Debate

[misterfive]

This is ridiculous lets face facts it doesn't change whether you vote for the Mormon or the Black guy, do you really think the way they would've run the country differ? Honestly if Obama was the president instead of Bush Iraq would still have been invaded. It doesn't change just cause you got a different face in office.

Just let anyone have their preference its all just another butcher in the land of the pigs anyhow so why get so into this when we have more important things to discuss... like Brave and Crazy!

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Wario

hate to say it but meat has a Huge fanbase that exceeds this site. losing a few longtime fans on here wont effect anything. Im very sad to see them leave, but the big picture is meats fanbase is huge and their loss isnt that unfortunate to a technical view.

This still is no reason to insult everyone here. I agree Meat's "fanbase" is larger than what is displayed here. However when it comes to his UK travelling fanbase I'm not so sure. He can play any arena and people in that city will be there I agree but the the people in the first 2-3 rows are often the same ones. Also whenever I go to Meet and Greets it's always the same ones there in the UK and many of who are regular posters here or have at least visited here. It's a bit hypocritical to suggest those shouldn't come to M&Gs anymore as they have collectively given Meat a nice little cash bonus at each show just to have the honour of meeting him.

And as for those who say this was an experiment I don't buy that at all. I just read that as a regret without apologising properly.

[LuuuuvMeat]

Originally Posted by robgomm

Rest assured Meat doesn't believe 97% hate him. It was a ploy to find out who the truly negative people are on the site. he has already explained but take note of the people that keep sticking to that 97% quote, they are either stupid in that they don't believe Meats explanation, or they are the people Meat has been talking about and are grabbing the chance to bash him as he knew they would. Fact is Meat has explained he didn't really mean 97%, to keep quoting that is just plain stupid and has shown Meat the people he was looking for. In short, his plan has worked very well.

LOL!

[Gez]

Originally Posted by evil nickname

I find it uncanny how many people claim to know just what Meat *really* thinks or believes, and how that always proves the point they're making.

Rubbish. No-one sucking up to Meat but we are entitled to OUR opinion, democracy and a beer (potential song there)

[JaysScout]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

This still is no reason to insult everyone here. I agree Meat's "fanbase" is larger than what is displayed here. However when it comes to his UK travelling fanbase I'm not so sure. He can play any arena and people in that city will be there I agree but the the people in the first 2-3 rows are often the same ones. Also whenever I go to Meet and Greets it's always the same ones there in the UK and many of who are regular posters here or have at least visited here. It's a bit hypocritical to suggest those shouldn't come to M&Gs anymore as they have collectively given Meat a nice little cash bonus at each show just to have the honour of meeting him.

And as for those who say this was an experiment I don't buy that at all. I just read that as a regret without apologising properly.

I hardly think that Meat needs the "nice little cash bonus", nor does he do the M&Gs for that reason.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

I agree Meat's "fanbase" is larger than what is displayed here. However when it comes to his UK travelling fanbase I'm not so sure. He can play any arena and people in that city will be there I agree but the the people in the first 2-3 rows are often the same ones.

Much larger. And some of those in the first 2-3 rows of shows you have attended may be the same .. and some of us will still be there. Any others will imo be gratefully taken up by some of the other 10,000.

Also whenever I go to Meet and Greets it's always the same ones there in the UK and many of who are regular posters here or have at least visited here.

Really? That's not my experience. Yes, there will be some faces who attend, but many (in fact I'd say more) quite unfamiliar ones, and not regular posters here.

.... as they have collectively given Meat a nice little cash bonus at each show just to have the honour of meeting him.

A rather large (and imo a rather snarky) assumption, unless you are privy to the figures and budgets, which to be honest I doubt. I don't think you have any better idea than any of us as to how much the promoter takes, how much VIP Nation (or other organising body) takes, how much may be used as part of the over all budget, and how much, if anything, Meat receives specifically from the packages.

[Evil One]

Originally Posted by nikox1

Or just let him support who he wants? How he wants? next year sounds like it's gonna be great in the land of the loaf!! Lots of treats for us fans. Who cares what religion, race, or president wannabe people choose to back? I'm sure meat knows how the media works, I'm sure he knows the pitfalls all too well by now. And I'm sure he knows when he said or has done the wrong thing. I have family and friends in America, I respect the country and it's people. But to me the whole president thingy is one big circus!! A drama fueled sideshow!!! including my country, all government officials etc etc,, are liars and bullshitters!!! So to see the stupid reaction meat received on Facebook was the funniest thing I've ever seen. I like blue, you like green, I have a big nose and you have a big ass etc etc,,, life goes on people

I thought you left and made a big song and dance about never coming back.

[Sarge]

Wario, I know you're a big fan and I think that you are sincere. I understand why you'd defend and justify anything Meat Loaf does or says, even if it's plain wrong. However, I disagree with you.

