122. Stand In The Storm

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Adje

All I wanted to point out is that changing or removing a part for your own enjoyment does not mean someone is being ignorant

As I think I am the person who introduced the word "ignorance" in this thread I will point out I used it in it's pure form .. ie "without knowledge", and not to imply "wilfully stupid" as it is so often used by people. A position of ignorance is not a "bad" place to be. We're born that way, and we continue to have ignorance about different things most of our lives .. the trick is to explore and gain knowledge and experience, and keep eliminating an area of ignorance and moving on to the next one. It's actually the best position from which to learn if you are prepared to explore and experience without prejudice .. (read Reg Revans' work on Action Learning ) Keeps you learning, keeps you developing, keeps you young .. and imo is part of what keeps Meat so years-defyingly young in heart, mind and spirit

I admitted to having made a judgement on rap from a position of ignorance .. ie knowing little about the genre and judging it on what I had heard crashing out of open windows of houses and cars. Meat has shown me that it is a genre that can be presented to me in a way I can appreciate it. I may not like all rap .. but I don't like all rock'n'roll either, nor all classical music. As David has said, we can usually find something to appreciate in all genres if we are open minded and find something that we can enjoy.

As Warrio said:
Its their story not ours. You dont buy a book you really like and rip out a chapter you hate. you suffer though the chapter you hate to get a good understanding of the story you love.

In general terms I'd go along with that, save to say I tend to work through a chapter that I find is expressed in a way I don't like, and often find that in the context of the story I am enjoying it begins to make sense Such was he case with SITS and MMW .. and I'm very glad I did, because it has given me something, and I have learned that there can be a place for rap for me, and it can enhance something over all.

Caryl

[Kathy]

9

see "All of Me" for explanation

[chairboys]

Originally Posted by CarylB

We're born that way, and we continue to have ignorance about different things most of our lives .. the trick is to explore and gain knowledge and experience, and keep eliminating an area of ignorance and moving on to the next one.

I've eliminated all areas, thanks.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by chairboys

I've eliminated all areas, thanks.

You are left with nothing to learn about anything? Time to join the heavenly chorus!

[ninja]

Originally Posted by chairboys

I've eliminated all areas, thanks.

no one can do that ...

[PanicLord]

Originally Posted by Dave

I wish I could find myself to be close minded enough to make the blanket statement that I simply do not like an entire genre of any form of art. I simply cannot do it. My intellect and thirst for knowledge always has me on the prowl for new and refreshing sounds for my auditory palate to savor. I have found amazing gems in rock, country, rap, and even in the world of electronica and pretty much everything in between - and yes...there is a lot of junk out there too all across the board and across the musical genre universe.

Drum N Bass, House, Garage, Urban, RNB, Acid, Daniel O Donnell - all genres I have yet to find anything I like in, so right now I would say I don't like those forms of music. However, I also am always listening to new stuff, and have a wide and varied taste in music, so am happy to be proven wrong. I don't think it's closed-minded if you have tried it and found it not to your taste - only if you refuse to try it in the first place!

Originally Posted by Dave

There are two rap segments on this album, which serve to continue the message of the music. Why keep a narrow focus on one actor to convey the importance of the content of this album when you can blossom this into an ensemble piece to more fully explore the themes of this piece. To make a comment like "I don't like the rap bits" is about as ignorant as saying "I like that photograph except the mountain in the background" the mountain and the rap are both parts of the piece.

I would agree both comments are equivalent but I don't understand how either comment is ignorant?

It's an opinion formed after sampling the artwork... are you saying you have to either like the whole piece or not like it all? That makes much less sense to me!

Originally Posted by Dave

I will just #SMH at individuals who are close minded in regard to artistic appreciation. To say your auditory palate does not appreciate the flavors of the music is one thing, but to say it should not be there...that is a horse of a different color.

I don't say Meat shouldn't have included it in the first place - I have listened to the song and found it overall not to my taste, and I especially dislike "the rap bit". It is entirely possible I would like the song more if that bit wasn't there or was some other style of music, but I haven't jumped to that conclusion from a position of ignorance, nor do I proclaim that it should never have been allowed in the first place.

Open your mind and accept the possibility that no only do others have different opinions to yours, they are also quite entitled to arrive at them in a different fashion.

