What should 'Brave & Crazy' sound like?

[White of High]

Originally Posted by CarylB

Jim

No Jim

I don't mind as long as it's Meat

This poll would be totally pointless. There are no 2 groups of songwriters, Jim and not Jim. I think our poll is almost cover Meat's entire career. Jim is one of his songwriter... James Michael is another. HIAHB has various composers but its style is different as well. PJ and SD are other type of songwriters and Meat's style. There is rap and opera as well. Or there is Bat3 what had "sound-like-Steinman" songs with another producer. So what's the problem? I think 75% of the active fans vote for Jim and 25% vote for anything else. Or we can understand it as 15% want James Michael and 85% want other songwriter. But the fact is fact. 75% of voters want Jimmy and his style. Could we keep a poll with 50 voters as a representative statistics?

"I don't mind as long as it's Meat" - this one is foolish. I'm not a fan who likes everything what my idol does. There are a lot of Meat songs what I don't like and listen at all. There are a lot of songs on the last 2 albums what I cannot bear so I really mind what Meat does...

[melon]

Originally Posted by White of High

"I don't mind as long as it's Meat" - this one is foolish.

This, is foolish.

Who are you to tell others what they should, & should not like?

[White of High]

Originally Posted by melon

This, is foolish.

Who are you to tell others what they should, & should not like?

A fan who doesn't like everything what his idol does. I hope it's answer to your question.

[melon]

Doesn't make telling someone else that their view is foolish right.

No one said you had to like everything, so why should there be people that aren't allowed to like everything?

[White of High]

Originally Posted by melon

Doesn't make telling someone else that their view is foolish right.

Did I? I said that this point of poll would be foolish, not someone who votes that. Right?

[melon]

Originally Posted by White of High

Did I? I said that this point of poll would be foolish, not someone who votes that. Right?

Meh, You may have meant it the way you say here ^^^ but that's not the way it came across.

[JennaG]

Originally Posted by White of High

Did I? I said that this point of poll would be foolish, not someone who votes that. Right?

Well you didn't exactly make that clear in your original statement and I read it as saying that it's foolish to have the opinion that you don't mind who writes or produces the album as long as it's Meat. As someone who actually holds that opinion I would take offence to you calling my opinions foolish.

I think what I want to think and I dont need YOUR approval to do so.

[White of High]

Originally Posted by White of High

"I don't mind as long as it's Meat" - this one is foolish.

This point of a poll would be foolish. No anyone who votes that. There is no election like Obama-Romney-Whoever. People can think "whoever" because they don't care about them but it will never be an option. So it has no legitimacy...

[White of High]

As a personal view... I can't talk to someone about Meat's music who doesn't care what she/he gets from the album because the most important think that is Meat Loaf. It's not a rational view. You can say that you don't care who is the producer or songwriter of the album, then we are not gonna be partner in this conversation...

[MarkS]

Originally Posted by White of High

This point of a poll would be foolish. No anyone who votes that. There is no election like Obama-Romney-Whoever. People can think "whoever" because they don't care about them but it will never be an option. So it has no legitimacy...

That's is wrong.

A poll with 8 choices is a ware of time when all you want to know is whether people want Steinman involved or not.

Your poll completely lacks legitimacy and is pointless Steinman pandering

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[JennaG]

Originally Posted by White of High

As a personal view... I can't talk to someone about Meat's music who doesn't care what she/he gets from the album because the most important think that is Meat Loaf. It's not a rational view. You can say that you don't care who is the producer or songwriter of the album, then we are not gonna be partner in this conversation...

Who the hell do you think you are to say my opinion is not rational?

What's irrational is refusing to have a discussion with someone just because their opinion does not agree with yours. Why did you bother asking the question if you're not willing to accept other people's right to have an opinion.

[White of High]

Then here is a dictionary to the poll!

I want Steinman sound, power ballads and heavy choir (I want Steinman songs or sound)
Go back to the 80ies, Sarah Durkee and Paul Jacobs I want (I want Sd and PJ songs and 80ies sound)
I like his lighter songs, more HIAHB-style albums (I want his new style)
More songs by James Michael like CHSIB (I want James Michael and CHSIB sound)
I think rap is perfect on a Meat album (I want his new style with more rap)
Hate me but I find Bat3 great, so back to Desmond Child (I want Steinman-like songs and I want Desmond make an album)
I love acoustic and Meat has never done one (I want acoustic sound)
Let's sing opera! (I think an opera album would be great)

2 out of 8 has any connection to Jimmy. 2 out of 8 has any connection to his new style. 2 out of 8 has new wave (opera, acoustic). 2 out of 8 has 2 other songwriters and 2 different styles. If you think it's still about Jimmy than you have persecution mania I guess...

