Dead Ringer

[Wario]

The movie seems to omit the dead ringer video. just noticed that.

and the ballad finale always gets left behind. no sign of Everything is Permitted

[Evil One]

Originally Posted by WarioLoaf

I think its something he loathes.

I can see why he'd loathe this movie. I can also see why he'd loathe the Wembley '82 show. However with the live footage in this film (from what is there) Meat seems on good form. The only reason I can think of that Meat may not like it is that he is at his fattest.

[Wario]

Originally Posted by Evil One

I can see why he'd loathe this movie. I can also see why he'd loathe the Wembley '82 show. However with the live footage in this film (from what is there) Meat seems on good form. The only reason I can think of that Meat may not like it is that he is at his fattest.

I woudln't say good form, hes in better form then the wembley '82 VHS.

its also funny that the quiet marvin character who never speaks a word has the singing voice of a toured out rocker at the end of the film. makes no sense, but at least it wasnt a mime to the studio track

[CarylB]

As I understand it this followed the podcast on The Projection Booth which was posted to start this thread by one of the site owners. They had approached Alan NIcholls as director of the movie, and asked for the interview with him with particular reference to this film that never got distribution. He sent them a copy of the film. Whether this was a copy of the original version which was shown at two Canadian film festivals, or a copy of the version Sonnenberg and Dellentash re-edited I have no idea.

CBS (now Sony/BMG) own the movie, and one assumes the world wide distribution rights in any media. Whether or not one likes their motives for not releasing it, it is their property and their right to not release it. Nicholls said in the interview that he had engaged in many legal attempts to secure its release, all of which had failed. I doubt Sony would see much revenue to be gained for its release now. It's a movie on the back of a runaway album success not untypical of its time, but wouldn't stand up well for release in 2011 imo, and selectively releasing it for the benefit of Meat's fans wouldn't generate the revenue which would interest them. So I dismiss any notion that Sony would have engineered this leak. I don't know whether Nicholls either engineered or approved the leak. It would seem to me a rather foolhardy strategy given his personal knowledge/experience of Sony's position, and the fallout which could ensue. I imagine their lawyers are reasonably exercised with that currently.

One thing I'm sure of is that Meat is far too astute to be involved in such a leak, particularly as the version Sony own is one he hated so much. As to suggestions as to why he hated this version, he made it clear that it was due to the re-editing which was done .. "widly disjointed and jumpy" were his words I think, had scenes inserted which made no sense, and that it was a huge exercise in self-indulgence by Sonnenberg and Dellentash. The original version got good reviews at the Toronto Film Festival, and despite Meat's concerns for the way the pair spent to excess and tried to manipulate him and Leslie, he thought some good videos came from it.

Caryl

[Evil One]

Originally Posted by CarylB

One thing I'm sure of is that Meat is far too astute to be involved in such a leak, particularly as the version Sony own is one he hated so much

I think it's simpler than that. Meat wouldn't be involved in leaking this because it's utter crap.

Originally Posted by CarylB

he thought some good videos came from it.

Yet the Dead Ringer video didn't feature in the film, and the Peel Out video was never released.

[Wario]

Originally Posted by Evil One

I think it's simpler than that. Meat wouldn't be involved in leaking this because it's utter crap.

Yet the Dead Ringer video didn't feature in the film, and the Peel Out video was never released.

nore was IKYIYDCB

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Evil One

Yet the Dead Ringer video didn't feature in the film, and the Peel Out video was never released.

I meant from the making of the film. Meat says quite clearly he made the Dead Ringer video with Cher as part of the film, and that video was released. As was More Than You Deserve. Why and at what stage Dead Ringer was dropped from the film we don't know.

I think you've made it clear what you think of the film. However, as you seem to keep finding ways to repeat it, I'll take the liberty of repeating that I think Meat is far too astute to have any involvement in a leak to force the release of a film he said was in bad shape after the additional editing and which could bring Sony's lawyers down on him in a case that could not be defended.

