Concert recordings..

[duranie]

Hi guys, I read through the rules to make sure I could post a request like this, and didn't see anything against it, so here we go!

Are there any tapers on this board, and will anyone here be taping any shows this summer? I will be doing a Meat Loaf/Cyndi Lauper show, and I am looking for people to trade with. I collect on Cyndi, not Meat Loaf. But I would love to trade the Meat Loaf show for Cyndi. I do fan-to-fan trading.. not sales of live recordings.

So - if anyone will be taping any of the following dates.. please tape Cyndi as well and we will have a trade!

July 23 - Denver, CO
July 25 - Los Angeles, CA
July 26 - Las Vegas, NV
July 29 - Phoenix, AZ
July 31 - Reno, NV
August 2 - Kelseyville, CA
August 25 - Syracuse, NY
August 29 - Essex Junction, VT
August 30 - Holmdel, NJ
September 3 - Uncasville, CT

Hope to hear from you -
Colin
duranie@nb.sympatico.ca

[CarylB]

I'd never bootleg tape one of Meat's concerts, and I don't think he'd be happy to see this here

[plymboy]

id like to know what meats opinion on this is.some bands really dont mind being bootlegged as long as profit isnt made from the reordings,but wouldnt like to say meat is one of these artists.im sure he is well aware of what goes on at concerts.for all the years he has been going im sure many recordings have been made.so if youre reading this meat what is your opinion,do you accept it or would you kick someones ass over it.

[CarylB]

I'd be surprised to learn that Meat didn't mind bootleg recordings. Whatever the original intentions, eventually one of these is likely to end up on eBay, and bootlegs are generally of poor sound quality and do not do the performer justice.

Meat puts huge effort into giving the best performance he can, and I can only imagine how distressing it would be for inferior recordings to be circulated and, even worse, offered for public auction.

Imo bootlegs are bootlegs, whatever the source or motivation, and can harm the performer's reputation and damage sales of legitimate recordings. When I buy a ticket to a Meat Loaf concert I buy the opportunity to hear a great performer deliver an incredible performance. I do not believe I buy his permission to take in a recording device and make a tape which is bound to be of poorer quality. In the same way when I buy one of Meat's CDs I do not believe I buy the right to copy this for others so they do not need to buy it. The latter infringes copyright law, and I would have assumed unauthorised amateur taping of concerts was the same. However, even if it is not, I would consider it dubious form.

[plymboy]

ive heard it said and i agree with it that people who buy/trade bootlegs already have evrything that is official.also i cant undertstand how record sales can be affected if the people who buy boots already have all official albums by meat( or whoever).im not here to defend bootlegs but just saying that i dont think record sales can be affected if people trade bootlegs.bono from u2 has said they encourage fans to turn up to the concerts with recording gear as long as no profit is made from the recordings.im sure meat wouldnt like to think that people are recording his concerts and people selling them.as i said im not here to defend or encorage people to buy bootlegs but i would like to hear meats opinion.

[plymboy]

i have nothing against people collecting bootlegs( its your choice) but you could have found a better place to ask about them.meat posts on here and all i can say is be careful as i wouldnt like to be you ass if it gets kicked.as i said its your choice to collect boots but its a bit daft posting on a site where the artist concerned is posting.

[plymboy]

i cant believe that duranie is expecting people to ( on his behalf ) to record the concerts listed.now why cant you tape the shows yourself if you want them so bad ( are you not going to the concerts????).

[CarylB]

plymboy wrote:

ive heard it said and i agree with it that people who buy/trade bootlegs already have evrything that is official ... i dont think record sales can be affected if people trade bootlegs

Whilst it may well be that many of those who buy/trade bootlegs already have anything that is official, (and this can probably only be said for illicit recordings and not for offical released CDs) it is by no means true that all do. I have seen on other message boards requests for people to "burn a copy of CHSIB" for them as they want to hear it but don't want to buy it. Bootleg tapes and CDs do harm sales. Just as many people subscribe to sites where they can download movies free, some people will seek free copies of recordings.

you could have found a better place to ask about them.meat posts on here and all i can say is be careful as i wouldnt like to be you [...] if it gets kicked.as i said its your choice to collect boots but its a bit daft posting on a site where the artist concerned is posting.

