Question to Steinman fans

[AndrewG]

I came across Jim Steinman's entry in wikipedia.
It says this under "Bad for Good":

In 1981 a sequel album to Bat Out of Hell was ready, but Meat Loaf's voice, after years of continuing tour, was not. This time Jim Steinman co-produced all of the tracks. Todd Rundgren, the producer from "Bat Out of Hell" co-produced every track except "Rock and Roll Dreams Come Through", which was co-produced by Jimmy Iovine, who later headed Interscope Records. Steinman had to sing his songs himself, with the help of backup vocalist Rory Dodd; the album was released as Bad for Good. The album produced one hit, Rock and Roll Dreams Come Through, which rose to position 32 on the Billboard charts in a 6 week run in July 1981. The tracks "Lost Boys and Golden Girls," "Surf's Up" and "Rock and Roll Dreams Come Through" were sung by Rory Dodd, despite the fact that Dodd is not credited for this work in the album's credits. Jim Steinman appeared in a music video for the song, lip-synching to Dodd's vocals. The song "Left in the Dark" was later recorded by Barbra Streisand on her album "Emotions," with Jim Steinman as the sole producer of that track.

LINK

I never knew this. I really thought that was Jim's voice on all tracks. I can't hear much of difference in voice between Surf's up and Left in the Dark especially. Is this true or just made up nonsense.?????

[evil nickname]

True. If you look at the credits for ther album, its says "Featured vocal: Rory Dodd" for both Lost Boys and Golden Girls and Surfs Up. Rock And Roll Dreams would still be sung by Jim, though.

[ChloeLee88]

OMG i really never noticed thet sound the same.... i gotta go listen to these now!!
Chloe

[Pudding]

Originally Posted by Musicman

The album produced one hit, Rock and Roll Dreams Come Through, which rose to position 32 on the Billboard charts in a 6 week run in July 1981.

I think it's worth noting that the album itself reached #63 in the US and #7 in the UK, which is pretty good considering.

Originally Posted by Musicman

The tracks "Lost Boys and Golden Girls," "Surf's Up" and "Rock and Roll Dreams Come Through" were sung by Rory Dodd, despite the fact that Dodd is not credited for this work in the album's credits.

Although Steinman is credited with Lead vocals, Rory Dodd is credited as 'Featured vocals'. If you have the free EP that came with the album it says on the back for Lost Boys - Featured Vocals :Rory Dodd, exactly the same for Surf's Up. It doesn't for Rock'n'Roll Dreams, which it should, but if that's Steinmans only single release, then it's not really a solo effort if you're crediting someone else with the vocals.

Originally Posted by Musicman

I never knew this. I really thought that was Jim's voice on all tracks. I can't hear much of difference in voice between Surf's up and Left in the Dark especially. Is this true or just made up nonsense.

It's clearly noticeable on Surf's Up especially when the 'And my body is burning like a naked wire' kicks in. Steinman could never reach those notes, the pitch is too high for him.

I personally think Bad For Good is an excellent album but Steinman's vocals on what he sings, suck.

Pud

[mikeloaf]

I know I heard/read at some time ( not sure when/ where ) that Meat Loaf's voice was fine at this time. He didn't like the song's and so thats why he didn't record them. He also talks on VH-1 about trading 'Rock and roll dreams' for 'Dead Ringer'.

[Pudding]

Meats voice was shot in '81 even he's said it was. If Rory Dodd is singing on 3 of the songs on Bad For Good, then there'd have been no good for Meat Loaf at the time.

There's all sorts of myths and urban legends surrounding Bad For Good (Renegade Angel) and Dead Ringer. But from what I can gather, Meat and Jim were under contract to put out a record, Meat wrecked his voice due to the long touring schedule he'd done and his style of singing, Jim didn't like what he heard coming out of Meat, so he recorded the songs himself (as he'd already done most of the production) hence Bad For Good. And chucked Meat Loaf a load of songs (due to a contractual agreement) to record on his own, hence Dead Ringer.

If Meats voice was in form as it was for Bat1 then Bad For Good (or Renegade Angel as it would have been known) would have been sung by Meat and Steinman would have fully produced Dead Ringer.