You think Meat Loaf "loves" us? He has a weird way of showing that "love". He always comes back to this site? Yeah, to tell us what horrible people we are. The loss of some of the most devoted fans does not matter? People being hurt, disappointed and wrongfully insulted is just a "technical" issue? To me, it does matter if people who have been part of this community for many years leave. It's mostly due to some of the members of this forum why I'm still here and why I reconsidered my decision to ditch this place and the whole Meat Loaf thing twice.

I think that people and what they have contributed over the years are more important than sheer numbers. The way in which those people were treated was disgraceful, especially in one particular post by Meat Loaf that had to be deleted because it violated forum rules. The person it was targeted at hadn't even participated in any of the discussions Meat Loaf felt offended by. Given his choice of words, he seems to take pleasure in putting people off and seeing them leave. This is how much he "loves" us and how much "respect" he has for this fan club.

You can try to whitewash Meat Loaf's behavior as much as you like, you won't change my opinion. The only person who could change it is Meat Loaf himself but he hasn't taken the chance to do so.

[LucyK!]

Originally Posted by CarylB

Really? That's not my experience. Yes, there will be some faces who attend, but many (in fact I'd say more) quite unfamiliar ones, and not regular posters here.

Same here. I'm always guilty of turning up to M&Gs and expecting to know everyone (or at least know of them) and I'm always pleasantly surprised when there's complete strangers there - reminds me that actually the fanbase is much bigger than the MLUKFC in my head! And that goes for M&Gs from here, .net and paid ones of recent years.

[roomster]

Originally Posted by Evil One

I thought you left and made a big song and dance about never coming back.

Leaving and coming back seems to be a popular activity...

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by Paul Richardson

... and hypocritical, no one here has come close to the rudeness, disrespect and hatefulness ML has displayed to the '97%'. Anyone else posting like this would have been deleted, infracted and banned.

And Meat has took a good bit of a bashing in return.
That's why I kept the edit to a minimum.

I remember hearing (true story) about the brother of a king who shot a monk for a laugh. The king pardoned his brother, but told him that he would likewise pardon anyone who decided to shoot his brother.

As far as i'm concerned, Meat shot his monk yesterday.
And if that doesn't scream "put me on a T shirt", I don't know what does .

Every time Meat comes to us and speaks to us like that there's an outpouring of sympathy for him. It's not doing the trick is it?
I'll be sympathetic for him, as well as having sympathy myself and the rest of the fans who are treated so harshly.
One thing I can't feel is guilty, because I believe he is wrong in his general opinion of us.
I think Meat needs to know that his action, as well as being VERY hurtful, also piss off long time fans who are an asset to our community.

His post went unedited, and so did the replies.
I called an end to it after a while (you'll note my post was directed to everyone) but I couldn't very well edit everyones replies when they had been insulted so much.

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Indeed. I really thought yesterday it might be best if his account was banned, maybe temporarily.

IMPO, that's not realistic.

Originally Posted by AndrewG

I also came to the site yesterday to hopefully start an interesting debate about the tour and album yet this was marred by Meat's reaction to the voice thread which then transgressed into the album thread which then got split into this "debate" thread by a moderator.

The thread about the new album couldn't have been left as it was, could it?

Originally Posted by robgomm

Rest assured Meat doesn't believe 97% hate him. It was a ploy to find out who the truly negative people are on the site.

If it was, I don't know why he felt it neccersary.

Originally Posted by robgomm

In short, his plan has worked very well.

I beg to differ.
NOTHING positive has come from this (apart from maybe an invite to a dress rehearsal, which would be pretty cool, but we'll see if that happens )
As far as I can see it only achieved a lot of insult, upset, grief, and anger. Not to mention some long term fans getting so pissed off that our community had been so badly treated they no longer wish to be a part of our community. Including two of our forum staff.
Not to mention the fact I spent over 5 hours myself modding pretty much one thread. I can't even remember how many times I locked the thread, cleaned it, opened it, and then deleted more posts.
Believe me, it was not my idea of fun on a peaceful Sunday afternoon.

I can't say anything worked pretty well, least of all any kind of plan.

[Monstro]

Originally Posted by Wario

hate to say it but meat has a Huge fanbase that exceeds this site. losing a few longtime fans on here wont effect anything.

Yes it will and it has, a couple of ticket/album sales lost may be insignificant as far as Meat's concerned but as far as I'm concerned a slap in the face from a man I've followed and admired for over 30yrs is significant and to then call it an experiment just adds insult to injury, I'd have been as impressed with an outright apology as I was at first insulted by his words.

Originally Posted by Wario

Meat loves us no matter what.

Really? He's got a mightily weird way of showing it, never had anyone treat me like a lab rat to find out how I feel, personally I'd rather he just asked me instead of coming here and taking all the crap his facebook page got out on us.

