in the land of the pig - lyrics

[christa]

Well whatever his eating habits are (and I aint getting into a debate about it) He has the freedom to choose just like me and everyone else on here.

[Pudding]

Originally Posted by christabales

What I find offensive Pud, is the pigs squealing at the end. Is that ok with you?

Pigs are squealing at the end, because that's what pigs do, they squeal. Had you heard a cleaver hitting a block of wood and the squealing suddenly stop, I could see your point that it might be offensive, but that isn't what happens.

However, I think the song would make for a great music video with Meat as the butcher, with all these little piggies running around and Meat having a cleaver in his hand still dripping with blood.



Pud

[Paul191]

Originally Posted by Pudding

Do you find the name Meat Loaf offensive as well then? or have you scribbled out the name Meat from all your CD's and replaced it with Quorn?

Hmmm Quorn Loaf has a bit of a ring to it

Pud

Originally Posted by Pudding

However, I think the song would make for a great music video with Meat as the butcher, with all these little piggies running around and Meat having a cleaver in his hand still dripping with blood.
Pud

I actually think that would make a great video...... Just a shame I don't think the song is 'single' quality.

[mszee]

Am I the only one that sees allegory in this song???

The song isn't either about real butcher or real pigs as far as I am concerned???

Can I be THAT wrong???

[duke knooby]

songs top notch, a real attention grabber, make a great single, i reckon

[mszee]

Originally Posted by Knobby1666

songs top notch, a real attention grabber, make a great single, i reckon

It is a great song...but we're talking about lyrics in it...I think???

[Pudding]

Originally Posted by mszee

Am I the only one that sees allegory in this song???

The song isn't either about real butcher or real pigs as far as I am concerned???

Can I be THAT wrong???

No your not wrong, you're very much correct. But if by some minor miracle this song is released as a single, then you need the butcher to be a butcher and the pigs to be pigs, or you do at the end so people can understand the meaning of the song.

Pud

[mszee]

Originally Posted by Pudding

No your not wrong, you're very much correct. But if by some minor miracle this song is released as a single, then you need the butcher to be a butcher and the pigs to be pigs, or you do at the end so people can understand the meaning of the song.

Pud

It would have made a GREAT video...regardless...of HOW the video is made...this song is a WEALTH of material for any kind of video...one can only use their imagination...hell...there is enough material in this song for 10 different videos.

However...having video for this song just might be a miracle...not holding my breath...but hey...HOPING...

[RadioMaster]

call me stupid, but I still dont really get the meaning of the song

[The Flying Mouse]

OK I can see this thread going a little incy wincy bit into the relmes of whatthehellisthethreadaboutment .

Onr thing i've always liked about art (especially music), is that you take out what you put in.

OK, the artist might have a vision, and write a very particular image or subject.

But take that out of it's context and it's free game.

You can interprate the song however the hell you want.


OK, this comes from Batman, but Batman doesn't actually exist, it never happened, so it's not BOUND to be stuck with the same meaning.


The Pig Vs. Pigs thing.

I prefare PigS.

I know Pig can be plaural, but the "S" takes away the uncertainty of the meaning.

To me it's a song of how the few control the many. Land of PIG, BUTCHER is king, sounds a little too one on one.The S really emphisises the masses to me much more than "Pig" which if taken as plaural, still doesn't convey the MASSES of pigs.Pig sounds like two or three pigs instead of thousands of the things.


About the veggie convo, hay we're all allowed our opinions, but please try not to turn the subject into a convo on the morals of eating meat.

I used to like the song "Where The Wild Roses Grow" by Nick Cave and Kylie Minogue (SO shameful I have a Kylie single at home, it's a guilty pleasure ) but that doesn't mean I endorce taking your main squeeze out to a river bank and giving her a tap on the noggin with a bloody big rock.


The song is a metophore.The term Butchers and Pigs are used to show how much contept the Few (who are singing the song) to the masses.

It's not a song saying, hey i'm hungry, let's go waste some animals.

It's a fat cat song.

Especially the words "the chosen ones", because they DO feel chosen.They believe themselves to be special and above mans law, because they pretty much are.

It is only those people who really matter, we are all pigs that they will slaughter with all the emotion of a butcher if it serves their purpose.

The squeeling doesn't bother me at all.

Tell me that Desmond Child put on his wellies, went to the slaughterhouse with a tape recorder to tape the sound of pigs being killed, and i'll think that's pretty nasty, but pigs do tend to squeel.It's what they do

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by Pudding

No your not wrong, you're very much correct. But if by some minor miracle this song is released as a single, then you need the butcher to be a butcher and the pigs to be pigs, or you do at the end so people can understand the meaning of the song.