[White of High]

Originally Posted by JennaG

Who the hell do you think you are to say my opinion is not rational?

I don't know your opinion because you are talking about me and not Meat Loaf.

Originally Posted by White of High

As a personal view... I can't talk to someone about Meat's music who doesn't care what she/he gets from the album because the most important think that is Meat Loaf.

I'm a little bit disapointed that I have to explain SOMEONE is not JennaG in my sentence. I help you... AS A PERSONAL VIEW... I can't talk to SOMEONE about Meat's music who doesn't care what she/he gets from the album. If you are one of them then we have don't need to talk about Meat's music and new album because I don't keep it a rational opinion. Just to use your words: can I keep a view like that not rational?

[loaferman61]

Jim ain't going to write or produce an album - not going to happen. Maybe recycle an old song either as a cover or rehash into something "new" - big maybe. I seriously doubt you will see Desmond Child again. Parts of the album seem to already be in motion and I foresee it going much the same as HIAH maybe with a Jim retread. If the Steinman sound is not a realistic option, I'd like the HCTB "big" production with songs more like HIAH and something again by James Michael. Thought HCTB had a great sound but weaker songs than HIAH. Plus it seems the HIAH method is much cheaper.

[White of High]

I agree with you loaferman61. Brave and Crazy won't be a Steinman album. I would be happier with a Desmond Child-Steinman album than a HCTB style, just don't sell it as Bat4 or Renegade Angel or anything by Steinman. Bat3 was a great album with bad production (because they wanted to do a Bat without Jim) but the material was great...

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by White of High

"I don't mind as long as it's Meat" - this one is foolish.

Indeed? Well you are damn rude.

I'm not a fan who likes everything what my idol does.

First I do not set Meat on a pedestal, nor see him as an idol. It's patently obvious you do not do this either, so saying that you don't like everything that your idol does is meaningless, unless you are referring to me, in which case you are wrong. I see him as a gifted and great performer, and a good human being I like a lot, and consider a friend.

I am entitled to express my view based on my experience ie that in over 35 years Meat has not disappointed me, and that FOR ME his latest two albums are great, that I love his musical direction and Paul's production. I speak for me, and I love what he is now doing. Did I love BOOH? Yes. Were Steinman's songs brilliant? Yes. He wrote some of the best songs and saw in Meat the perfect voice and passion to engage the world with them. Does that mean I cannot enjoy Meat singing other songs written by other gifted composers? No. Do I trust Meat to be able to find songs I love to hear him sing which have been written by other composers? Yes.

My point was I would not say "No Steinman", nor would I say "Only Steinman". I am saying I trust Meat to find songs which I will love. If he has a Steinman penned song that fits with the album as a whole, then great. But the most important thing from my view is that he delivers an album where the songs fit his vision for the whole, and that each has a fit with the one preceding it and coming after. I love Meat's style of delivering a cohesive whole rather than a collection of songs

There are a lot of Meat songs what I don't like and listen at all. There are a lot of songs on the last 2 albums what I cannot bear so I really mind what Meat does...

Well you have made that very obvious on this forum time and again. However, I do not have to feel the same way .. thank God. I suppose I am the lucky one, as there is nothing on Meat's albums I cannot bear, and my continued enjoyment of his work is not dependent on one composer or one style.

However, to assert that the musical taste and enjoyment of anyone who does not share yours is foolish is as impertinent as it is ignorant. I do not treat Meat as a God. However, whilst I respect Steinman for all he has given the world musically (something Meat demands on the board which bears his name btw), I do not see him as a God either. And it is Meat's voice, Meat's passion, Meat's performance that I look forward to .. so

I do not mind who writes the songs as long as Meat delivers them.

(And I have already responded elsewhere to a question on the lines of even if they're rubbish songs .. Meat does not choose songs that he cannot deliver and make special for me)

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by White of High

As a personal view... I can't talk to someone about Meat's music who doesn't care what she/he gets from the album because the most important think that is Meat Loaf. It's not a rational view. You can say that you don't care who is the producer or songwriter of the album, then we are not gonna be partner in this conversation...

That may be your personal view. In which case better not to ask the question if you cant accept others see the world differently.

To describe the view of anyone who thinks the most important aspect will be that it is Meat is NOT irrational. It is another's view, and as valid as anyone else's.

No-one has rudely suggested your view is irrational .. nor refused to converse with you. Your assertions and statements might be seen as bigoted and blinkered.

