Please read - Youtube vid comments

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by CarylB

Monstro suggested that one way forward might be to not post bootlegs in the show review threads. That seems to me a good compromise. Meat is likely to read those threads. He has not given permission for people to privately record at his shows (most tickets actually prohibit it), and if he does not like this being done he, as the artist, is perfectly entitled to have that view. If it will irritate, upset or anger him to see a poor bootleg being used as a basis to deliver a negative judgement on his performance, why should we, as people who profess to be his fans, want to do this on a forum dedicated to him, on those threads we can be pretty sure he will read .. let alone see our right to do it as some principle we need to fight for?

This seems like a terrible "compromise" to me. And it is not really a compromise in my opinion, just censorship/ignorance.

I don't own this site so the owners can do all they like and favour whatever opinions are on here and not listen to me and they can ban YT videos from here all they want. I suspect many fans would still simply Google them and forget about MLUKFC in the long run. In my opinion it is not going to gain any fans, perhaps clamped down on arguments if that is favourable. Meat might come back if that is the objective but as a consequence I think some more objective fans will leave/stay away.

There are worse things in life so whatever is the way forward it is fine by me.

[Sebastian.]

Originally Posted by Wario

This thread is hilarious to me too

My reaction to it...

[AndrewG]

[Wario]

Originally Posted by TheDoode

If all you are presented with is a clip, and you want to discuss that clip, then you have to take THAT CLIP for what it is. If someone posts a clip for discussion, then it makes sense to discuss what's there, rather than what isn't. I don't think that people are looking to pull a performance to pieces and analyze every little part of every note, they're just commenting on whether, on the whole, it was 'on' or not. And for the majority of clips on youtube, you CAN tell whether or not a performance is vocally 'on'. This applies to all bands, not just Meat Loaf.

As for the other issue: I think that some users are feeling oppressed because it's almost like they're being 'banned' by others from giving their own opinions on a performance or a clip, even if those opinions are respectful (which they should all be, and for the most part, are). It feels sometimes like it's almost a case of 'agree with this or get ten thousand posts telling you you're wrong, calling you ridiculous, and hitting the dislike button on your posts fifty times'. Regardless of how you phrase it, it could be seen as almost passive-aggressive. I get that this is a fan page, upsetting other people is the last thing I want to do - like most of the others here, but what kind of a discussion forum would it be if people were prohibited from giving their own opinions?

As for not reading the entire thread... I have, and it's the same argument from the first few pages, going on and on again.

truth. everyones a fan here. i hate the personally insulting "you claim to be a fan" remarks. just shut up and lock this thread please. so much waste. i see 8 new posts and am saddened its all on this thread.
we made a big deal out of bread crumbs.

[AndrewG]

I think a separate thread should be started in which we can argue whether or not the YouTube video opinions thread should be closed.

[Paul Richardson]

Originally Posted by CarylB

I don't believe to polarise people like this helps, nor is it really accurate ... phrases like "even remotely critical" just do not help imo.

It was only an attempt to sum up (in 50 words or less) the interminable pages and pages of argument in this thread. IMO succinctness is to be admired - maybe you should try it sometime

[Mr. Happy]

Originally Posted by Paul Richardson

To be fair I think he was just exasperated by people arguing the same point backwards and forwards.

Exactly this, thank you. And to be even more fair, I didn't ignore it completely. I skimmed over it and read the odd post here and there Do you people not realise that you constantly bitch about the same damn thing time and time again? It's ridiculous, and it's so predictable that it's depressing.

Originally Posted by TheDoode

As for not reading the entire thread... I have, and it's the same argument from the first few pages, going on and on again.

Colour me surprised.

Again, sorry for dragging this away from the main discussion. Hate me if you want, I don't really care. It was nothing personal against you, BostonAngel, and if you feel I've been unfair in my remarks then I'm genuinely sorry. I'll be leaving now

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Paul Richardson

It was only an attempt to sum up (in 50 words or less) the interminable pages and pages of argument in this thread. IMO succinctness is to be admired - maybe you should try it sometime

Thank you but no, because IMO such succinctness can result in generalised or (as in this case) polarised statements which I think make things worse in these debates. Speed reading or even ignoring my posts might help. Perhaps you could try that sometime

[GDW]

That was short and sweet.

[AndrewG]

Lol @ even disliking little jokes made here. Pathetic, honestly. Perhaps R. could implement an automatic dislike functionality where my and several fellow forum members' posts are automatically disliked by certain people. Saves button clicks and bandwidth in the long run.

[LuuuuvMeat]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Lol @ even disliking little jokes made here. Pathetic, honestly. Perhaps R. could implement an automatic dislike functionality where my and several fellow forum members' posts are automatically disliked by certain people. Saves button clicks and bandwidth in the long run.

LOL! I was trying to make a little joke with my previous post but of course the people who "disliked" it confirmed my point. So silly.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by LuuuuvMeat

LOL! I was trying to make a little joke with my previous post but of course the people who "disliked" it confirmed my point. So silly.

Maybe I am reading too much into the dislike functionality...

Not to go completely off topic but I kind of agree with you that the dislike function seems to be used to show disrespect towards certain forum members rather than that it is used to really dislike the content of specific posts. In this light several forum members advocating for more respect towards Meat Loaf when posting I find the use of it by those specific people a little bit hypocritical but anyway....

[LuuuuvMeat]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Maybe I am reading too much into the dislike functionality...

Not to go completely off topic but I kind of agree with you that the dislike function seems to be used to show disrespect towards certain forum members rather than that it is used to really dislike the content of specific posts. In this light several forum members advocating for more respect towards Meat Loaf when posting I find the use of it by those specific people a little bit hypocritical but anyway....