Pud

I disagree Pud.

I don't think the general public are so dumb they can't understand a simple metophore.

In fact, the song would be completly LOST using pics of pigs and butchers, because it would then TRULLY be a song about the butchering trade

[mszee]

Originally Posted by RadioMaster

call me stupid, but I still dont really get the meaning of the song

RJ...I think Neil pretty much covered it...if it's still not clear...disregard pigs and butchers...think common masses, government/rulers and society in general...and you will see it all sooner or later....

[MeatGrl1]

I don't think just listen!
Love this song and I don't pick it apart.
Neil sums the song up pretty well I think .

[mszee]

Originally Posted by MeatGrl1

I don't think just listen!
Love this song and I don't pick it apart.
Neil sums the song up pretty well I think .

I disagree...sometimes you have to listen AND think...not necessarily at the same time...but thinking is really good for a person...

And how do you think Neil came to his conclusions anyway to be able to sum it up so well?

And if you didn't think about this song...how do you know he, in fact, is right???

[needmoremeat]

The song reminds me of Animal Farm, which is weird I know because the pigs aren't the ones doing the ruling. Unless of course King is meant like it is in England where he has no proper power and just greets foreign diplomats, opens hospitals etc and waves and so on while the pigs are the government doing the ruling........
But I know that's not what it means!







AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHHH!

[The Flying Mouse]

If you don't think, you'll never find your own meaning to songs.


Back yo the vid, i've just been having thoughts on the matter.


First idea was that it would show a busy city.

Rush hour.

People rushing round the streets.

Then, to tie the image to the metophore, the crowd of people could turn into a crowd of pigs for a second, then change back into people.


Then I had a second idea, that I MUCH prefare.

Same sort of idea, people rushing about, but you can see their reflections in shop/car windows, mirrors, and even drinking glasses, and the reflections are those of pigs.

Don't know if this particular little snippit would work outside England, but imagine a guy in a pub, he starts to take a good healthy swig of his pint.

The camera looks at the bottom of the glass (from the inside) and the reflection at the bottom of the glass in a pigs face drinking the beer from the glass

For the butchers, you could have a board room for instance.

Very clean, very tidy.

At the head of the table is a man making a presentation to all the other buisnessmen sitting around the table.

The man standing is wearing an impossibly smart blue double brested suit.

On the wall of the boardroom there is a mirror, and the reflection of the boardroom is shown as a very dark room, with chains hanging from the ceiling.

it's a frightening room from a nightmare.

The highly polished mahogany table is substituted to a rough thick, basic but functional work table.

Around this table, the men in buisness suits are transformed to fat, scary, dirty looking men in blood caked aprons.

As the speaker says something they approve of, the butchers show appreciation by hamering the table with the handles of their long knives.

As the camera pans round back into the "real world" the buisnessmen are shown sitting in their smart suits polietly aplauding.




If the people ain't gonna get the metophore, make it easy for them

[mszee]

Originally Posted by needmoremeat

The song reminds me of Animal Farm, which is weird I know because the pigs aren't the ones doing the ruling. Unless of course King is meant like it is in England where he has no proper power and just greets foreign diplomats, opens hospitals etc and waves and so on while the pigs are the government doing the ruling........
But I know that's not what it means!







AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHHH!

Interesting take...you're not THAT FAR OFF...the song does have something of George Orwell in it...hmmm....

[mszee]

Originally Posted by THE FLYING MOUSE

If you don't think, you'll never find your own meaning to songs.


Back yo the vid, i've just been having thoughts on the matter.


First idea was that it would show a busy city.

Rush hour.

People rushing round the streets.

Then, to tie the image to the metophore, the crowd of people could turn into a crowd of pigs for a second, then change back into people.


Then I had a second idea, that I MUCH prefare.

Same sort of idea, people rushing about, but you can see their reflections in shop/car windows, mirrors, and even drinking glasses, and the reflections are those of pigs.

Don't know if this particular little snippit would work outside England, but imagine a guy in a pub, he starts to take a good healthy swig of his pint.

The camera looks at the bottom of the glass (from the inside) and the reflection at the bottom of the glass in a pigs face drinking the beer from the glass

For the butchers, you could have a board room for instance.

Very clean, very tidy.

At the head of the table is a man making a presentation to all the other buisnessmen sitting around the table.

The man standing is wearing an impossibly smart blue double brested suit.