Caryl

[Evil One]

Originally Posted by CarylB

I think you've made it clear what you think of the film.

Have you seen it?

[GDW]

How many times do I have to tell you all? Gary B. released it!

[TheDoode]

Originally Posted by Evil One

Have you seen it?

We really, REALLY, need to get that "like" button installed.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Evil One

Have you seen it?

No; have you seen it in its entirety? Based on a clip which was put on line and on how Meat described the film I described it as a one made on the back of a runaway album success which I think is not untypical of its time. I've seen a few of those which I thought were pretty indifferent, but doubtless provided some innocent enjoyment for the fans of the performer. I have never suggested it's a good movie; hence my saying I doubted Sony would have seen any business reason for releasing it, and certainly not by the time that would have been possible. So no, I've not seen it it, but I think that's a reasoned view.

I've seen Spice World and Extreme Dating, both of which to me were pretty poor films, but I could enjoy watching Meat's role in them. If I watched Dead Ringer and thought it that it was bad, I'd probably say that without needing to use and repeat the word "shit" so frequently. I've seen Peel Out, and that alone would povide something positive to enjoy, as would all the songs.

Caryl

[Evil One]

Originally Posted by CarylB

have you seen it in its entirety?

Yes. I actually think it makes Spice World look good.

As a Meat fan the music videos and live footage are interesting, but the actual film that is woven around it is definitely not. While I'm glad that I've seen it I feel the myth surrounding it was actually more interesting than the film itself, if that makes sense?

There you go, not a shit in sight!

[Explicit Sinz]

Originally Posted by CarylB

If I watched Dead Ringer and thought it that it was bad, I'd probably say that without needing to use and repeat the word "shit" so frequently. I've seen Peel Out, and that alone would povide something positive to enjoy, as would all the songs.

Caryl

Yeah , we definitely need a "LIKE" button...

Anyway.. yes, I've seen the removed YouTube version (which I believe was the one that Meat Loaf disliked and the CBS re-release. ) For the time period, it rated right up there with the Dukes of Hazzard tv series ( ie; not GREAT ) but - it WAS a comedic, satirical interpretation, not a documentary. It did give us some nice footage for music videos that SHOULD be appreciated for individual content.

Even tho I did not care for the cinematic execution or the "artisitic liberty" that was taken with the material resulting in litigation, I am NOT going to sit here and compare MEAT LOAF or his efforts to ANY FORM of excrement...

Take it for the moments that you can enjoy... its worth sitting thru the moments that you can't !

[meatfanforlife]

i thought that it was actually pretty cool. not great by any stretch but still fun to watch

[AndyK]

I suspect (not having watched it as yet) that the hype surrounding the "holy grail" status that the film has had will outweigh the reality. I'd imagine that that would hold true regardless of it being the original edit or the recut.

Of course it'll be interesting to watch, but Id imagine it'll not be something that is rewatched that often in reality once the first viewing is done.

[duke knooby]

i missed it, apart from the 2 clips... ahwell

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Evil One

As a Meat fan the music videos and live footage are interesting, but the actual film that is woven around it is definitely not. While I'm glad that I've seen it I feel the myth surrounding it was actually more interesting than the film itself, if that makes sense?

There you go, not a shit in sight!

Yes that not only makes sense; in expressing your opinion it's reasonable, reasoned and fair comment

Meat's never suggested this was a great film, really deplored the second editing, and like Andy, I suspect its being locked away and not released has caused a level of curiosiy, even "need" to see it/own it that is almost bound to result in disappontment in some .. and I guess give those who like to find flaws and failings a golden opportunity to deplore it ..

