Ratings of the songs

[Tim]

How in the hell is it possible that people rate songs in such a strange way. How is it possible that the latest album got all 10/10??? Is this because it has just been released???

Tought that this rating thing was a way of objectivity, realistic listening to the songs, comparing the songs/albums, etc.

This ain't not fair at all. I mean... what is this going to. Don't think this forum part was just for fooling around, joking etc.

As a teacher i can say, a 10 is hard to get. I am a teacher in the arts... so then you will know, music is also an art. In that way i am able to say this. Offcourse you can give a song a 10, but all the songs??? Have you listened to the albums only once???

Please just be honest... don't do it for the ranklist.

The Butcher.

[Michel]

I have nothing more to say, I agree.

[A Slice Of English]

I think everyone rates music differently and yes, as Meat fans you would expect his songs to have fairly high ratings in a fan forum.

However, this is not some scientific test, this is a choice based on how you felt about the song, what it does for you as a fan and whether it appeals to you. If a person likes the song enough to give it a 10/10, that is their opinion and no one has the right to dispute it.

If you don't like it, make your post rating the song and have done with it. There's no need to dispute other peoples opinions.

[mariella]

Originally Posted by A Slice Of English

I think everyone rates music differently and yes, as Meat fans you would expect his songs to have fairly high ratings in a fan forum.

However, this is not some scientific test, this is a choice based on how you felt about the song, what it does for you as a fan and whether it appeals to you. If a person likes the song enough to give it a 10/10, that is their opinion and no one has the right to dispute it.

If you don't like it, make your post rating the song and have done with it. There's no need to dispute other peoples opinions.

I agree with this...and CHSIB did not get ALL 10/10
Some people just LOVE most of those songs and I am one of them...DID listen to the album 'more than once'

Love,

Mariella

[Michel]

Most people gave the songs 10/10. I can't understand how they can give FCOL a 10/10 and YRIWW a 10/10

[mariella]

This may convince some people you do have 'a point'. It is not working in my case.
Gave YRIWW a *bump*.
So one person has this opinion/feeling about the song (great!...wish I could share it) or have I missed a YRIWW-thread where more people rated the song 10/10?

Again feelings/ratings are personal and because of that imho, ALWAYS right. Even though, we are not able to 'follow' them.
We are are different individuals and it doesn't come as a surprise to me, we feel different about every song

This poster could have a very strong feeling about this song...

GDTY,

Mariella

[Tim]

This is very confusing.... YRIWW???YWRAIWW???? KPG??? PTT?? TPG???UK????

Okay.. .but still, you can't give all songs a 10 out of 10. That is impossible... how is your opinion about the other songs then. It just makes no sence at all.

Just some stupid geeks fooling around here, just hopeing that CHSIB comes on the first place... which is a thing that never can and never must happen cause the album has just to much dissappointing songs on it.

Compare them to the other albums... the you will see.

The Butcher.

[Michel]

Originally Posted by mariella

This may convince some people you do have 'a point'. It is not working in my case.
Gave YRIWW a *bump*.
So one person has this opinion/feeling about the song (great!...wish I could share it) or have I missed a YRIWW-thread where more people rated the song 10/10?

Maybe a wrong example, but I think you know what I mean.

[rockfenris2005]

Look - the simple fact is: CHSIB is the best Meat Loaf album since BAT 1 & BAT 2. All the other ones are crap - or bordering on crap (except DEAD RINGER and BAD ATTITUDE, of course*).

[CarylB]

Tim wrote:

How in the hell is it possible that people rate songs in such a strange way. How is it possible that the latest album got all 10/10??? Is this because it has just been released???

Tought that this rating thing was a way of objectivity, realistic listening to the songs, comparing the songs/albums, etc.

This ain't not fair at all. I mean... what is this going to. Don't think this forum part was just for fooling around, joking etc.

As a teacher i can say, a 10 is hard to get. I am a teacher in the arts... so then you will know, music is also an art. In that way i am able to say this. Offcourse you can give a song a 10, but all the songs??? Have you listened to the albums only once???

Please just be honest... don't do it for the ranklist.

The thing is Tim we aren't a group of professional international judges working to some agreed set of complex benchmarks carefully defined to try and make sure we are all operating to an identical set of constructs .. we're, mostly, a bunch of Meat Loaf fans giving our reaction to the tracks on an album. Some will make judgements about the lyrics, some the music, some Meat's vocals, some by comparing it to other tracks on other albums, some by a mix of any/all of these .. and some by how they feel when they hear a track and/or whether it "calls" to them in some special way.