Pud

[AndrewG]

This Rory singing on these tracks is new to me anyway. I've had the album (including the lp with ep) for about 10 years but never noticed all this before... unbelievable.

[mikeloaf]

I doubt we'll ever know the 'truth' about this!

[Pudding]

Absolutely we'll never know the full ins and outs surrounding B4G or DR, but the only things I know for a fact is, Meats voice was shot (both Jim AND Meat have said so) and that they were under pressure and under contract to release another album.

There was also a falling out between Meat Loaf and his then manager David Sonenberg, whom he parted company with but Jim kept. And I think his new manager Alan Dellentash, just wanted to make money off of Meat Loaf.

Pud

[Bart]

That is the jim steinman fan base opinion that " jim did not allow Meat to sing his songs cause his voice was shot".

Meat's story is that he did not like the concept from Bad for good and that BFG and DIMP were bloody copies. He did not want to record a copy of Bat out of hell.
IThat could be the main reason. Dead Ringer he sings quite well. So he could record BFG but he did not want it.

[Pudding]

Yes Bart

Pud

[Renegade Angel]

I think meats voice is superb on deadringer, its an underatted album and to hear Meat play any of these live would be amazing, he always performed Im Gonna Love Her For both of us very well during the 80s.
I think meat said that his voice was pieced together bit by bit for deadringer. What I have never understood about the voice problem during this period is, why did he tour if he couldn't sing?

[Pudding]

Reluctant as he might be, even Bart would agree that Meat had a hell of a lot of legal troubles around this time and people were suing him up to the ying yang, he needed to pay the bills and feed his family. He's only human after all.

Pud

[mikeloaf]

Also goes some way to understanding why he ( from my understanding ) believes he sings better now than ever. No pressure. Or at least not as much. I suspect he's 100% the boss these days.

[Bart]

Well Pud, he failed in taht cause the dead ringer tour was a financial failure. His voice was not good but he just wants to tour and promote the album. Thats just the way he is. In november 2003 he was as sick as a dog and still he wants to perform and that has nothing to do with the money.

he is just a focking train. Its what he says but indeed he is. Money is not the reason.

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by Renegade Angel

I think meats voice is superb on deadringer, its an underatted album

Here here
A VERY underated album IMHO.

[Pudding]

Originally Posted by Bart

Well Pud, he failed in taht cause the dead ringer tour was a financial failure.

I never said it wasn't. But he'd have still been under contract to do it anyway.

Pud

[rockfenris2005]

Ok, here's the deal: before you guys tangle this around for the umpteen time. Pudding, you should have spared me the hassle... but...

We all know that one of the songs from Dead Ringer is the first (to our knowledge) Steinman song that Meat Loaf performed. It was from the musical of the same name, More Than You Deserve, which flopped ignominiously at the Public Theatre. Meat Loaf recorded it as an EP, but with another producer. Steinman wasn't allowed in the studio. The EP (mysteriously) went missing...

For some reason, the song wasn't included on Bat Out of Hell: but it was auditioned (primarily) when Meat and Jim were searching for labels. Another song they did, which ended up on Bad for Good, was Left in the Dark. More Than You Deserve was played (many times) on the original Bat tour. I'd hardly call this song a "rip-off" of something from Bat Out of Hell, because it was meant to be apart of Bat - then Renegade Angel - probably Bad for Good - and eventually Dead Ringer. It's never been done since

The next song, for the second album, was Everything is Permitted. Meat and Jim even mention it in this interview:

http://www.jimsteinman.com/juliachild.htm

QUOTE:

Q. What can you tell us about the next Meat Loaf album?

Meat Loaf: Well, we’ve got one song called Everything Is Permitted which is real good. It’s along the same theme as the first album. Plus there’s a tune called More Than You Deserve which we’ve been doing for a long time on stage. In a way, it’s become a sort of theme song, but we’ve never had the right arrangements for it. Jim has worked on it a lot and I now think we’ve gotten it down.

