Patti has been tweeting again....

[Adje]

Originally Posted by ThatWriterGuy

due to your continual selective reading,

Something with a pot and a kettle....

From the way you responded to my post (or better avoided most of it) it's very clear that, whatever your motives are, they have nothing to do with good intentions.

Originally Posted by ThatWriterGuy

You're also free to ignore her, and me, and based on the content of your continued replies you probably should.

Patti doesn't need your advice, and she certainly doesn't need your constant ridiculing of her mental health. You want to carry this on, this harassment, that's on you. I wouldn't advise it - and that's friendly advice - but you're free to do whatever you like.

I'd rather you didn't, but that's just me.

And stop playing the harrassement card. It doesn't suit you. You can't have it both ways. You can't say to me (or anyone else) "what you say about Patti is unfunded and I friendly advice you to keep it to yourself" and at the same time do exactly the same about Meat and call it "Stuff that clearly needs to be said"

That said, thank you for your 'friendly' advice and let me be so kind to give some advice of my own:
Read back your own post and perhaps follow your own wisdom

Originally Posted by ThatWriterGuy

Go about your life.
Listen to the music that you love.
Honestly, it's a short trip.
Enjoy it.
Do better things.

Best advice you could give yourself. But we both know it's not what you want.

You may be happy to know I actually take up on your advice. I have said what I needed to say and I found the answers I (unfortunately) expected to find. So it's no use for me to continue this.

And I actually sincerely wish you well, Despite our complete disagreement on the matter

[ThatWriterGuy]

Well, that wasn't transparent at all.

That's another one for the Sandmage list.

Some people never learn.

[ThatWriterGuy]

Things I'll address for the sake of clarity:

Originally Posted by Adje

From the way you responded to my post (or better avoided most of it) it's very clear that, whatever your motives are, they have nothing to do with good intentions.

So let's examine my intentions.
Money?
Nope. Could've/would've/should've taken up any number of publications who asked.
Didn't.
Defamation? Nope. Could've/would've/should've told the entire story, exactly as it happened, blow-for-blow and sparing no one.
Didn't.
Self-promotion? Nope. Could've published a memoir courted by Polgon, an imprint of the Birlilnn Group, who were more than enthusiastic pre-pandemic and approached me in the first instance.
What happened?
Didn't.

The only questions I didn't answer were the ones that I have already answered within this thread.

The only other questions I didn't answer were the moronic ones.

Originally Posted by Adje

And stop playing the harrassement card. It doesn't suit you. You can't have it both ways. You can't say to me (or anyone else) "what you say about Patti is unfunded and I friendly advice you to keep it to yourself" and at the same time do exactly the same about Meat and call it "Stuff that clearly needs to be said"

There's a fundamental difference here. I have worked with these people for half a decade and experienced this first hand. Patti is a very close and dear friend. I've spoken with many ex collaborators. We went through some crazy shit. You did not. You have no exposure to either of our industries, and only have a naively biased fans-eye view of the individuals involved (the last time I'll be generous with you).

Harassment/Harasser. Here's a definition: misguided and/or willfully malignant individual who takes it upon himself to continually criticize the mental health of a world class vocalist, unsolicited and with hostile intent.

Granted, that's not the Merriam-Webster definition.
Close enough.

You ended with a paragraph straight out of The Sandmage Book For Obvious Trolls. Totally disingenuous, passive aggressive, and transparent in the extreme.

That's why you're on the sandmage list.

[ajf33]

Mods, it might be worth locking this thread, there's nothing constructive in here, and it's just becoming a war of words between TWG and Adje.

Nothing against either of them, but it's getting way off topic IMO

[letsgotoofar]

And while we're at it, why is it a matter of news every time Patti posts something? I think what she says is important too, but all these threads ever do is spark an unnecessary battle. How about Patti says what she says, we feel what we feel, and any addressing (or lack thereof) just happens off the forum, if at all? Can we do that?

[nightinr]

TWG...do you happen to know if Patti has any live shows planned either solo or collaborations planned?

No worries if you don't, but we have missed that voice and stage persona!

[Frying Bat]

IMHO all these post about Patti and her tweets, have no business in here, they belong to the gossip department of the SUN..this is a Meat Loaf forum (and this place should in the first place be about Music/Performance,whether that be on stage or in a movie)... i have noticed that it are always the same 2 people who like to talk and post about miss Russo's rants... i think we have put our self, far away from speculations and here say and focus on that what this place is about in the first place

[ThatWriterGuy]

Originally Posted by Frying Bat

IMHO all these post about Patti and her tweets, have no business in here, they belong to the gossip department of the SUN..this is a Meat Loaf forum (and this place should in the first place be about Music/Performance,whether that be on stage or in a movie)... i have noticed that it are always the same 2 people who like to talk and post about miss Russo's rants... i think we have put our self, far away from speculations and here say and focus on that what this place is about in the first place

I would agree with this.