[Elijah's way]

For the record I don't hate any genre of music. I do hate this song all together not just one part or two parts of it. IMO even if it is a Meat Loaf song it's a 0/10 from me and that's not gonna change. Have a nice day

[JennaG]

Originally Posted by PanicLord

Drum N Bass, House, Garage, Urban, RNB, Acid, Daniel O Donnell - all genres I have yet to find anything I like in, so right now I would say I don't like those forms of music. However, I also am always listening to new stuff, and have a wide and varied taste in music, so am happy to be proven wrong. I don't think it's closed-minded if you have tried it and found it not to your taste - only if you refuse to try it in the first place!

I agree. I'll listen to any genre of music with an open mind but there has been certain genres that I've yet to find anything I like. I don't think that's ignorant, that's just having an opinion. Is it also ignorant to dislike Meat's more modern albums? I don't think it is, it's just individual preferences.

Originally Posted by PanicLord

I would agree both comments are equivalent but I don't understand how either comment is ignorant?

It's an opinion formed after sampling the artwork... are you saying you have to either like the whole piece or not like it all? That makes much less sense to me!

I've said I don't particularly like Trace Adkins' vocal on the UK/US version of Stand In The Storm but it doesn't mean that I dislike that version of the song. I actually love the rest of the changes that were made to the song. I always listen to the whole song as that verse forms part of the song, I just don't get the same enjoyment from listening to it as I do the rest of the song.

[The Flying Mouse]

Dave, we are just not agreeing at all on the subject of rap on the album
I'm picking on you again in this thread because of a point in your post I want to reply too

Originally Posted by Dave

I wish I could find myself to be close minded enough to make the blanket statement that I simply do not like an entire genre of any form of art. I simply cannot do it. My intellect and thirst for knowledge always has me on the prowl for new and refreshing sounds for my auditory palate to savor.

I got pissed and learned to love Do It.
Is that good enough?
Have I served my time in hell?

Originally Posted by Dave

There are two rap segments on this album, which serve to continue the message of the music. Why keep a narrow focus on one actor to convey the importance of the content of this album when you can blossom this into an ensemble piece to more fully explore the themes of this piece.

Well, for one, because it's a Meat Loaf album
Yes, Meat has Patti and the rest of the band, and uses their considerable talents to great effect, but he is the voice of the piece because it's his work.
The other two guys put in great performances, but Meat could have handled it alone.
But as I like their performances, i'm happy that they are there.

The song was done for CA, and it is what it is, but apart from that I don't think Meat needs any help singing on his own records

Originally Posted by Dave

To make a comment like "I don't like the rap bits" is about as ignorant as saying "I like that photograph except the mountain in the background" the mountain and the rap are both parts of the piece.

OK, this is the piece that made me want to respond.
This is completly untrue.
I have favourite bits of many songs.
One that springs out right away is I'll Kill You If You Don''t Come Back. THe last half of that song is so magical and emotional it can bring a tear to my eye with great ease. Same can be said for For Crying Out Loud.

Single sentences and sometimes even single notes can be so amazing that I could happilly play them over and over again (and indeed, have done just that).

So if it's possible to love parts of some songs, why is it impossible to hate other parts of songs?

That a certain verse, sentence, note, whatever, can bring such strong emotion, is it not possible that some of those emotions are not positive ones?

Because if we did not have favourite moments and didn't dislike other things, then everything would sound the same, and that's a terrible thought.


To say that you either love or hate the whole painting is an absoloute, and only the sith deal in absoloutes (little bit of Star Wars geek leaking out there )

So, should I hate the whole song then?
Or is it better to at least love what you love (because I think this is a kick ass song apart from the rap) and hate what you don't.

Put it this way, if Whistler had painted a picture of his mum and in the corner he had painted a mooning leprechaun, would it be best to appreciate the rest of the picture, or would you throw the whole thing on the fire as junk?

Likewise, should I ignore the rap and appreciate how good the rest of the song is, or should I consider the song, or even the whole album ruined because there is something there I don't care for?

Anyway, about the song, the start puts me in mind of Dancing In THe Dark or Mercury Blues.
It kicks ass.

The rap, again, every time it comes to that part my heart sinks and I think "oh f*ck" and I have to either turn the volume off for a while (like right now for instance) or flick onto the next track.

My score is 7.5 (you know what happened to the other 25% )

[melon]

Well, it took so long I thought I genuinely didn't like the T.A version, but its grown a little, I can listen to it more now, and sing along with it. There's still something about it I don't quite like and I still prefer the JR version but I don't mind the new one either. On the whole I actually really love the song.

Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Forum Runner

[ShelbyLee]

I like the energy of this song and I think it will be fantastic on the new tour. I was really impressed with the live clips I have seen.

[White of High]

Average: 6.53 (98/15)