Originally Posted by robgomm

Rest assured Meat doesn't believe 97% hate him. It was a ploy to find out who the truly negative people are on the site. he has already explained but take note of the people that keep sticking to that 97% quote, they are either stupid in that they don't believe Meats explanation, or they are the people Meat has been talking about and are grabbing the chance to bash him as he knew they would. Fact is Meat has explained he didn't really mean 97%, to keep quoting that is just plain stupid and has shown Meat the people he was looking for. In short, his plan has worked very well.

I have never "bashed" Meat but in fact have been a staunch supporter for many years, you can include me in whatever percentage or group you want but there's nothing you can say that can justify his behavior to loyal long term supporters of the man and his music. I don't believe his explanation that it was an experiment and neither am I stupid, nor am I appeased by some story about free tickets to a dress rehearsal, Meat should apologise to this fanbase not expect blind loyalty.

I really don't expect anyone to understand this bit but for the first time in 17yrs there's no picture of Meat in my office at work, took them down today.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by CarylB

A rather large (and imo a rather snarky) assumption, unless you are privy to the figures and budgets, which to be honest I doubt. I don't think you have any better idea than any of us as to how much the promoter takes, how much VIP Nation (or other organising body) takes, how much may be used as part of the over all budget, and how much, if anything, Meat receives specifically from the packages.

Not any more snarky than telling people to not come to M&Gs any more. Rest assured I won't and I hope you have fun Caryl.

[evil nickname]

Originally Posted by Gez

Rubbish. No-one sucking up to Meat but we are entitled to OUR opinion, democracy and a beer (potential song there)

Fair enough. We're not going to agree on that, then, but that's allright with me.

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by Monstro

I'd have been as impressed with an outright apology as I was at first insulted by his words.

I think many would

Originally Posted by Monstro

I really don't expect anyone to understand this bit but for the first time in 17yrs there's no picture of Meat in my office at work, took them down today.

I'm very sorry to hear that
For such a long time supporter to do something like that isn't pretty much on a whim.
I'm sorry that you are angry and hurt enough to take his picture down. I hope they go back up sometime soon.

Meat has got two sides. The one that will think "you take my picture down? WELL F*CK YOU " and the one that will realize he's f*cked up and hurt people who love and respect him very much. It's heads or tails which mood he'll be in next time, but I hope it's the latter.

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by MarkS

Hey person, can only be shipped on so much before they finally start fighting back, and I think that is what has happened in this situation

People treat him like crap, and then when he finally goes off they then decide to turn around and Act all innocent. And accuse others of the playing silly games and starting fights.

This situation has likely been a long time coming

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I disagree.
The voice thread was far more respectful than I expected. The politics, things were a little heated there at times, but nothing, NOTHING compaired anywhere near to what he was getting on Facebook.
I've already said once, if he had that type of personal insult and abuse here, it would have been deleted. We'd do the same for any member.
Fact!
The attack on the members here was completley unprovoked. You only have to see the hurt and angry reaction from some very long time fans to realise that.

It's not right for Meat to take the abuse he's had on facebook out on us.
Even Meat knows that with his sudden change of tone.

[nikox1]

Everybody can have a view on this and by all means vent an opinion. The only thing I find interesting about all this is it's taken this long? this day was always gonna happen IMO,,

[lorenzoduke]

I never bothered reading the voice thread, simply because I generally disagree with those kind of comments here and to me it's repetitive and pointless. Meat's always had off-days here and there and struggled at times, I remember seeing him once around 1996/7 when he clearly was running a fever and getting over a cold/flu. Everyone could see he was struggling but he went for it, gave it all, and absolutely everyone that I could see left amazed and satisfied by his commitment. I was at the Amsterdam show on the Bat 3 tour (and the one on the Casa De Carne tour) which Meat has said were his two worst gigs and I loved them both, I really didn't see or hear a problem.

At times it does get tiresome hearing people complain about one 3 minute clip here or there so I can only imagine how aggravating and upsetting it is for Meat. Likewise I don't click on threads dissing the recent albums, which I love, because they're always full of the same sort of posts from people who seem to think Meat shouldn't sing anything unless Steinman wrote it.

Having said all that, I thought the Romney thread here (the one that was locked) was for the most part respectful and one of the most interesting we've had in a while. Meat, no one was trying to dictate your beliefs to you and I don't recall anyone calling you names, telling you to go f yourself etc.

You chose to make a public stand and people had questions and speculations based on it, which you of course were free to answer or ignore as you see fit.. It's only natural that when you do something for the first time in your career, people are going to be blindsided by it. If you endorse someone people are going to wonder what points you're endorsing and what you oppose. It's human nature and has nothing whatsoever to do with being a fan or not being a fan. If we didn't care about you we wouldn't care enough to be asking 'Why does he think this?' and 'What does he mean by that'. I heard a lot of mean spirited crap and childish insults were said about you over the Romney thing on Facebook, but that's there and this is here.

