Steinman influenced by...Elton John?

[Julie in the rv mirror]

So, I just got a new iPod with more memory than my old one, and I've been busy loading it up. While doing this, I happened to take a look through the CD booklet from Elton John's Goodbye Yellow Brick Road album- I have some kind of reissue. Anyway, in the liner notes, I came across this:

...the first track, "Funeral for a Friend", was a striking instrumental, with engineer David Hentschel playing synthesiser and Davey Johnstone's guitar also prominent. There seem to be Wagnerian influences on this track similar to those which affected Jim Steinman when he was writing "Bat Out of Hell" a year or two later, and it is interesting to note that Davey Johnstone later played in Meat Loaf's backing band...

...and "Your Sister Can't Twist (But She Can Rock and Roll)" was possibly yet another song which influenced Jim Steinman, this time when he wrote "Paradise by the Dashboard Light", another track on Meat Loaf's "Bat Out of Hell" album.

I thought this was interesting, as I had noticed the similarity between "Paradise" and "Your Sister Can't Twist" a while ago myself.

What do you guys think?

Funeral for a Friend/ Love Lies Bleeding
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p_xAToFzck

Your Sister Can't Twist (But She Can Rock and Roll)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f31TCmbQRvo

[samurai7]

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

So, I just got a new iPod with more memory than my old one, and I've been busy loading it up. While doing this, I happened to take a look through the CD booklet from Elton John's Goodbye Yellow Brick Road album- I have some kind of reissue. Anyway, in the liner notes, I came across this:

...the first track, "Funeral for a Friend", was a striking instrumental, with engineer David Hentschel playing synthesiser and Davey Johnstone's guitar also prominent. There seem to be Wagnerian influences on this track similar to those which affected Jim Steinman when he was writing "Bat Out of Hell" a year or two later, and it is interesting to note that Davey Johnstone later played in Meat Loaf's backing band...

...and "Your Sister Can't Twist (But She Can Rock and Roll)" was possibly yet another song which influenced Jim Steinman, this time when he wrote "Paradise by the Dashboard Light", another track on Meat Loaf's "Bat Out of Hell" album.

I thought this was interesting, as I had noticed the similarity between "Paradise" and "Your Sister Can't Twist" a while ago myself.

What do you guys think?

Funeral for a Friend/ Love Lies Bleeding
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p_xAToFzck

Your Sister Can't Twist (But She Can Rock and Roll)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f31TCmbQRvo

I have the same reissue. I know Jimmy has been quoted as being a fan of Elton's band - he wanted to do something with them, and as it turned out he worked with Davey on both Bad For Good, and Dead Ringer (before the tracks were handed over to Meat and Stephan Galfas to add vocals to)

I can see what they're saying regarding the possible influence on Steinman. I think Jimmy was/is very influenced by Brit acts such as The Who and Elton, almost as much as US acts like Springsteen and The Doors. OK, maybe not as much as Springsteen... lol

[The Flying Mouse]

Thankfully (for the reason of a 1st time comparison) i've never heard these two songs before.

So, compairing to other music from a first listen...............

Funeral For A Friend.
Starts off sounding very much like a traditional Jewish song (don't ask me which one, they're hardly my specialist area).
Moves upward into the grandeaur of Wagner approx 0.45, but the synthersizer sound is too strong to be pleasant.
1:08 now it sounds like it's from the musical Tommy.
1:38 Jesus Christ Superstar (Gethesmane)
2:24 Rocky Horror (and crawling, on the planets face....)
3:16 I expected to hear FLASH! AH AHHHHHHHH!

Not overly Wagnerian, and Jim himself was inspired by Wagner so that would be a simpler explaination to the Wagnerian sound of Jims music, rather than put it down to the diluted synthersizer sound in Funeral For A Friend.



I clicked on Your Sister Can't Dance, and the first thing it made me think of was Rocky Horror (especially "I'm a wild and an untamed thing).
I also hear a bit of Johnny B Goode, and Little Richards Gonna Have Some Fun Tonight.

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

Thankfully (for the reason of a 1st time comparison) i've never heard these two songs before.

Really? Dude, do yourself a favor and give the whole album a listen- it's simply a classic!

I thought everybody had this album. It's like Wayne said in "Wayne's World" re. "Frampton Comes Alive": "If you lived in the suburbs, you were issued it. It came in the mail with samples of Tide".

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

Not overly Wagnerian, and Jim himself was inspired by Wagner so that would be a simpler explaination to the Wagnerian sound of Jims music, rather than put it down to the diluted synthersizer sound in Funeral For A Friend.

Agreed; while I can't say I have enough familiarity with Wagner's work to notice any influence on Elton, I have heard of Steinman's inspiration by him.

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

I clicked on Your Sister Can't Dance, and the first thing it made me think of was Rocky Horror (especially "I'm a wild and an untamed thing).
I also hear a bit of Johnny B Goode, and Little Richards Gonna Have Some Fun Tonight.

Interesting; "Rocky Horror" opened in London the same year as "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road" was released- 1973.

Another thing I noticed- The lyrics to "Saturday Night's Alright for Fighting" kind of make me think of "All Revved Up"; not saying one inspired the other, just that the songs have a similar "vibe" to them.

@samurai7:
Elton's band is awesome, and both Davey Johnstone and Nigel Olsson are in his touring band today.

[Evil Ernie]

I can definitely see how Elton John could have been an influence on Jim. Possibly the other way around too.

Evidence of EJ influence is most visible on early demos:

YouTube Video

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

I can definitely see how Elton John could have been an influence on Jim. Possibly the other way around too.

Evidence of EJ influence is most visible on early demos

Hmmm, interesting- I see what you mean.

Do you have an example of where you hear a reverse influence on Elton?

[Evil Ernie]

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

Hmmm, interesting- I see what you mean.

Do you have an example of where you hear a reverse influence on Elton?

'Written In The Stars' is a possibility:

YouTube Video

[duke knooby]

this interview fits perfectly well right here... which means it should probably be somewhere else

mr steinman from '84

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nbcfd0I8o1g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifO8j-RTMhc

the slightly on topic bit is 2nd link about 6.40 in

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by duke knooby

this interview fits perfectly well right here... which means it should probably be somewhere else

mr steinman from '84

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nbcfd0I8o1g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifO8j-RTMhc

the slightly on topic bit is 2nd link about 6.40 in

Interesting interview- thanks!

I guess even Elton John's band couldn't save Manilow's "Read 'Em and Weep".

[Wario]

if you listed, the intro to The Bitch is Back has a few sections taht sound like Dead Ringer's intro

YouTube Video

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by Wario

if you listed, the intro to The Bitch is Back has a few sections taht sound like Dead Ringer's intro

Yeah, I hear that a little bit.