Rock And Roll Dreams in 1981

Evil One · 09 Dec 2009, 16:03

I'm sure most people are familiar with the story that Meat and Jim 'traded' Dead Ringer for RARD in 1981. Had they not traded how do you think things would have gone? I assume Jim (or more probably Rory Dodd) would have recorded a solo Dead Ringer for Bad For Good. I doubt that Meat would have released RARD as a single though and it would have just become a forgotten song in a similar fashion to Everything Is Permitted. I also think it unlikely that Dead Ringer would have resurfaced on Bat 2.

*AndyK* · 09 Dec 2009, 16:33

All things considered I'm glad things played out the way they did with those two songs.

The two versions of RARD are different enough to stand on their own merits.

A 1981 Meat RARD would as you say have just become a lost song I think, and a 1981 Jim/Rory Deadringer would have been a filler on Bad For Good and would possibly have never been recorded by Meat. Admittedly that latter possibility would also have resulted in Meat not leaning on it so heavily in his live shows now, perhaps we'd hear more of Peel Out or I'll Kill You If You Don't Come Back?

Pudding · 09 Dec 2009, 21:19

I prefer RARD to Deadringer, I'm glad things worked out the way they did and Meat still got to sing RARD.

Evil One · 09 Dec 2009, 21:27

I'm also glad things worked out the way they did as I think the BFG version of Rock And Roll Dreams is cack, and would still be cack even with Meat's vocals.

**RadioMaster** · 09 Dec 2009, 21:40

Im with mr king on this one

renegadeangel · 10 Dec 2009, 01:59

Sorry but I think that Meat only traded the song because he had no duets on DEADRINGER. I think RARD was probably one of the strongest songs on the album if it had ever made it.
I think the inclusion of RARD might have give DEADRINGER a bit more of a push in the states.

**RadioMaster** · 10 Dec 2009, 08:20

judging from the Bad for Good RNRD I dont think it would have been such a memorable song. The quality on Bat2 is all about the production IMO

**allrevvedup** · 10 Dec 2009, 12:02

I always thought Mr Steinman's version of RRAD was always very ELO like and would definitely have been lost in the shuffle had meat recorded it back then. He got the hit single Dead Ringer badly needed by recording dead ringer for love.

The BAT II production and version of RRAD was much superior as far as I'm concerned and just showed how good Meat and Jim are together.

Pudding · 11 Dec 2009, 04:53

Was Dead Ringer For Love a hit because of the song, Meat Loaf or because Cher gave it legs, literally lots of legs...LOL Had someone else sung it with Meat, I don't think it would have been the hit that it was.

Wario · 11 Dec 2009, 05:17

what would've been even better is that if Bad For Good came out with both meat and jim on it then Dead Ringer came out in 1983. Then Back Into Hell in 1985 and The equivalent of The Monster is Loose in 1993.

But sadly that was never to be, but we were compensated with the fantastic album entitled BAD ATTITUDE.

As for RRD itself Meat's version on BOOH2 is the best and if it was released on DR id agree that it'd be forgotten.

But i would've liked to see a 1981 meat version as a B-side just for the hell of hearing that stage of his voice rip through it.

Also think the 1974 versions of MTYD and presence of the Lord should be included as bonus tracks to a never-to-happen remaster

A song that could've benefited if put on DR is Bad For Good ....

renegadeangel · 14 Dec 2009, 01:28

It was a hit because Meat gave it a great stage presence. It replaced PARADISE for a while as the all american boy girl song.
I would be more interested in the songs that Meat recorded but were never released. Rumor has it they include:
Its all coming back to me from the early nineties
Bad for Good from the late eighties
Making love out of nothing at all from the late eighties
What part of my body hurts the most from 2005
Not allowed to love from 2005
God has left the building from 2005

All of these have been rumored for years to be done by Meat. I'm sure they have been but have been locked away by the lawyers.

Wario · 14 Dec 2009, 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by renegadeangel

It was a hit because Meat gave it a great stage presence. It replaced PARADISE for a while as the all american boy girl song.

Evil One · 14 Dec 2009, 21:23

Sometimes it's easier just to

than to

.

renegadeangel · 15 Dec 2009, 02:17

When he played Canada the two times I saw him in 1989 he played DEADRINGER instead of PARADISE. He also played HEAVEN CAN WAIT instead of TWO OUT OF THREE at one of his concerts. He made a big thing about this as he said he rarely played HEAVEN live.

Wario · 16 Dec 2009, 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by renegadeangel

When he played Canada the two times I saw him in 1989 he played DEADRINGER instead of PARADISE. He also played HEAVEN CAN WAIT instead of TWO OUT OF THREE at one of his concerts. He made a big thing about this as he said he rarely played HEAVEN live.

oh no he didnt. In 1989 DRFL took teh spot of midnight at the lost and found. no way he didnt do paradise. he would've been dead before he got off the stage.

though the heaven can wait you speak of interests me. a 1989 version would sound so good!