We've been kicking around the idea of discussing the 80s albums in their entirety, possibly Patti and myself, maybe one of the Goff Sisters, maybe someone completely unrelated but a prominent name in today's music scene.

These albums get little exposure given the bookend, sandwiched between two seminal Bat albums. But there's a lot to like. I'm a fan of this era in general.

Maybe that'll happen.
I'd love to do it given the time.

[ThatWriterGuy]

Originally Posted by nightinr

TWG...do you happen to know if Patti has any live shows planned either solo or collaborations planned?

No worries if you don't, but we have missed that voice and stage persona!

As already stated, Patti is going through something of a crisis right now.

Prior to this, there were plans for a longterm residency, then lockdown happened and that was suspended.

More recently, other interesting developments in a slightly different capacity.

I'll keep you posted.

We talked yesterday over the phone for around 2 hours. All is good. Anything interesting coming up and you'll hear about first via KS.

[roomster]

Originally Posted by ajf33

Mods, it might be worth locking this thread, there's nothing constructive in here, and it's just becoming a war of words between TWG and Adje.

Why should censorship and closing of threads always be the solution?

It is sadly not possible to have discussions before someone comes up with wishes like yours.

This forum is already well on its way to a silent death and locking of threads speeds this process up in my opinion.

[nightinr]

Completely agree threads getting locked have driven lots of people away from this forum imo.

[letsgotoofar]

Well, you'd think the number of threads about a specific subject getting locked would give people a clue not to discuss it, but here we are.

[nightinr]

Was Patti ever approached to be part of Bat tribute act (Caleb Johnson + Paul Crook, Randy and John) as part of the UK tour?

They seem to be playing some decent venues....Patti definitely would have helped ticket sales.....

[roomster]

Originally Posted by letsgotoofar

Well, you'd think the number of threads about a specific subject getting locked would give people a clue not to discuss it, but here we are.

What's the point of a discussion forum where you can't discuss?

This forum is unfortunately slowly dying and it seems a little strange to close all the threads that actually give's us a little bit to talk about and discuss.

[letsgotoofar]

It'd be one thing if these threads didn't devolve into the same type of discourse, but they do. You wanna blame somebody for it, blame the bad actors who are more willing to smear someone's words because they don't fit their narrow definition of "proof" than to concede that maybe their hero had feet of clay. Then again, I'm asking this of the same people who still insisted he could sing at the end with any wiggle room they could dream up (including "I'd listen to the CD if I wanted to hear note-perfect, I'm there for the showmanship!") rather than confront that inconvenient truth, so what should I expect...

[sandmage]

I've been thinking back and forth if, after reading this thread, I'm in the mood for cutting Patti some slack. Since the connection between her and TWG is real, I'm going with not in the mood. And since you guys @roomster and @nightinr want to keep discussing, although for some reason you aren't discussing, I'd like to throw this in:
Patti states in her tweets that she deeply insulted Meat's wife to his kids. This to me ends the discussion on whether Meat was right in fireing her. Even if you're so good at your job that you can get away with insulting your boss, if you insult his wife you're on the streets. That's guaranteed. If she now vetos Patti appearance on the tribute show, that's a perfectly good explanation for Patti not appearing on them and Patti being sour at this point in time.

Just my two cents on the actual thread topic.

Originally Posted by letsgotoofar

It'd be one thing if these threads didn't devolve into the same type of discourse, but they do. You wanna blame somebody for it, blame the bad actors who are more willing to smear someone's words because they don't fit their narrow definition of "proof" than to concede that maybe their hero had feet of clay. Then again, I'm asking this of the same people who still insisted he could sing at the end with any wiggle room they could dream up (including "I'd listen to the CD if I wanted to hear note-perfect, I'm there for the showmanship!") rather than confront that inconvenient truth, so what should I expect...

I'm now learning that the problem for the Meat Loaf forum becoming silent is that the Meat Loaf fans don't want to hear that their hero had feet of clay and couldn't sing anymore on the Meat Loaf forum. In unrelated news: Man claiming Jesus was Satan surprised and angry about being thrown out of church.

As a new member of this forum I get the picture. You guys are Braver than you are.

[letsgotoofar]

[ThatWriterGuy]

As others have mentioned this.

We actually discussed it a while back. The tribute band was never a consideration, for a number of reasons, and Patti was happier looking towards other, newer ventures (backed by some serious patrons at one time or other).

As always, it came down to what felt right at the time.

[ajf33]

Ok. As im getting quoted and ridiculed for suggesting this thread should have been locked, I'll attempt to explain.

