Question about Bolero

Chris · 05 May 2004, 14:10

I have just been listening to the live version of Great Boleros Of Fire from the 25th anniversary edition of Bat.

About 2 minutes in I started to notice a fairly regularly drum beat (sort of do-da-da-da-do) which for some reason I recognised!!!

Is it me or has it appeared somewhere in another song!! Been racking my brain cell but cannot place where it is from!!!

evil nickname · 05 May 2004, 15:02

"Ewigkeit" (Eternity) from Tanz der Vampire is most likely the one you're after.

Other than that, it is "Gods" in Neverland, and I'm sure it's in The Dream Engine too somewhere, but I can't seem to find it in there at the moment.

*AndyK* · 05 May 2004, 21:48

The underlying beat is from Ravels (sp?) Bolero .... think Torville and Dean. Jim resued adapted it for Meats intro in the 70's and then reused it again for Dance Of The Vampires.

evil nickname · 05 May 2004, 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyK

The underlying beat is from Ravels (sp?) Bolero .... think Torville and Dean. Jim resued adapted it for Meats intro in the 70's and then reused it again for Dance Of The Vampires.

Ravel is spelled right ;-) But please allow me to rehash a lot of what I said before, with some minor additions about Ravel.

The beat may be somewhat similar to Ravel's Bolero, but the bolero is an traditional spanish dance, and the accompanying music is also called a bolero. Just like a waltz is danced to waltz music, or a waltz.
Although Ravel's Bolero is a marvelous piece, he did not "invent" the bolero. He certainly does not deserve the credit he gets for it on the 2001 remastered edition of BOOH and the 25th Anniversary edition (which is basically the same, except that the latter has the HOOH DVD). The (Great) Boloro (-s of Fire) is not Ravel's Bolero. It's Jim's Bolero.
He used it as "Gods" in Neverland (1977 workshop), then an instrumental version was used as the live intro - and 20 years later it resurfaced again as "Ewigkeit" in Tanz Der Vampire. Add another 5 and it's in Dance Of The Vampires as well.

*AndyK* · 05 May 2004, 23:37

Yes. It IS Jim's Bolero, which is based heavily enough on the well known piece "Ravels Bolero" for Ravel to get a credit.

Whatever it's called (be it a Bolero, a foxtrot, or a tin of spam), the bottom line is Jim recycled something from another composer into a number of excellent pieces of his own, there's no problem with that is there?

Chris · 05 May 2004, 23:41

I probabyl have heard it from Ravel but I found what I had heard it from mainly earlier!!

A live recording of C.W. Macoll singing Convoy!!!!!

evil nickname · 05 May 2004, 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyK

Yes. It IS Jim's Bolero, which is based heavily enough on the well known piece "Ravels Bolero" for Ravel to get a credit.

Whatever it's called (be it a Bolero, a foxtrot, or a tin of spam), the bottom line is Jim recycled something from another composer into a number of excellent pieces of his own, there's no problem with that is there? :D

Well, there's no problem with Jim "borrowing" stuff, but I don't think that Ravel should have been creditted for it on the BOOH re-issues. I can't seem to recall that Ravel used all those nifty guitar bits :)

rockfenris2005 · 06 May 2004, 08:29

The first appearance of Steinman's Bolero, even before GODS, was as "Defencelessness" - a song he composed for a production of Brecht's Good Woman of Setzuan. If you want the lyrics, PM me.

Dave · 07 May 2004, 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

A live recording of C.W. Macoll singing Convoy!!!!!

Convoy---wowzers---THAT is a very highly underrated song. There is some true whit and charm in that piece. I am glad they dug up the old CW Macoll character for the most recent Manheim Steamroller album. All of the "trucker" songs from the late 70's and early 80's are stunning masterpieces.

*wink*

ROCK ON FIRE BALL!!!

05 May 2004, 14:10	#1
Chris Mega Loafer Join Date: 14.04.2002 Location: Somewhere in the real world. Posts: 7,527	Question about Bolero I have just been listening to the live version of Great Boleros Of Fire from the 25th anniversary edition of Bat. About 2 minutes in I started to notice a fairly regularly drum beat (sort of do-da-da-da-do) which for some reason I recognised!!! Is it me or has it appeared somewhere in another song!! Been racking my brain cell but cannot place where it is from!!!

05 May 2004, 15:02	#2
evil nickname Guest Join Date: 19.04.2003 Posts: 2,238	"Ewigkeit" (Eternity) from Tanz der Vampire is most likely the one you're after. Other than that, it is "Gods" in Neverland, and I'm sure it's in The Dream Engine too somewhere, but I can't seem to find it in there at the moment.

05 May 2004, 21:48	#3
AndyK Relentless Join Date: 21.11.2003 Location: Over the top..... seeing what's on the other side Posts: 18,694	The underlying beat is from Ravels (sp?) Bolero .... think Torville and Dean. Jim resued adapted it for Meats intro in the 70's and then reused it again for Dance Of The Vampires.

05 May 2004, 23:37	#5
AndyK Relentless Join Date: 21.11.2003 Location: Over the top..... seeing what's on the other side Posts: 18,694	Yes. It IS Jim's Bolero, which is based heavily enough on the well known piece "Ravels Bolero" for Ravel to get a credit. Whatever it's called (be it a Bolero, a foxtrot, or a tin of spam), the bottom line is Jim recycled something from another composer into a number of excellent pieces of his own, there's no problem with that is there?

05 May 2004, 23:41	#6
Chris Mega Loafer Join Date: 14.04.2002 Location: Somewhere in the real world. Posts: 7,527	I probabyl have heard it from Ravel but I found what I had heard it from mainly earlier!! A live recording of C.W. Macoll singing Convoy!!!!!

06 May 2004, 08:29	#8
rockfenris2005 Mega Loafer Join Date: 16.02.2003 Location: Posts: 2,217	The first appearance of Steinman's Bolero, even before GODS, was as "Defencelessness" - a song he composed for a production of Brecht's Good Woman of Setzuan. If you want the lyrics, PM me.