**RadioMaster** · 16 Dec 2009, 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarioLoaf

oh no he didnt. In 1989 DRFL took teh spot of midnight at the lost and found. no way he didnt do paradise. he would've been dead before he got off the stage.

though the heaven can wait you speak of interests me. a 1989 version would sound so good!

says the boy who wasnt even born in 89! lol

Wario · 17 Dec 2009, 00:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadioMaster

says the boy who wasnt even born in 89! lol

lol this is true. i prefer teh company of adults over 30

Sarge · 17 Dec 2009, 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadioMaster

says the boy who wasnt even born in 89! lol

Says another spring chicken...

renegadeangel · 18 Dec 2009, 03:24

Trust me. It was at Rock and Roll Heaven in Toronto when DR took the place of PARADISE
It was in Hamilton at a club called Dallas that he sang HEAVEN instead of TWO OUT OF THREE. He was perfect on that song.

Wario · 18 Dec 2009, 03:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by renegadeangel

Trust me. It was at Rock and Roll Heaven in Toronto when DR took the place of PARADISE
It was in Hamilton at a club called Dallas that he sang HEAVEN instead of TWO OUT OF THREE. He was perfect on that song.

i believe he did do DR but its odd he wouldn't do paradise

renegadeangel · 19 Dec 2009, 03:05

I think that it came down to a timing issue. He didn't come on until 11pm and was over at 1AM. It was during the BBIS era and there was a fair bit played from that album. I remember he opened with BBIS, he also played RNRM, MASCULINE.
He even played MODERN GIRL. He of course played BAT as the final song.

Wario · 19 Dec 2009, 03:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by renegadeangel

I think that it came down to a timing issue. He didn't come on until 11pm and was over at 1AM. It was during the BBIS era and there was a fair bit played from that album. I remember he opened with BBIS, he also played RNRM, MASCULINE.
He even played MODERN GIRL. He of course played BAT as the final song.

You probably left after BOOH, but didnt stay for the encores which would've been Paradise and the Rock medley.

Evil One · 19 Dec 2009, 05:54

Or he could be telling the truth. Meat played a couple of festivals on the BBIS tour and he didn't always do Paradise. I think it went:
Blind Before I Stop
Masculine
Rock N Roll Mercs
Took The Words
Midnight or Modern Girl
All Revved Up
Bat Out Of Hell
Rock N Roll Medley

*AndyK* · 19 Dec 2009, 11:54

Meat hasn't played Paradise at every show he's performed. So it' sperfectly reasonable hear. And I tend to beleive someone who was at the show ...

There were two shows in 2006 where it didn't appear (Boston and Mannheim) and I can think of at least one other where he didn't play it back in the mid 80's

Wario · 19 Dec 2009, 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyK

Meat hasn't played Paradise at every show he's performed. So it' sperfectly reasonable hear. And I tend to beleive someone who was at the show ...

There were two shows in 2006 where it didn't appear (Boston and Mannheim) and I can think of at least one other where he didn't play it back in the mid 80's

Im just sorta used to it being such a main stay that i doubted it lol.

Those few shows where he didnt perform it must've felt so short or felt so good

09 Dec 2009, 16:03	#1
Evil One Mega Loafer Join Date: 15.01.2007 Posts: 5,193	Rock And Roll Dreams in 1981 I'm sure most people are familiar with the story that Meat and Jim 'traded' Dead Ringer for RARD in 1981. Had they not traded how do you think things would have gone? I assume Jim (or more probably Rory Dodd) would have recorded a solo Dead Ringer for Bad For Good. I doubt that Meat would have released RARD as a single though and it would have just become a forgotten song in a similar fashion to Everything Is Permitted. I also think it unlikely that Dead Ringer would have resurfaced on Bat 2.

09 Dec 2009, 16:33	#2
AndyK Relentless Join Date: 21.11.2003 Location: Over the top..... seeing what's on the other side Posts: 18,694	All things considered I'm glad things played out the way they did with those two songs. The two versions of RARD are different enough to stand on their own merits. A 1981 Meat RARD would as you say have just become a lost song I think, and a 1981 Jim/Rory Deadringer would have been a filler on Bad For Good and would possibly have never been recorded by Meat. Admittedly that latter possibility would also have resulted in Meat not leaning on it so heavily in his live shows now, perhaps we'd hear more of Peel Out or I'll Kill You If You Don't Come Back?

09 Dec 2009, 21:19	#3
Pudding I'm A Prize Fight Lover... Join Date: 22.10.2003 Location: New Zealand Posts: 5,532	I prefer RARD to Deadringer, I'm glad things worked out the way they did and Meat still got to sing RARD.

09 Dec 2009, 21:27	#4
Evil One Mega Loafer Join Date: 15.01.2007 Posts: 5,193	I'm also glad things worked out the way they did as I think the BFG version of Rock And Roll Dreams is cack, and would still be cack even with Meat's vocals.

