't shine. :) Guppie

08 Apr 2003, 15:37	#15
Anonymous Guest Post Container Join Date: 02.04.2002 Posts: 496	With or without Jim you are a great singer and you have proved that on the albums done with Steinman and the ones done without him like CHSIB. I can't understand why they slag you off?? has it been going on for long?? I think they are jelous as you are having so much sucsees on your own without Jim. Don't worry their opinoions will change when you start work on BatIII, C ya Meat

08 Apr 2003, 16:07	#16
Michel Mega Loafer Join Date: 14.04.2002 Location: Stadskanaal, The Netherlands Posts: 1,631	I absolutely don't get it. Why do Meat fans like Jim, and do Jim fans don't like Meat. I absolutely can't understand that.

08 Apr 2003, 22:19	#17
Bart Bald Mega Loafer Join Date: 06.03.2003 Location: Holland, but I prefer Greece Posts: 2,243	Who are those people on that site? fans? are they here too? Well, infact they can have an opinion but i don't understand how you can be a jim fan and at the same time not a meatfan. Until this moment i always thought it'll go together, like a lock and a key, like Lennon and Mccartney, like Fred and Wilma.

08 Apr 2003, 22:48	#18
MBrevard Super Loafer Join Date: 06.02.2003 Location: Deceased Posts: 761	Hi, Meat! I'm sorry. I don't post very often. I'm here at least once every day, but I'm still shy about all this. I'll probably always be a Rookie here. But this is a topic which has been playing in my mind for quite a while now, even before both your recent comments, and I can't sit quietly by this time and say nothing. I am one of the older members of this group. In my lifetime, I have only been involved in two fandoms and sadly now, this same thing has happened in both of them. I have long been simultaneously amazed, appalled and sometimes, even horrified to read reactions about you at the Steinman site. When you posted there a couple months ago about the upcoming tour, I had an actual shudder go down my spine, as I awaited what I thought would be the onslaught to come. Thankfully, only two people responded: one with a semi-sarcastic remark and our Markus at this forum, who was happy to greet you, as you deserved to be, at their messageboard. I felt great relief. I have long tried to understand this animosity some of the members of the Steinman forum seem to feel toward you. From what I have seen around the net, this is not your first time dealing with this subject, and it is obviously a sore point with you. It's very difficult to make sense of something which has none. I guess I'm lucky that I've never had any problem enjoying both of you and the things you do together, as well as individually. But (and I hate to put words or feelings in anyone else's mouth--I have enough problems putting them in my own :) ) I have long gotten the feeling that the reactions some of these people have toward you go back to the early problems you had with Jim and his feelings then, as you described in the book. Somehow, that strained relationship needs to be maintained, even if it no longer exists (and obviously doesn't or you wouldn't continue to work with one another); that liking you is in some way being disloyal to Jim. I'm not sure this is even going on at any kind of conscious level. So many things we fans do, are not. This is just my theory. It may or may not be true, but it's the only way I've been able to explain it to myself, in trying to make some sense of it. Again, these are just MY feelings, as I have read their messages for quite some time, but they seem to resent any time you give yourself credit for anything having to do with the success of the albums you both did together, as if somehow, when you show pride or discuss your part in those projects, it takes away from Jim's contribution. I find it very sad some can't seem to understand that it was a "partnership"--that both of you brought much to the mix and that nothing would have been accomplished if either of you had been missing from it! I have found the same sort of thing in the other fandom I was involved in, as well. But I've never understood how putting one person down, helps to lift someone else up. It makes no sense to me. When people work together, aren't they ALL doing their best when things go well for EVERYONE?? When you're working as a team, then the object is for everyone in that team to do their part and work together. One part of that team isn't better than the rest. Everyone adds to it--or subtracts from it when things don't go smoothly... The funny thing is, Meat, I think a lot of these people really DO like you--if nothing else than as being the person who performs Jim's songs better than anyone in the world. I think that a number of them actually go to your shows--some quietly, others talk about them openly. So, there is this dichotomy which has been set up there and nothing is being done to dispell it--either by Jim or by the person who runs the site, who knows him. And as long as that is the case, nothing will change. Certainly nothing you do or say will change it! May I go on for a little while longer on a related subject (I'm sorry--I said I don't write often, but once I get going...)? Let's try to put all this into perspective, since you seem to be SO upset by it. For a very long time, we ran a large club and website for another actor. He is a very dear friend. And he used to tell us stories about what he called the "Kafka Korridors." He used to have a big TV series and every autumn, when the network was doing its Fall Promotion, they set up one floor in a hotel and all the actors would go from room to room, to be interviewed by different newspapers, TV, magazine reporters waiting for them in these rooms. This was his K.K. And he told us that there were always certain reporters there who would deliberately try to upset him, excite him, get him to blow up. Their questions were always inflamatory. We were shocked, having no idea that this went on and asked him why in the world they would do this. What was the point? His response was "because they could; because they wanted to." I'm sure you've had more than your share of reporters who do the same thing with you. MY point in bringing this up is that there will always be people out there with certain agendas. And I'm not just talking about reporters or reviewers. But sadly, there are fans who have them, as well: a sad lesson we learned in our other fandom. And I cried many a tear over them, until I realized what was happening. Thankfully, most fans are terrific. They have nothing but love in their heart, with no ulterior motives. But it's always good to remember that there are some who, like the reporters above, have other needs or plans, who love to stir the pot until it boils over. You need to stay above all this "crap," for lack of a better word--well, I have a better word, but I'll refrain from using it here. You can't allow yourself to be openly hurt by any of this. Because what we learned all too well, was that once you show this vulnerability, these particular fans will continue to go after you with a vengeance. They've found a soft spot and they'll go right for it every time!! Besides, how many people are we talking about?? I haven't counted exactly, but it feels as though there are about 25 people posting at the Steinman list--it may be a bit more, and I'm certain there are a LOT more, like me, who don't post, but who visit there to read what's been said. The exact number doesn't really matter. Only about ten or so actively write in a negative way about you. But there are MILLIONS of people around the world who are going to pick up this new CD of yours and love it! Some will having been waiting for it (some of us a bit more impatiently than others); some will just be discovering you for the first time. During the next 15 months of touring (OMG, that's a LONG TIME!!), thousands of people will excitedly be buying tickets and awaiting their chance to see you perform live. 10+ people, Meat, out of the billions of people in this planet!! That's less than ONE DROP OF WATER in the ocean!! You see what I'm saying?? If the people on that list don't want to openly like you, stay away from them!!! You don't NEED them! You have US!!!!!! WE are your army! And by "we" I don't just mean the people at this forum, but your millions of fans out here! WE are the only ones who count!! Sadly, and I know I'm not telling you anything you don't already know, you will never be liked by everyone in this world, as much as you'd like to be. Your talents will never be appreciated by everyone. No one's are. You will never get 100% positive reviews for anything you do. But in the end, does that matter?? Right now, you need to turn all your energies positive to promote the new album and get yourself ready for this herculean tour ahead of you. I know you are here to "get things right" as your profile indicates, and every single one of us at this forum can't thank you enough for that! Frankly, I can't think of many other people in your position who would take the time to do this sort of thing (and do it in the way you have chosen to--by being one of us). I think it is your humanness and your willingness to show it to us that makes you so very special in our hearts. But you just can't afford to let yourself get upset at things that are beyond your control. If you read or see something upsetting, let it go! Instead, come to US! Come here or go to any of the other wonderful Meat Loaf sites around the net--places where we celebrate having you in our lives every single day! THIS is what you need right now!! WE are the people who must matter to you--NOT the 10 or so people on someone else's site who, for one reason or another, choose not to like you!!! WE like you! We LOVE you! We support YOU!! That's why each and every one of us come here every day, to be with you, in whatever way that is to be. If there's a bad review or article, let US rail about it for you! God knows, we're all great at that!!! Let US be your army right now to take up the bad! YOU, dear soul, concentrate on the good!! For the past several weeks, and I know I'm not alone in saying this, I have felt here a growing sense of excitement and a feeling that this is going to be an AMAZING time for you!! And nothing could make us happier. I think (hope) we all agree with you that now's the time to put Bat III to rest for a while and concentrate on what's REALLY important: CHSIB and the upcoming tour!! I, for one, can't wait for my album (coming from the UK WHEN???? ) AND seeing you again this summer at Saratoga and Kelseyville!! Just got our tickets for the first, and we are eagerly awaiting the second's availability this coming Sunday!!! I don't believe the length of this post! You all must be blind by now!! Hey, R., could we maybe count this as SEVERAL postings instead of just one. I might just make it out of 'Rookie' yet!! With the way of the world right now, I send each of you love and a wish for peace and safety! And as always, Meat, I send much love and hugs to you and everyone there!! Can't wait to see you in June!!