On the wall of the boardroom there is a mirror, and the reflection of the boardroom is shown as a very dark room, with chains hanging from the ceiling.

it's a frightening room from a nightmare.

The highly polished mahogany table is substituted to a rough thick, basic but functional work table.

Around this table, the men in buisness suits are transformed to fat, scary, dirty looking men in blood caked aprons.

As the speaker says something they approve of, the butchers show appreciation by hamering the table with the handles of their long knives.

As the camera pans round back into the "real world" the buisnessmen are shown sitting in their smart suits polietly aplauding.




If the people ain't gonna get the metophore, make it easy for them

And the Oscar for the best screenplay goes to...

No, seriously...this is VERY good...LOVE it...

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by needmoremeat

The song reminds me of Animal Farm, which is weird I know because the pigs aren't the ones doing the ruling. Unless of course King is meant like it is in England where he has no proper power and just greets foreign diplomats, opens hospitals etc and waves and so on while the pigs are the government doing the ruling........
But I know that's not what it means!







AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHHH!

The comarisons to Animal Farm (we're talking George Orwell people, careful where you take this convo ) are obvious.

The mere mention of "pigs" is enough to bring the book to mind, even though in the song the pigs are actually the persecuted and not the rulers.

The song still has EXACTLY the same meaning though.

The few control the many, and the many will allow them to do so.

Only the identity of who is ruling is different.

[RadioMaster]

that was my thought too (the Orwell thing). I see also a little similarity too HG Wells´ time machine, forgot the names of the groups but, where these underworld people are living from slaughtering the ones above them.


As for the fact that I still dont get it:
It´s not the metaphore I dont get it are single lines of the song that dont fit in the metaphoric background IMO.
Havent got one in my mind right now, have to listen to the song again.

[needmoremeat]

Originally Posted by mszee

Interesting take...you're not THAT FAR OFF...the song does have something of George Orwell in it...hmmm....

There was a movie made of Animal Farm a schoolfriend told me about a while ago, all star cast voicing, Kelsey Grammer as Snowball etc.
http://www.us.imdb.com/title/tt0204824/
I later found it in The Works shop for £1.50 or something, and in it is a scene where the animals are singing in homage to Napoleon, it's sort of like when you see pictures of China or North Korea in the news with all the marching soldiers passing underneath their leader. It just puts me in mind of
Can't you hear the choir now?
Listen to the animals (anthems we) sing.
It's literal in that way that the animals are singing, yet it seems to invite both admiration yet scorn on the whole scene, poignance even. They're singing for us because we're great. But you shouldn't be singing for them, they're not great! My goodness, this is hard to explain! If I can find a more coherent way of expressing it, I'll post again!

On a simpler note
Can't you hear the slaughterhouse bells
makes me think of the slaughterhouse bells ringing for poor Boxer.

I want to read Animal Farm again now!

[RadioMaster]

the more I think about it the more I like the idea of an inspiration by Animal Farm.
All in all it´s the same essence, the same moral, the same vision that speaks out of both, the song and the book/film.

[needmoremeat]

So...
Is this our first song from Jim with a political underlining?
I know it's from a musical, so a side has to be taken and the story looked at from their POV regardless of political inclinations, but...does anyone see what I mean?

[mszee]

Originally Posted by needmoremeat

So...
Is this our first song from Jim with a political underlining?
I know it's from a musical, so a side has to be taken and the story looked at from their POV regardless of political inclinations, but...does anyone see what I mean?

Batman is a comic with a lot of political undercurrents/story lines...most of them DARK...can't ignore them.

[Pudding]

Originally Posted by THE FLYING MOUSE

I disagree Pud.

I don't think the general public are so dumb they can't understand a simple metophore.

In fact, the song would be completly LOST using pics of pigs and butchers, because it would then TRULLY be a song about the butchering trade

You're entitled to disagree, but if the metophore of the song wouldn't be lost on the general public, why are there quite a few people here, who I assume know Meat Loaf and know Steinman, struggling to find a meaning of the song? Surely the general public can't be more in tune with Meat Loaf than Meat Loafs fans?

The vision I have for the video, will and has got lost in translation, which is understandable since it's very difficult to fully explain your thoughts on a forum. I'd only use Meat as a butcher and the piggies running around at the very end, to show that a butcher does indeed have the power over life and death. For the rest of the video I'd show humdrum people doing humdrum things in an humdrum existance in various scenarios, to show people do do as they're told and who's lifes are truly meaningless, as it says in the lyrics.

Pud