Scotland

[melon]

Originally Posted by Gez

Good to see that everyone likes to have their wee digs.
You know, Scotland is one of the most beautiful countries you could ever visit and the people and the most welcoming so it would be nice to hear, maybe, something complimentary and positive...... unless you've not visited Scotland, then you can't complain about it.

Yes well an englishman did say it ha ha, I'd say they're not that far away and their weather, not that much different.

Doesn't always have to be sunny for something to be nice

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[meatloaf5]

(This is said in jest, please don't take offence. It`s from a Sassenach :) )

If Scotland does get Independence, will their new currency be called "The Numpty"?

FWIW this Englishman hopes the Scotland WILL remain part of the UK. To misquote an American saying, there is "Economies in scale" meaning that bulk buying power gets things cheaper. Is Scotland goes Independent, both it and the UK will suffer.

[Sebastian.]

Woooo Scotland stays!

[PanicLord]

Originally Posted by Sebastian.

Woooo Scotland stays!

I am so glad too! I think each country within the Uk needs much more devolved power. But i do believe we are better together!

[Monstro]

Originally Posted by PanicLord

I think each country within the Uk needs much more devolved power.

Yup, you're right, just as long as it isn't one country within the UK funding it.

[TheDoode]

The referendum was an important stepping stone for Scottish independence. It was a nice experiment to test the water, regardless of the result. Hopefully they'll use this time to develop their economic plan (which is happening), and not be backed into a corner over fear and propaganda from the opposition.

At the very least Westminster should be a little more sympathetic to the Scottish voice now, as they nearly lost a country and all.

[Evil One]

Originally Posted by TheDoode

The referendum was an important stepping stone for Scottish independence.

No. The referendum demonstrated that the majority of Scots don't want independence and that should be the end of the matter.

[TheDoode]

Originally Posted by Evil One

No. The referendum demonstrated that the majority of Scots don't want independence and that should be the end of the matter.

Nice try

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Evil One

No. The referendum demonstrated that the majority of Scots don't want independence and that should be the end of the matter.

I agree it should be the end of the matter in terms of splitting from the UK, certainly for many years anyway (by which time the oil and gas reserves, which formed the basis imo of much of the belief that Scotland as an independant country would be a significantly viable proposition was based, will be near to or have reached depletion. They voted by a small majority not to be an independent country, which to me makes most economic sense.

It would be true to say it heralds a stepping stone to more autonomy. They have been promised more independence in terms of autonomy/decision making, which also makes sense to me .. just as it seems fair that parliament moves to a position where MPs for Scotland do not vote on matters for England for which they have legislative control over in Scotland (and indeed this peinciple should apply to those for Wales and Northern Ireland). National autonomy should be a two way street I think

[melon]

Last time we had a referendum I wasn't old enough to vote, but I highly doubt we'd have another one for years

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[TheDoode]

Let's flip this. Can I ask why so many of you believe that Scotland SHOULD remain a part of the UK? A lot of opinions here have come across as snide and snarky, and especially derogatory towards Scots and Scotland. Ignoring the current referendum result (which is by no means the 'end of it'), I'd be interested to know why so many people are passionate to keep Scotland as a part of the UK. I don't have a point to prove or an opinion to change (unlike most here it'd seem), But I am genuinely interested.

[CarylB]

I speak as one who has made no snide, snarky or derogatory comments about Scotland or the Scots, and who has expressed an opinion not to change any other, nor to prove a point, but simply to voice my own in a thread on a topic that has a significant relevance to everyone in the UK I think.

My maternal grandmother was Irish, my father's grandfather a Scot, and I am named after a relative who was born in Wales. I am a citizen of the United Kingdom, I am British, I was born in England, so I am English. To me every part of the UK is the country which at its best I am proud to be part of, and to which I owe my allegiance. I love Scotland as country, respect its traditions and culture, embrace it as one of our diverse nations that make up the UK, have never felt nor been made to feel a foreigner when I visit, and many of my closest friends are Scots. That is why at an emotional level I very much wanted Scotland to stay as part of my country.

At a logical level I wanted them to remain because as the UK we exist mainly on two islands, as Britain we are principally one small island, and to start breaking that up would diminish all of us on the world stage I think. Diversity in culture to me is not sufficient reason to break a union; one can argue that there are significant differences between so many regions of the UK, just as there are in the USA, and the moves we have made towards embracing both a a central and a regional tier of government make sense to me, and should continue. I believe it makes sense as far as Scotland is concerned for all the reasons in my earlier post which were expressed by a Scot with an eloquence and clarity I could not better, was sent to me by one of my closest friends, a Scot, and thus quoted.

[TheDoode]

I enjoyed reading that response, Caryl; it was very measured and fair.

Living in Scotland myself, though not being a Scot admittedly, I also have friends (in Stirling, Edinburgh, Glasgow, the Highlands, etc.) across a range of ages (from students to fifties, mostly). One of them is an actor who's done pretty well for himself these last few years. I don't know if it'll surprise any of you, but none of them were amongst the no's. I think one thing worth bearing in mind for all non-Scots is that Scotland always was an independent land, before the English invaded. You might think that that's irrelevant these days, but I can assure you - from the belly of the beast - that it's no more irrelevant than slavery to a lot of Scots.

England has made a lot of mistakes over the past fifteen years. Westminster is running an already stretched economy into the ground. Is there any wonder a large percentage of Scottish residents welcomed independence?

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by TheDoode

I think one thing worth bearing in mind for all non-Scots is that Scotland always was an independent land, before the English invaded. You might think that that's irrelevant these days, but I can assure you - from the belly of the beast - that it's no more irrelevant than slavery to a lot of Scots.

I would never dismiss it as irrelevant, but perhaps the belly of the beast is not the best place from which to make a decision that has to endure for centuries

England has made a lot of mistakes over the past fifteen years. Westminster is running an already stretched economy into the ground. Is there any wonder a large percentage of Scottish residents welcomed independence?

Not if it would give them a sound long-term financial and economic base, and they too were free of the greed that has driven the politics of Westminster, and the many issues that have driven the UK economy into the ground, and also that of so many countries .. but I think that seems far from certain. RBS needed to be bailed out, and there is a frighteningly large current deficit on the health budget which was passed to their control. Negotiating with the EU is not easy for a country of 64m .. for a country of 6m I suspect it would be even more difficult.

[TheDoode]

Originally Posted by CarylB

I would never dismiss it as irrelevant, but perhaps the belly of the beast is not the best place from which to make a decision that has to endure for centuries

I would strongly disagree on this one, and say that it's the perfect place.

Originally Posted by CarylB

Not if it would give them a sound long-term financial and economic base, and they too were free of the greed that has driven the politics of Westminster, and the many issues that have driven the UK economy into the ground, and also that of so many countries .. but I think that seems far from certain. RBS needed to be bailed out, and there is a frighteningly large current deficit on the health budget which was passed to their control. Negotiating with the EU is not easy for a country of 64m .. for a country of 6m I suspect it would be even more difficult.

I do, however, agree with this. And I think it's this that turned a lot of Scots at the eleventh hour. The proposed economic plan needed a LOT more development time, and a SERIOUS amount of thought and work put into it (if it were to convince a nation that the country could sustain itself and, more importantly - grow, in the future in an independent way to Westminster and the rest of the UK).