At the time I made the suggestion to the mods, this thread was not in any way constructive, speculating on what Meat's widow had done to deserve Patti to tweet about her, (ok fair enough to a point)

A public argument between TWG & Adje, (both historically valued members here who've provided insights and quality material) that maybe would have been better off via PM than on public display.

TWG to address you directly, My only gripe with you, is, you keep on mentioning Snippets of other peoples "beefs" with Meat, then stopping dead & saying can't/won't say anymore, for full story ask them (Rory/Patti/Kasim to name a few) and see if they'll tell you, Knowing full well that 99% of us on here are unlikely to ever meet these people. Ok you're in a position to have met or worked with these people, and learnt a few stories, but If you can't tell them, then, it'd be better & avoid speculation & arguments if you didn't "tease". Those people can tell their own stories if and when they want to IMO.

You've kinda become Pattis unofficial spokesman, and, whilst I enjoy 99% of your posts and the kitchen sink blog, hinting at what she's referring to with her twitter tweets, isn't really on. If Patti has something to say, then let her say it when she feels ready to/is able to (in the event of legal issues stopping her revealing more)

That said I'm sorry to hear she's in a bad place dealing with a crisis and hope she can resolve that soon.

I'm sure most of us on here, know Meat wasn't an angel, wasn't without fault and probably has some skeletons in the closet when it comes to ex bandmembers, collaborators etc, but my Point of view is I don't offer an opinion on that side of him, as, it is none of my business. I enjoyed Meats music, performances and film/tv work, anything else isn't my concern (or really anybody's other than those involved)

This Forum is going to be a little slow at the moment, as, there's nothing new been announced to discuss, But that doesn't mean that Pattis tweets should be discussed in depth, as, at the end of the day they've been attacks on Meat (prior to his death) and now seemingly at his widow.

Ok other than the Musical & the official Tribute act, there isn't much else else current to discuss, but does that give us an excuse to wade in to matters that really are none of our concern (It's fairly obvious what Patti is tweeting about, and I really don't think it's something that needs discussing on here)

Just my Opinion. retires to put on hard hat.

[roomster]

Originally Posted by ajf33

Ok. As im getting quoted and ridiculed for suggesting this thread should have been locked, I'll attempt to explain.

Where have you been ridiculed?

[ThatWriterGuy]

Originally Posted by ajf33

TWG to address you directly, My only gripe with you, is, you keep on mentioning Snippets of other peoples "beefs" with Meat, then stopping dead & saying can't/won't say anymore, for full story ask them (Rory/Patti/Kasim to name a few) and see if they'll tell you, Knowing full well that 99% of us on here are unlikely to ever meet these people. Ok you're in a position to have met or worked with these people, and learnt a few stories, but If you can't tell them, then, it'd be better & avoid speculation & arguments if you didn't "tease". Those people can tell their own stories if and when they want to IMO.

You've kinda become Pattis unofficial spokesman, and, whilst I enjoy 99% of your posts and the kitchen sink blog, hinting at what she's referring to with her twitter tweets, isn't really on. If Patti has something to say, then let her say it when she feels ready to/is able to (in the event of legal issues stopping her revealing more)

Let's get real here.

The only time you'll ever see me pop up in threads is when something erroneous has been stated as fact.

99.9% of the time that's the case.

I'll step in, clarify to the best of my ability, and then continue to clarify when 'bad actors' (and that's being generous), repeatedly, knowingly, and willfully attempt to misinterpret my motivation. Occasionally, when certain people who use this forum Tweet at Patti and call her the worst things you can imagine, I'll attempt to enlighten you with regards to exactly how backwards you have this entire story.

And you do. You have it completely and totally backwards.

At the same time, I'm a remarkably laid back person and, as such, there are no arguments here. Stern? Sure. When needs be. But I'm easy. At the same time, I'm incredibly busy and have a limit on energy expenditure as, right now, this is my most valuable commodity. It isn't easy to come by, and it certainly isn't cheap.

If I post something like God of Low. There's a message in that. It's up to you to decide what that message is and if you're going to tap into reality or live within the fantasy. Either is fine - sincerely.

Don't like it?

Answer's simple: don't listen.

When I come here I tell you as much as I comfortably can, in an attempt to try and help you understand what you have gotten so abominably wrong. There are lines that I won't cross. You'll just have to deal with that.

You, yourself, could approach Rory tomorrow and ask him whatever you feel you need to ask - you have the means to do this. He isn't in hiding (there's an irony here, and maybe one day you'll hear that story, too). Will he reply? That all depends upon how you approach him, and how you phrase the question. Act like 99% of this thread and I guarantee you, you'll be met with the cold wall of silence.