These two songs, and probably Left in the Dark (included), were meant to be on the album Renegade Angel. Steinman and Meat, in an interview for Bat II, even describe what the cover would have been like (and I think it's also mentioned in The Phenomenology of Excess?). Picture this: a gym, with heaps of women making out, and an angel with exhaust pipes on his back flying up into the heavens. Very intriguing... LOL

The fall-out with R.A. is explained (the best one I could find on such short-notice) at:

http://www.jimsteinman.com/00classicr3.htm

QUOTE:

But success came with turmoil. Even Meat Loaf's mighty voice was broken by the touring schedule required and the attendant pressures. As a result, he was unable to record Steinman's "Renegade Angel," which Steinman eventually cut himself as "Bad For Good" in 1981. This was the period in his life that Meat Loaf now describes as his "darkest hour". Famously, Steinman had spliced together Meat's vocals from separately recorded phrases and one-liners to complete the wonderful "Dead Ringer" album after the singer had claimed to be experiencing a mental block.

"Yeah, I had a mental block, but not the kind of block you're talking about," Meat told Classic Rock last year. "My block was because "Bad For Good" was trying to be a copy of "Bat Out Of Hell". "Dance In My Pants" was trying to be a copy of "Paradise By The Dashboard Light" and "Lost Boys And Golden Girls" was trying to be a copy of "Heaven Can Wait."

Afterwards, they split, apparently for good. "I was upset at everyone trying to rush the follow-up out," said Meat, recalling their disagreement. "Jimmy and I had spent four years of our lives putting together "Bat Out Of Hell".. Yeah, Jimmy wrote, because he was a better writer than I was. But we worked together on those songs. I said, Jim this is not how we did "Bat Out Of Hell." We need to sit down and work together. And he just, like, shrugs. And I just lost it. I said, that's it. I went back to the house we were staying in, packed the car, took my wife and split."

The differing characters and expectations had ultimately driven a wedge between the two. Steinman draws a line between Meat the man and Meat the character who sung his songs. But the famous court case that ensued over the album's profits left the singer floundering. In 1983, he was sued to the tune of $85 million by Steinman and former manager David Sonenberg and was forced to file for bankruptcy.

While Steinman's vision continued to provide hits throughout the last 20 years for artists as diverse as Bonnie Tyler, Barbra Streisand, Air Supply, the Sisters of Mercy and even Boyzone, Meat Loaf drifted without him through a succession of half-baked efforts like "Midnight At The Lost And Found" ('83), "Bad Attitude" ('84) and "Blind Before I Stop" ('86).

That's probably everything Pudding and Bart explained, except they were both right. Meat didn't originally (according to his bio) like the way Steinman was echoing Bat 1. He thought he was pressued by the record-company, and felt the whole thing was wrong (however, many of the songs he has covered over time, mostly on Bad Attitude and Back Into Hell).

After that, he lost his voice. He couldn't sing anything, even if they wrote an album the "proper way". So that's that...

Hopefully that's all cleared up

[Bart]

well..ehm.... , that was just what i was trying to say all the time

He did not record it cause he did not like the concept.

[Pudding]

You got to love the puns Meat Loaf drifted without him through a succession of half-baked efforts Always make sure your Meat Loaf is fully baked

Pud

[Bart]

I don't think Meat Loaf fans don't love that line. It is the line I have read a lot back in late eighties and i hate it and it is not true.

[Pudding]

It's not meant to be true, it's meant to be a joke. However, most people would agree that BBIS and MATLAF weren't Meats finer moments.

Pud

[Bart]

BBIS was for me the second after Bat. I thought it was great. And abouts Meats finer moments:
I think it was his finer moments cause life was tough for him back tehn. i am not going into details we all know off but he did a great job in view of all the misery. The tours in 84/85 and 86/87 and 88 and 89 were awesome. The record company really sucked. Arista was a very bad company. And CBS did not care about The Loaf at all. They just wanted to spent little money and did not care about The Loaf's career. They had a short term view and just wanted to earn a lot of money right after Bat.

[Oriel]

To a Steinman fan, there's clearly a difference when you listen more closely.

[Pudding]

Originally Posted by Bart

BBIS was for me the second after Bat. I thought it was great.

I did say most people NOT all, I think we're past the miracle season now and have to wait closer to Easter for one to happen and for you to agree with anything I say. But I'm fairly convinced most peoples list in order of preference and quality would see MATALF & BBIS near or at the bottom.

As for finer moments, I agree that Meat did extremely well through adversity at a very difficult time, but I'm just talking about the music baby, just the music and not his personal life

Pud