Absolutely. It is clear as day the dislike funtion is used by certain people to antagonize other people in the forum. There's a pattern. I'm still confused on why the like/dislike is here?

[stretch37]

Originally Posted by LuuuuvMeat

Absolutely. It is clear as day the dislike funtion is used by certain people to antagonize other people in the forum. There's a pattern. I'm still confused on why the like/dislike is here?

which is probably why it still doesn't exist on facebook....It can be used for the equivalent of trolling.

[LisaT]

It's no wonder Meat is staying away, is it? If I were him, having read all this lot, I would too! When I saw that he had been back here a couple of times, I was hoping that maybe he was considering joining us again. Can't see it happening now!

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by LuuuuvMeat

Absolutely. It is clear as day the dislike funtion is used by certain people to antagonize other people in the forum. There's a pattern. I'm still confused on why the like/dislike is here?

I'm reluctant to judge the reasons why people I do not know really well use the functions. I can only speak with any accuracy for my use of them, which is as I said on the thread when they were introduced. I see them as "Agree" and "Disagree" .. even though the words come with the software.

I use them in some threads when I agree with a post but have nothing to add, or to indicate I do not when I see no need to spell out my reasons which I may have already posted, or may probably known by most members. In this way I suppose I see it, for me, as nodding or shaking my head in a discussion.

If I saw a pattern against my posts which gave me concern I would address it with the person direct. If it gives me none, because it is what I expect, or I sense it might be to try and ruffle my feathers .. I simply take no account of it I choose not to be antagonised

Caryl

[LuuuuvMeat]

Originally Posted by CarylB

I'm reluctant to judge the reasons why people I do not know really well use the functions. I can only speak with any accuracy for my use of them, which is as I said on the thread when they were introduced. I see them as "Agree" and "Disagree" .. even though the words come with the software.

I use them in some threads when I agree with a post but have nothing to add, or to indicate I do not when I see no need to spell out my reasons which I may have already posted, or may probably known by most members. In this way I suppose I see it, for me, as nodding or shaking my head in a discussion.

If I saw a pattern against my posts which gave me concern I would address it with the person direct. If it gives me none, because it is what I expect, or I sense it might be to try and ruffle my feathers .. I simply take no account of it I choose not to be antagonised

Caryl

That is a great way of thinking and usage of the fuction but IMO it's clear others have not done that {a judgment.}

As for choosing not to be anatagonised I say kudos to you but unfortuntealy it still doesn't lessen the intention.

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Perhaps R. could implement an automatic dislike functionality where my and several fellow forum members' posts are automatically disliked by certain people. Saves button clicks and bandwidth in the long run.

That idea occurred to me, too, but actually I couldn't care less. Who can take such "dislikes" seriously? I had a look at the "Top 10 Billy Joel Songs" thread and guess what? One person "disliked" every post on it (except for one that was probably overlooked). Laughable.

[LuuuuvMeat]

Originally Posted by Sarge

That idea occurred to me, too, but actually I couldn't care less. Who can take such "dislikes" seriously? I had a look at the "Top 10 Billy Joel Songs" thread and guess what? One person "disliked" every post on it (except for one that was probably overlooked). Laughable.

I think stretch37 is correct when he said it's a form of trolling.

[Wario]

Originally Posted by LuuuuvMeat

I think stretch37 is correct when he said it's a form of trolling.

It is I think. No matter what I say or other people say it seems someone dislikes it. I dunno. its whatever. Ive gotten warned about saying stuff about it cause its insulting apparently, so im not gonna say anything else. Ill just let the dislike spam continue. be honored to get dislikes, I sure am.

As I see it there needs to be a leaderboard with the most amount of disliked posts by a user. Sarge, me, and Andrew would totally top it

PS. theres a reason theres no dislike button on facebook.

[BostonAngel]

Originally Posted by Sarge

That idea occurred to me, too, but actually I couldn't care less. Who can take such "dislikes" seriously? I had a look at the "Top 10 Billy Joel Songs" thread and guess what? One person "disliked" every post on it (except for one that was probably overlooked). Laughable.

I realize this is getting off topic from the original post, however since you keep bringing the topic up: IF you don't care if someone dislikes what you post, why do you keep bringing it up.
I truly have no clue if someone dislikes anything I say, I don't bother to check cause it truly doesn't matter to me. Not everyone is going agree with me so they can go ahead and dislike anything I post. I don't have a problem with it.
Maybe it has become time to revisit the use of the dislike button and come up with rules for it's appropriate use. Or you can ignore it.

[LuuuuvMeat]

oh the irony!

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by BostonAngel

since you keep bringing the topic up:

I don't "keep bringing the topic up". I replied to a post by AndrewG. Relax!

Originally Posted by LuuuuvMeat

oh the irony!

[R.]

Bottom line:

Post your Youtube vids, but don’t start bitching when they get horse kicked by a red pony. Post them on topic, that means no 20 year old footage in a thread dealing with a recent show, just deal with this particular show only. Comment on these vids as you like, but do so in a respectful manner. And keep these comments on topic, speculating about something else than the thread‘s topic may get your post removed. To make this perfectly clear, making conclusions about the quality or make of a soon to be released DVD in a concert review thread is definetly not on topic and it’s not an opinion either. Post your comment and be done with it. Don’t try to impose your opinion on fellow posters with repetitive similiar posts, that’s just rude and will most likely derail a thread. We will clean these threads as we see fit, should we have the impression that a thread has been derailed.

We cool?

[Sarge]

Thank you, R.