As for what I will and won't say. There's only one person who gets a voice in that particular debate. The harder you push, the more likely I am to go in the opposite direction.

I hope this helped clarify a few of those points above. Anything else - you know where my PM box is. Want to reach me outside of this forum? Go to my website. You can contact me via the link on the page (note: these are vetted and passed on, so it may take me a few days to reply, sometimes longer).

For now, this is me punching out.

I'll collect my pay at the end of the week.

(Jeez, someone had better be paying me for this. I'll take it in scotch, that's fine).

[ajf33]

Originally Posted by roomster

Where have you been ridiculed?

Ok Maybe the wrong wording, but the idea that someone should suggest this thread was locked certainly has been.

[ajf33]

Ok maybe I have read some of your posts wrong, and misunderstood the points you've tried to put across/ For any misunderstanding I apologise.

I wouldn't know wherew to find Rory, and even if I did, I'm not sure i'd have the confidence to approach him, engage him in conversation, let alone broach the subject, so I'll take your word for it he's an approachable guy, who, might answer questions if phrased politely!

I did watch God of Low, and enjoyed it as a piece of work, I'm not looking beyond that for a hidden meaning. I know you've stated before public and private are different things, but, on a podcast after Meats death, Kasim couldn't have been any more respectful of Meat, but then I guess he'd hardly use that platform to slate him.

Patti, as I said before I hope finds peace and resolves the crisis she's dealing with.

I don't doubt what you say, and as stated before enjoy your posts in the main, as well as Kitchen sink.

I'm sure I'd enjoy the books you've mentioned are possibly in the pipeline, and can I ask what your website address is, as I'd be interested to look at it for news on you etc. I'll pass on your offer of p.m.'s / emails via site as, I doubt you could answer any questions any more fully than you do already, but I do get your point that your aim is to correct falsehood stated as truth.

Once more I apologise for any annoyance I may have caused you by misunderstanding your point.

Originally Posted by ThatWriterGuy

Let's get real here.

The only time you'll ever see me pop up in threads is when something erroneous has been stated as fact.

99.9% of the time that's the case.

I'll step in, clarify to the best of my ability, and then continue to clarify when 'bad actors' (and that's being generous), repeatedly, knowingly, and willfully attempt to misinterpret my motivation. Occasionally, when certain people who use this forum Tweet at Patti and call her the worst things you can imagine, I'll attempt to enlighten you with regards to exactly how backwards you have this entire story.

And you do. You have it completely and totally backwards.

At the same time, I'm a remarkably laid back person and, as such, there are no arguments here. Stern? Sure. When needs be. But I'm easy. At the same time, I'm incredibly busy and have a limit on energy expenditure as, right now, this is my most valuable commodity. It isn't easy to come by, and it certainly isn't cheap.

If I post something like God of Low. There's a message in that. It's up to you to decide what that message is and if you're going to tap into reality or live within the fantasy. Either is fine - sincerely.

Don't like it?

Answer's simple: don't listen.

When I come here I tell you as much as I comfortably can, in an attempt to try and help you understand what you have gotten so abominably wrong. There are lines that I won't cross. You'll just have to deal with that.

You, yourself, could approach Rory tomorrow and ask him whatever you feel you need to ask - you have the means to do this. He isn't in hiding (there's an irony here, and maybe one day you'll hear that story, too). Will he reply? That all depends upon how you approach him, and how you phrase the question. Act like 99% of this thread and I guarantee you, you'll be met with the cold wall of silence.

As for what I will and won't say. There's only one person who gets a voice in that particular debate. The harder you push, the more likely I am to go in the opposite direction.

I hope this helped clarify a few of those points above. Anything else - you know where my PM box is. Want to reach me outside of this forum? Go to my website. You can contact me via the link on the page (note: these are vetted and passed on, so it may take me a few days to reply, sometimes longer).

For now, this is me punching out.

I'll collect my pay at the end of the week.

(Jeez, someone had better be paying me for this. I'll take it in scotch, that's fine).

[Michael Marxen]

Some badmouthing of Meat on this “fan” website is frustrating.
Sure he was no saint, sure Patti will have her reasons, sure with the enourmous pressure he was facing some things went wrong. But being lucky enough to call myself his friend, I experienced multiple times that he tried to get things right for everyone.

Meat was a complicated character with no easy life, but a wonderfull and caring soul!

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Michael Marxen

Some badmouthing of Meat on this “fan” website is frustrating.

Sure he was no saint, sure Patti will have her reasons, sure with the enormous pressure he was facing some things went wrong. But being lucky enough to call myself his friend, I experienced multiple times that he tried to get things right for everyone.

Meat was a complicated character with no easy life, but a wonderful and caring soul!

Exactly so Michael. Pissing on his grave is in my view only demeaning to any who engage in it