08 Apr 2003, 22:53	#19
White of High Nature's Siegfried Join Date: 27.05.2002 Location: Budapest, Hungary Posts: 2,930	You said from my heart...

08 Apr 2003, 23:05	#20
Bart Bald Mega Loafer Join Date: 06.03.2003 Location: Holland, but I prefer Greece Posts: 2,243	hallelujah, amen brother!

08 Apr 2003, 23:07	#21
R. You dig. Join Date: 02.04.2002 Location: On the fothermucker Posts: 7,179	So true. Let's do not forget why this site is around. R. Oh ... I cannot manipulate the post count. Hey, it's only 20 posts to go.

08 Apr 2003, 23:26	#24
Guppie www.meat-loaf.nl Join Date: 28.12.2002 Location: Brabant, The Netherlands Posts: 1,300	lol about the as of now - nowhere remark, he he he... Oh, I have a yabbSE board so I can mess with the postcount (I don't but I could) That's also php/sql based so I thought you could do that too. And also because Satan keeps having 666 posts

08 Apr 2003, 23:39	#25
Anonymous Guest Post Container Join Date: 02.04.2002 Posts: 496	that was a great post well said,,ok jim is a fantastic writer,,we all know that,,but there is not a chance in hell,that anyone could perform a jim song like meat,,to tell you the truth,i think meat is 60 percent of the partnership,,why because he is the voice,and the visual effects,,true that nobody writes like jim,,and i love jims work,,but 4 me meat is bat out of hell,he is the monster of rock that exploded on 2 the scene in 77,,who else could sing those songs,,,i first seen the booh video when i was 11,,and it scared me to death [ sad i know ] but to see this man snarling,eyes bulging,sweat pumping,and a voice so powerful was like no other video i had ever seen,,,so meat if u get anymore remarks of this nature,,,please respond with,,,listen to chsib