Had it been released at the time I suspect it would have been enjoyed by a lot of people because it would have met expectations then of it's genre; Explicit Sinz says much of it rates well against Dukes of Hazzard. Not a show I enjoyed, but many, many did. Perhaps watching it not with the eyes of our level of expectations in 2011, but with the arguably less demanding ones that were used in the 80s, one would see the satirical take she refers to. As it is the musical footage should surely be something to enjoy, and any for whom it did become a kind of holy grail .. they've had their objective met. If it's good thought-provoking writing, excellent performance, skilled filming they're after, I recommend Focus

Caryl

[TheDoode]

Originally Posted by duke knooby

i missed it, apart from the 2 clips... ahwell

Imagine the first Muppet Movie ... without any of the good bits Well, apart from the music videos and music. So, yeah, pretty much like the first Muppet Movie.

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by AndyK

I suspect (not having watched it as yet) that the hype surrounding the "holy grail" status that the film has had will outweigh the reality. I'd imagine that that would hold true regardless of it being the original edit or the recut.

Of course it'll be interesting to watch, but Id imagine it'll not be something that is rewatched that often in reality once the first viewing is done.

I agree.
The film has been lost for 30 years, and I don't see how anything could live up to the anticipation that has had to build up, but what the hell, i'm personally going to enjoy the excitment for as long as I can before the inevitable dissapointment

I loved the bootleg release of the Peel Out vid, and I hope that there will be other such enjoyable moments in the rest of the film

[Wario]

Originally Posted by The Flying Mouse

I loved the bootleg release of the Peel Out vid, and I hope that there will be other such enjoyable moments in the rest of the film

there are plenty enjoyable moments. notice I say enjoyable, not oscar worthy lol.

One character, the news guy, is oh so annoying.

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by CarylB

CBS (now Sony/BMG) own the movie, and one assumes the world wide distribution rights in any media. Whether or not one likes their motives for not releasing it, it is their property and their right to not release it. Nicholls said in the interview that he had engaged in many legal attempts to secure its release, all of which had failed. I doubt Sony would see much revenue to be gained for its release now. It's a movie on the back of a runaway album success not untypical of its time, but wouldn't stand up well for release in 2011 imo, and selectively releasing it for the benefit of Meat's fans wouldn't generate the revenue which would interest them. So I dismiss any notion that Sony would have engineered this leak. I don't know whether Nicholls either engineered or approved the leak. It would seem to me a rather foolhardy strategy given his personal knowledge/experience of Sony's position, and the fallout which could ensue. I imagine their lawyers are reasonably exercised with that currently.

Again, that's the rub.
If Sony do not believe the film will create enough revenue to be of interest (and I suspect they are right), and have no plans to ever release the film commercially, who the hell does it hurt to let the fans share and experience this film?

They will never gain anything leaving the film in a can.
They will never gain anything by letting the fans see the movie by sharing it online.

What in gods name can they lose?

How many people here have now illegally watched the Peel Out video?
Did Sony's share prices take a dive because we saw it?

Just goes to show that there is a big difference between legality and common sense.

[AndyK]

The problem is one of simple mathematics though... releasing the film, even to DVD, has an overhead cost and if the sales don't cover the overheads then its not a viable move to make as a business. End of story.

[Paul Richardson]

Originally Posted by Evil One

Have you seen it?

I saw the first part on last Friday morning, but had to go to work. I'd anticipated seeing the rest on Friday evening before going out, but it had been taken down by then - bollocks - a thirty year wait spoiled by having to work for a living !

What I saw was, dare I say it, fairly shit, but it has a novelty factor as this is the film / album which was to confirm Meat's superstar status, just it never quite worked out that way...

...but if Dead Ringer was a success like BOOH then there would be no need for BOOH2 so its not all bad...

[Adje]

Sometimes google can be your best friend.

Anyway despite the fact that it's not that good I'm happy being able to see it. I disagree with Wario that it's the kind of bad that makes it funny. But it's interesting stuff though :)

[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by AndyK

The problem is one of simple mathematics though... releasing the film, even to DVD, has an overhead cost and if the sales don't cover the overheads then its not a viable move to make as a business. End of story.

I agree.
It's not going to make money.
So why not let the fans have it to share online?
They have quite literaly absoloutley nothing to lose.