With this I concur wholeheartedly!!!

[plymboy]

ok you have your opinion and i have mine,but we both seem to agree that the quality of some of these recordings are crap.i just cant see ( and probably never will ) how by trading cds/cassettes ( no money changing hands whatsoever) can affect meatloafs or any other artists record sales.if 100 people wanted a copy of the new album and someone burned a copy of it that ( imo) would affect his sales as its an official album stand corrected not every bootleg collector has every other album of the artist,but a big percentage has( once again,its my opinion).please dont hate me for my opinion.

[evil nickname]

Originally Posted by CarylB

Bootleg tapes and CDs do harm sales.

No one has ever produced solid evidence to that claim. Bootlegs (== non authorized live recordings and/or unreleased material/outtakes) are, afaik, mostly sought after by the 'die-hard' fans. A lot of bands (old Metallica, Dream Theater, U2, Iron Maiden, ...) allow recording of their concerts, as long as no profit is made of such recordings. That can easily be done by trading -- that's not selling, nor buying -- bootlegs. If you don't have material to trade with, there are various other options...

Burning CD's, however, is a completly different story. But please do note that there is also no solid evidence that the global trend (decrease in album sales) is caused by burning/downloading. The record industy tries to let us believe that, but they have got no proof of their claims being true. Meanwhile, they're throwing in copy-protections, etc... often while they're breaching copyright law themselves doing so (explanation: a 'copy protected' CD does not comply to the standards for CD's, therefore they are NOT cd's, and it's illigal to put the "compact disc digital audio" logo on said pieces of plastic. Not many companies seem to know that.)

And about being "a bit daft posting on a site where the artist concerned is posting. ": I'd like to see Meat comment on this, before getting all hot-headed about this. Bootlegs exist, I have no problem with them, and I see no good reason why artists should have them...

William

[plymboy]

i wasnt getting hotheaded,and im pleased to see someone shares my opinion.

[CarylB]

When I said bootlegs can and do harm sales it followed on from

Whilst it may well be that many of those who buy/trade bootlegs already have anything that is official, (and this can probably only be said for illicit recordings and not for offical released CDs)

I meant that illicit copies of officially released recordings can harm sales. I have no idea of the quantities, but it seems to me that every time someone gets a free copy rather than buying a CD it is a sale lost. Enough of these and it harms sales.

I don't think anyone was getting hotheaded either. As far as I can see every post here has been contained and expressed no anger, merely opinions put in a civilised way .. which surely is the basis of discussion and debate.

[The Flying Mouse]

Unfortunatly bootlegs are the only way to get rare live performances.How many OFFICIAL live albums have been released in the UK in 25 years.Two?
I would like to see a lot more official releases.
I've said it many times before,and i'll keep saying it,Meat should have every concert recorded and sell them as orderd if neccersary through the fan clubs and other official vendors at a premium.A good quality official CD of a concert you have attended has got to be the ultimate momento.
That would make the fans very happy,with the added bonus of making Meat's bank manager thank god he's alive.EVERYONE WINS .
How about the videos no longer available?Why let good material sit on a shelf gathering dust?
Forget Hits Out Of Hell.Let's have a double DVD set containing every video Meat has done during his career.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by THE FLYING MOUSE

Meat should have every concert recorded and sell them as orderd if neccersary through the fan clubs and other official vendors at a premium.

Pearl Jam did this with GREAT sucess, that being selling copies of every show from a tour.

Further, Jimmy Buffett (who I have mentioned before) is cool enough to broadcast every concert he plays via the Internet! Buffett's CD sales and ticket sales went through the roof after "the world at large" was able to hear how awesome of a show he put on.

ROCK ON FIRE BALL!!!

[evil nickname]

Originally Posted by David M. Driskell

Pearl Jam did this with GREAT sucess, that being selling copies of every show from a tour.

On a slightly different note: a friend told me that the Deftones are going to do almost the same. Almost. They don't bother with CD's -- just plain downloads. That's another idea...