09 Dec 2009, 21:40	#5
RadioMaster The German Join Date: 11.03.2006 Location: some kind of hunting lodge for rich weirdos... Posts: 15,778	Im with mr king on this one

10 Dec 2009, 01:59	#6
renegadeangel Super Loafer Join Date: 18.05.2006 Posts: 604	Sorry but I think that Meat only traded the song because he had no duets on DEADRINGER. I think RARD was probably one of the strongest songs on the album if it had ever made it. I think the inclusion of RARD might have give DEADRINGER a bit more of a push in the states.

10 Dec 2009, 08:20	#7
RadioMaster The German Join Date: 11.03.2006 Location: some kind of hunting lodge for rich weirdos... Posts: 15,778	judging from the Bad for Good RNRD I dont think it would have been such a memorable song. The quality on Bat2 is all about the production IMO

10 Dec 2009, 12:02	#8
allrevvedup "Most things that i worry about, never happen anyway" Join Date: 29.11.2003 Location: Liverpool Posts: 5,356	I always thought Mr Steinman's version of RRAD was always very ELO like and would definitely have been lost in the shuffle had meat recorded it back then. He got the hit single Dead Ringer badly needed by recording dead ringer for love. The BAT II production and version of RRAD was much superior as far as I'm concerned and just showed how good Meat and Jim are together.

11 Dec 2009, 04:53	#9
Pudding I'm A Prize Fight Lover... Join Date: 22.10.2003 Location: New Zealand Posts: 5,532	Was Dead Ringer For Love a hit because of the song, Meat Loaf or because Cher gave it legs, literally lots of legs...LOL Had someone else sung it with Meat, I don't think it would have been the hit that it was.

11 Dec 2009, 05:17	#10
Wario Monstro helps me spell things... Join Date: 05.01.2007 Location: Masculine, Pennsylvania Posts: 9,105	what would've been even better is that if Bad For Good came out with both meat and jim on it then Dead Ringer came out in 1983. Then Back Into Hell in 1985 and The equivalent of The Monster is Loose in 1993. But sadly that was never to be, but we were compensated with the fantastic album entitled BAD ATTITUDE. As for RRD itself Meat's version on BOOH2 is the best and if it was released on DR id agree that it'd be forgotten. But i would've liked to see a 1981 meat version as a B-side just for the hell of hearing that stage of his voice rip through it. Also think the 1974 versions of MTYD and presence of the Lord should be included as bonus tracks to a never-to-happen remaster A song that could've benefited if put on DR is Bad For Good ....

14 Dec 2009, 01:28	#11
renegadeangel Super Loafer Join Date: 18.05.2006 Posts: 604	It was a hit because Meat gave it a great stage presence. It replaced PARADISE for a while as the all american boy girl song. I would be more interested in the songs that Meat recorded but were never released. Rumor has it they include: Its all coming back to me from the early nineties Bad for Good from the late eighties Making love out of nothing at all from the late eighties What part of my body hurts the most from 2005 Not allowed to love from 2005 God has left the building from 2005 All of these have been rumored for years to be done by Meat. I'm sure they have been but have been locked away by the lawyers.

14 Dec 2009, 21:23	#13
Evil One Mega Loafer Join Date: 15.01.2007 Posts: 5,193	Sometimes it's easier just to than to .

15 Dec 2009, 02:17	#14
renegadeangel Super Loafer Join Date: 18.05.2006 Posts: 604	When he played Canada the two times I saw him in 1989 he played DEADRINGER instead of PARADISE. He also played HEAVEN CAN WAIT instead of TWO OUT OF THREE at one of his concerts. He made a big thing about this as he said he rarely played HEAVEN live.

18 Dec 2009, 03:24	#19
renegadeangel Super Loafer Join Date: 18.05.2006 Posts: 604	Trust me. It was at Rock and Roll Heaven in Toronto when DR took the place of PARADISE It was in Hamilton at a club called Dallas that he sang HEAVEN instead of TWO OUT OF THREE. He was perfect on that song.

19 Dec 2009, 03:05	#21
renegadeangel Super Loafer Join Date: 18.05.2006 Posts: 604	I think that it came down to a timing issue. He didn't come on until 11pm and was over at 1AM. It was during the BBIS era and there was a fair bit played from that album. I remember he opened with BBIS, he also played RNRM, MASCULINE. He even played MODERN GIRL. He of course played BAT as the final song.

19 Dec 2009, 05:54	#23
Evil One Mega Loafer Join Date: 15.01.2007 Posts: 5,193	Or he could be telling the truth. Meat played a couple of festivals on the BBIS tour and he didn't always do Paradise. I think it went: Blind Before I Stop Masculine Rock N Roll Mercs Took The Words Midnight or Modern Girl All Revved Up Bat Out Of Hell Rock N Roll Medley

19 Dec 2009, 11:54	#24
AndyK Relentless Join Date: 21.11.2003 Location: Over the top..... seeing what's on the other side Posts: 18,694	Meat hasn't played Paradise at every show he's performed. So it' sperfectly reasonable hear. And I tend to beleive someone who was at the show ... There were two shows in 2006 where it didn't appear (Boston and Mannheim) and I can think of at least one other where he didn't play it back in the mid 80's