If we were sitting on a panel charged with the task of awarding prizes objectively, "realistic listening" and comparison would arguably be more important .. and one only has to see the results of some of some awards listings to know how rarely that is achieved even then .. try the Oscars for eg .. or Greatest Composers of the Millenium .. where one would have been forgiven for thinking that musical composition didn't start until the seventies :)

Meat, for eg, I suspect rated the songs on CHSIB on some internal scale he has of what he tries to achieve in the recording. Some will judge each against what they consider to be his "best" so far (and even that is a personal judgement). I don't compare .. I tend to say "Does it work for me? How far?" .. and if it does work 100% then I'd give it 10. If you were to ask me which song I like best that would be different .. but even then I'd probably say I can't choose one. It depends on how I'm feeling .. and also on which one I'm listening to at the time :) I'd agree with Meat and many others that FCOL is probably one of the best love songs ever written. But I don't, and don't want to compare every song Meat records against this. Now that's a personal choice .. if others do that's theirs.

This new album works perfectly for me. I have said elsewhere that it reflects the fact that we are 26 years on from BOOH. True many Steinman songs are timeless, but many are written from a hilltop which best describes youthful angst. This album is one recorded by a man in the rich autumn of his life, the songs reflect that imo, and being myself in that same rich autumn as Meat they resonate with me in a very special way. I can't fault DIST or CHSIB. I love the poignancy of MOS. Love You Out Loud calls to me in a very special way, for I have been that soldier! BOY captures perfectly for me that wonderful feeling of being in love .. it does it simply but nonetheless powerfully for me. Forever Young may not be the greatest song ever written .. although I'd argue it's a beautiful song, but to hear Meat sing it brings the tears to my eyes and makes the hairs stand up on my arms .. so how could I not rate it high? And that's what this is about imo .. we rate the tracks and the album in a very personal way, but that doesn't mean we are fooling around or that our view is without integrity.

On every album Meat has released there are tracks that I love. I value every one of them. I've listened to CHSIB many, many times. For me .. and that's the only perspective I can speak from, it IS a 10/10 album, and as good as anything Meat has ever recorded. BOOH was a 10/10 debut album .. CHSIB is a 10/10 autumn album; sweet, rich and mature, in 2003 it works for me 100% :) That's personal, that's fair and that's honest.

[Michel]

Caryl, you said it very well, you've almost convinced me.

But there is a problem. When we started with the song, the people gave very objective grades and personally I think that's the best way. With the new album many people gave on songs from that album 10/10, and that's not objective but subjective. So al the other albums are rated objective, and the new one subjective, so you get a wrong standing.

[Michel]

Originally Posted by rockfenris2005

Look - the simple fact is: CHSIB is the best Meat Loaf album since BAT 1 & BAT 2. All the other ones are crap - or bordering on crap (except DEAD RINGER and BAD ATTITUDE, of course*).

This isn't a fact, this is your opinion. I think a few songs on this new album are crap. That why I think that the other albums (except MATLAF and BBIS) are better.

[CarylB]

Caryl, you said it very well, you've almost convinced me.

Praise indeed MIchel .. thankQ :)

But there is a problem. When we started with the song, the people gave very objective grades and personally I think that's the best way. With the new album many people gave on songs from that album 10/10, and that's not objective but subjective. So al the other albums are rated objective, and the new one subjective, so you get a wrong standing.

I honestly don't know on what basis people rated the songs when it started .. whenever that was .. but whilst I'm sure each thought he or she was being very objective, I still suspect they used a set of personal yardsticks .. each believing themselves to be as objective as possible, but each giving a view based on their unique hilltop. I know that it's very difficult to get any group of people to "rate" anything with complete consistency .. I've spent years designing performance management and appraisal systems and to get any two people to rate with complete and objective consistency is a huge challenge. Move from that into the arena of music appreciation which is so highly idiosyncratic, so personal, and I think you're probably scuppered before you start :) We're fans rather than professors of music .. we'll each have a view that is just our bit of the elephant .. neither right nor wrong .. but it's ours, based on how we experience the song.

[PanicLord]

CarylB - your little fingers must be red raw with all that typing!!!

But you are darn right in what you say. Everybody will view every song differently.