[Shadows On The Wall]

Yep, i though it was illegal

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Shadows On The Wall

Yep, i though it was illegal

Not always true. There are some venues here in America where you can do all of the recording you want to (i.e., a lot of the small fairgrounds like where Meat did some shows). They do not have policies about recording and taking pictures during the show.

Sad...but true.

ROCK ON FIRE BALL!!!

[R.]

I certainly do not like the idea behind this thread.
I do consider bootlegging as illegal and the recent changes in european copyright laws reflect this too. Even if venues don't have policies regarding recording a show, the artist still holds the copyright of that particular show. And unless he gives you an explicit permission to use the recorded material (radio broadcast as an example), you are committing a crime.
Obviously Metallica and some other artists have done that, Meat hasn't.

Having said that, please respect that I do not want to see any direct or indirect links to bootlegged, ripped or any other copyrighted material in this or any other thread.

R.
webmaster@mlukfc.com

[CarylB]

Thanks R. I had a feeling that was the case. Well, and clearly said.

[tukayaway]

I don't think Bootlegging is bad if the person is doing it for their own pleasure or for no profits. What's bad are the people who buy a block of tickets for a concert only to sell them for a huge profit

Now these people should be put somewhere cold and all be made to stay

[Guppie]

Bootlegs are illegal, but I know a lot of performers that allow them, as long as no one is making money.
I know a guy that has personal permission from the band "Live" to offer bootlegs to fans. He is allowed to do that, as a courtesy from one fan to another fan.

What is Meat's opinion exactly about bootlegs?

[CarylB]

FM wrote:

Unfortunatly bootlegs are the only way to get rare live performances.

Isn't that rather like saying
Unfortunately grave robbing's the only way to get a decent corpse for dissection
Unfortunately buying a kidney from a third world live donor living in poverty's the only way to get one quickly

Being the only way doesn't really make it right imo

And Guppie said:

Bootlegs are illegal, but I know a lot of performers that allow them, as long as no one is making money ....... What is Meat's opinion exactly about bootlegs?

As R said:

.... And unless he gives you an explicit permission to use the recorded material (radio broadcast as an example), you are committing a crime. Obviously Metallica and some other artists have done that, Meat hasn't.

One of the many qualities I respect in Meat is his drive for excellence, his obsession with improvement and that he always strives to give you his best possible standard plus 10%. Frankly it seems to me inconceivable that someone like this would want to have in circulation amateur recordings of his performances made by people with concealed tape recorders. These bootlegs can and frequently do finish up for sale on sites like eBay, however "innocent" the original intention.

This is a man who will never settle for less than his best; who comes on this forum and apologises when a venue let him down on sound quality. R says Meat hasn't given permission. That's enough for me. :)

[Guppie]

If Meat doesn't allow it, that's his right of course. I only said a lot of bands do allow it.
Selling bootlegs? that is NOT done. No performer would ever allow that.

[CarylB]

Morning Guppie

I agree some bands do allow bootlegs .. I was just saying why it seemed to me that this was something Meat would be unlikely imo to welcome. He's about quality and bootlegs generally aren't the best quality. I agree absolutely that it's not on to sell them .. but eBay abounds with ones which have found their way there .. and some clearly recorded for that purpose, along with unofficial compilations. There was one .. can't remember the name now .. but it was a collection of live recordings in a case with a printed cover .. there were some telling mistakes in the track listing of song titles, and it was being sold from Russia.

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by CarylB

FM wrote:

Isn't that rather like saying
Unfortunately grave robbing's the only way to get a decent corpse for dissection
Unfortunately buying a kidney from a third world live donor living in poverty's the only way to get one quickly

It appears I have been quoted out of context
Fans want live performances.If official releases are not available it is inevetable that a market will open for bootlegs.

I said...

I would like to see a lot more official releases.

This would bring an end to the trading of illegal bootlegs, provide the fans with much better quality performances, and, put a hell of a lot of loose change in Meat's pockets.
everybody wins.Nobody loses.

Bit confused about the dead body conection , but if you want to use that as a metophore, death row inmates have been selling their bodies to medical science for years.
Why give away for free what you can make a profit from?

Actually,it does work doesn't it.