I know you're an intelligent man with strong beliefs and convictions. Maybe I'm one of those dumb people that you see, but I don't understand why telling people to go to hell and go ~~~~ themselves has to go along with expressing that.

[mdoyle604]

Meat as a 19 year old fan I just want to start off with that I am a huge fan of your work and you are a true inspiration, to myself and a bunch of my friends back home. It kills me to see "your fans" and yourself get so heated up over you own political views. Your views have not changed the way I feel about your work or you as a person, and I thank you for standing up for yourself and your beliefs. Here are few stories on how you impacted me.

In 2011, you played in Big Flats NY. Me and my friends months in advance waited until midnight to but our tickets to grantee us first row. We got to the concert 5 hours early, in hope to meet you and the band. We saw your buses pull in and right away we meet Patti who signed our album. Then we asked security if you were in yet and they kept telling us you or the band had not arrived yet (we showed them Patti signature, and they still tried to fool us.) We then saw the whole band eating dinner and security let me and my friend go up to the door where we got to meet the whole band and get signatures before the show. The show kicked off, and me and my friends jaw hit the ground YOU BLEW US AWAY. (The night before we say Ted Nugent, and I will tell you this your show still stands as the best show I have ever seen, (Ted Nugent, Lindsey Buckingham,Creedence Clearwater REO Speedwagon and Johnny Winter). To being seeing you, front row just blew my mind. As you walked off stage me and my friend quickly ran over with our albums, and as you walked by us you pointed to me and my friend and security let us in. We did not get to meet you but you signed our albums which was the cherry on top of the best night of my life.

I have seen you three more time on the Mad Mad World Tour (Boston, Hershey and Mohegan Sun) In Boston I brought my cousin who only listen to rap and he turned to me at the end of your show and said "That was THE BEST CONCERT EVER!!!) We then jumped a 10ft barb-wired fence to get backstage just to have the chance to meet you. We then got caught by security who gave us a tour around and see the stage. The next day my cousin went out and bought Hang Cool Teddy bear and Hell In a Handbasket and loves them. At Hershey Me and my 4 best friends and my dad got to stand right up to the stage. As you gave it your all for 3 hours. You turned my dad into a fan after your performance.

Meat you are an inspiration and a perfectionist. Every show you walk on that stage and you give one of the best rock performances still out there. I love Hang Cool Teddy Bear, Hell in a Handbasket and can not wait for the new album. Don't stoop down to he negative comments, you are better then that. I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE WHAT YOU WILL BRING IN THE NEAR FUTURE KEEP ROCKING!!!!!!! I HOPE YOU READ THIS!!!!!!!

[BoyBehindBars]

Originally Posted by Fire Ball

Can't you see the people who say they love me, are hurting me !! I came to read some good things and all I got was the same as those Libs wrote me, you suck. I came to visit my friends , found out different.
M

Meat,
we critizise you if we don't like something, and we do if we love something. Critic is not necessarily negative. And why do we do that? Not because we want to hurt you. We do it because we care!
If you can't stand the fact someone doesn't like your latest record or disagree with your political views get yourself a punching ball but please don't use your fans as whipping boy.

To your earlier comment: I do not burn your records. Why should I? I still love most of them and I am proud of having discovered such an entertaining and gifted artist. I don't give a damn about your political views, your favourite dish (unless we had dinner together!), if you prefer Callaway over Hogan or Nike...But if you insult your fans, we react.

Don't be bitter, you have many loyal fans. We supported you, but we did not make you. We neither take you nor your music for granted, we never did. Be aware of it.

Please explain me why do I "suck"?

Keep on rocking, touring, acting. But please cut back your fan bashing.
Your fan, Tim.

[lorenzoduke]

Originally Posted by BoyBehindBars

Please explain me why do I "suck"?

Keep on rocking, touring, acting. But please cut back your fan bashing.
Your fan, Tim.

I read it as Meat saying that the 'Libs' said 'you suck' to him.

[R.]

Originally Posted by BoyBehindBars

Please explain me why do I "suck"?

You don't, this isn't directed at you. Lies den Satz nochmal ...

[misterfive]

So, we are Meat Loaf fans what do we care? We are the wasted youth, the kids with the bad attitude, we are going nowhere fast so deal with it, the fact we even bother dicussing it ruins the meaning of us being Meat Loaf fans.

[The Flying Mouse]

Politcal in fighting deleted.

Again

[MarkS]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

Politcal in fighting deleted.

Again

Honest question, how can we have a thread titled debates, but when two people are having a reasonably friendly debate on the political issue you run and delete it. We were not calling each other names, or using bad language towards one another, we were simply having a heated discussion on the issue? Doesn't really make much sense to me

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