[JennaG]

Originally Posted by White of High

I'm a little bit disapointed that I have to explain SOMEONE is not JennaG in my sentence. I help you... AS A PERSONAL VIEW... I can't talk to SOMEONE about Meat's music who doesn't care what she/he gets from the album. If you are one of them then we have don't need to talk about Meat's music and new album because I don't keep it a rational opinion. Just to use your words: can I keep a view like that not rational?

That's not my words since mine wouldn't make that little sense.

I will quote your message since you clearly have forgotten what YOU have said.

Originally Posted by White of High

I can't talk to someone about Meat's music who doesn't care what she/he gets from the album because the most important think that is Meat Loaf. It's not a rational view.

YOU said that it is not a rational view to not care about what comes from the album because the most important thing is Meat Loaf. As someone who holds the opinion along those lines, I felt like I had every right to reply.

You have no right to say ANYONE'S opinion is irrational just because it is not what you wanted to hear.

FYI: I have every faith in Meat Loaf to produce a great album and it is irrelevant to me who else is involved. I actually voted in your stupid poll that I was hoping that the new album would sound like the two more recent albums.

[White of High]

Originally Posted by CarylB

I do not mind who writes the songs as long as Meat delivers them.

"I don't mind as long as it's Meat" and "I do not mind who writes the songs as long as Meat delivers them" are not the same. The same story with the word "foolish". I would keep this point of poll foolish, not someone who votes that. Explanation up there.

You can like everything what you want. But I keep my opinion: we don't have to be partner in a conversation about Meat's new album if you dan't care about who writes the songs, who produces or who plays on it. Because the view "I don't care just be under the name of Meat" I don't keep rational.

But... if you don't care about anything why do you vote???

[White of High]

Originally Posted by CarylB

That may be your personal view. In which case better not to ask the question if you cant accept others see the world differently.

You are on the wrong side of the horse, Caryl. I think my poll covered Meat's entire career (Steinman, 80ies, CHSIB, new style, futrure style). More than 50 people voted more than any other polls in the last years. You can still keep it 'my personal view' but it's not. I don't unerstand why people who like that much Meat's new style keep this poll that offensive.

I accept anybody's opinion but personally I don't keep a view like I don't care about anything just be Meat Loaf rational. You are who can't accept it...

[The Flying Mouse]

Enough!

Personal opinion is not fact, and nobody's opinions are "foolish".

Either show some respect for each others opinions or this thread can go bye bye.

[White of High]

Originally Posted by JennaG

You have no right to say ANYONE'S opinion is irrational just because it is not what you wanted to hear.

You're right! And I don't do that... but personally I can't argue or talk to anybody about the new album who doesn't care about its songs, style, producers, songwriters, etc. because I don't find it a rational stance.

[White of High]

FlyingMouse!

Please delete all of the quotes from the 'new poll idea' because everything after that it's totally pointless...

And I didn't say that anyone's opinion is foolish.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by White of High

"I don't mind as long as it's Meat" and "I do not mind who writes the songs as long as Meat delivers them" are not the same. The same story with the word "foolish". I would keep this point of poll foolish, not someone who votes that. Explanation up there.

And again, you conveniently leave out my explanation of that option (although are happy to finally post yours) I explained that option was

If Steinman had some songs that fitted with Meat's vision for the album I'd be OK with that. If not, fine.

You can like everything what you want. But I keep my opinion: we don't have to be partner in a conversation about Meat's new album if you dan't care about who writes the songs, who produces or who plays on it. Because the view "I don't care just be under the name of Meat" I don't keep rational.

But... if you don't care about anything why do you vote???

Even given English is your second language, I find that bizarre. This thread is headed "What should Brave and Crazy" sound like? I do care about that. I have said I like Meat's current style, his new direction musically, and that this is the style I hope to see, have said I hope Paul will produce, have said I love the current band line-up and hope to find heavy guitar and Justin's brilliant piano .. How the hell is that not having an interest? Just because it's not in accord with your wishes?

However saying what I'd like does not preclude me from TRUSTING his musical creativity and judgement. Nowhere have I said I "don't care about anything". I'd rather his current style than return to BOOH, but if he intends to take me further on his journey musically, that's great.

Please don't delete my posts Neil as I do not consider them pointless.

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by White of High

Please delete all of the quotes from the 'new poll idea' because everything after that it's totally pointless...

I'll settle for everyone going back on topic.

If someone wants to create a simplified version (Jim or no Jim) go ahead, but on this thread treat the question as asked in the poll.