I'll describe the first time I played the CHISB album...

1. CHSIB - The song lifted my spirits and amazed me. I actually checked the sleeve to see if Jim had managed to sneak a song on - NOT because I think that only Jim writes good Meaty songs - but because this was the first time I had heard such a powerful emotional song by a non-Steinman writer.

2. DIST - First few lines and I thought, that's a pity, a slow one, but I stuck with it and I was blown away. This is an incredible song, and the ending really sent shivers down my side. My 2nd favourite Meaty song EVER (#1 is IGLHFBOU).

3. WITE - First impressions? Too "boyband". I still think the production is not Meaty enough, but I like the singing and lyrics.

4. LYOL - Loved it from the word go - slightly unusual, and quite in your face. Didn't send shivers down my spine like DIST did, but not too far behind.

5. MOS - Fantastic! When I got to this, it really excited me, especially to hear Pearl's amazing duet at the end. Again, my spine was a-shivering.

6. T - I think this is a great song, and quite funny, and nicely different to most Meat songs. Great stuff, loadsa people who don't normally like Meat like this, and I find it lifts my spirits and cheers me up.

7. TMD - I actually find this one a little uninspired, apart from the fantastic spoken part in the middle. It is not BAD (like "you never can be too sure about the girl"), and it's quite a nice tune. Just doesn't really do anything for me. Anyone could have sung this - it lacks "Meat" imho.

8. YWIWR - One word - Boyband. Beautiful lyrics and amazing vocals by Meat. But I think it's the production that makes it boybandy.

9. BOYband. See 8.

10. DI - Love this song too. Really blew me away. I don't normally like this kind of music, but Meat does it like the true pro that he is. Stunning and exciting, I had to listen to it a few times so that I could work out what was going on :)

11. FY - Boyband. But quite a moving song nonetheless.

12. MB - Love it! Great fun!



Sorry for the long essay.

I am positive that a lot of people will have different opinions about the songs to those above, and I always think it is interesting to see exactly what makes people feel the way they do about the songs. Overall, as an album, I think it is excellent, an outstanding follow up to WTTN. Just the production of one or two of the songs disappoints me slightly.

I still think it is massively underrated by the record company, and deserves to do much better than it has so far. I also think that Meat Loaf is singing easily as well as he EVER has before, if not far better!!!

[Ageing Bat]

Of course we all have our own opinions, that's what makes us individual - wouldn't life be boring if we were all the same?!

Personally I have to listen to a new album for several months to really appreciate the music. Bat 2 grew on me, as is CHSIB - I'm still not sure of some of the tracks. My original favourite was Man of Steel and Forever Young, although having been present at the 17th November concert, Testify was the only song that evening that really got to me, so I listened again an now really enjoy the mixture of rock with a hint of gospel.

I've never been too keen on Paradise from Bat 1, although even now I still can't put my finger on why.

It's all down to personal preferences and taste.

[Bren]

Originally Posted by Michel

Most people gave the songs 10/10. I can't understand how they can give FCOL a 10/10 and YRIWW a 10/10

to digress slightly...
Have to agree with you there.....for crying out loud is a powerful emotional song, my favourite so i would give it a10/10
You're right i was wrong.....for me lacks something musically,it never quite lives up to expectations...so i would rate it much lower.

I understand the point Tim and Michel are making....the way people are rating things has changed greatly......even i see that and i've been a member here for a much shorter time than Tim has......
If everyone just rates everything as10/10 ...it makesthis part of the forum meaningless.......
It was a serious part of the forum where you could have proper discussions about rthe songs...what you liked about this, disliked about that.....this version was great because...etc
and rating each song on it's individual merits, gave you a list , of what were the top songs, people's all time favourites......backed up by serious discussion
Now ..if people do a blanket vote across the board of 10/10 for every song(even IFthey genuinely feel, everysong merits a 10/10) it makes a mockery of what was established here.

just my opinion
Bren

[gerard359]

To be honest I dont understand what exactly you are all arguing about. Surely you shouldn't rate the song on how you think it ranks to other songs, you should rank them on how they effect your life and make you feel, and since we are all big Meat fans I think we can understand where all the 10/10 are coming from. So try to relax just a little and enjoy the songs like you want to enjoy them.

[Michel]

But on many topics I see 10/10 whitout explanation. Why do you give it a 10/10. Nobody's knows. And like Bren said, way people are rating things has changed greatly.