Bat Out Of Hell - MSO vs Guilty Pleasures - Musical arrangements

LucyK! · 29 Apr 2013, 17:37

There's already been some chat about this but I didn't want to hijack Meat's thread so thought we'd bring it over here - I'm sure people will have opinions on this one!

I can't believe it, but I actually think the Guilty Pleasures/Farewell Tour version of Bat Out Of Hell live (the album) has overtaken MSO. I never thought that could happen in a million years, I always felt that after the original, MSO was just the perfect version of those songs, how they were meant to sound, but I think it's been beaten!

Listening to MSO today it was lovely, it sounded great and was really enjoyable to hear, but the new versions have got so much more "umph" to them - it's like MSO is a beautiful, family-friendly album and the new arrangements are the raunchy X-rated version!

It's ironic really, Meat set out to perform Bat this tour and take the songs right back to how they originally were, but in doing that they've been given a whole new lease of life (not that Bat ever needed it). The arrangements are outstanding, every night there's a new harmony and each instrument adds something extra, everything show they get heavier and Meatier (pardon the pun) and it's just amazing!!

For those who have been lucky enough to see a Farewell Tour show, go back and listen to MSO and you'll see what I mean - MSO is truly stunning, and of course Meat sounds 10 years younger, but I think I've been converted to the new....I'm in shock!

Smithie · 29 Apr 2013, 17:49

I prefer the version on this current tour. It really rocks. I think the orchestra is great, but I prefer Bat without string instruments.

Sebastian. · 29 Apr 2013, 17:51

This one. I also think Justin adds to it.

melon · 29 Apr 2013, 17:58

All of the above, I love the MSO dvd, it's probably one of my favourite Meaty things... but everything on this tour just gives me that feeling when I walk out like I'm so tired, yet totally amped up at the same time.

The arrangements as mentioned are just mesmerising to me.

LucyK! · 29 Apr 2013, 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebastian.

This one. I also think Justin adds to it.

This....a lot (if not all) of the changes have come from the changes in people we've seen over the last few years. I'm not sure we need to dive back into the politics of all that again, but I think I dare say that the current line up and the roles people have taken on are why we've got such outstanding arrangements now.

I was surprised when we played MSO today just how slow the songs are compared to this tour, and that's sad. We've seen this year that Meat's perfectly capable of doing the songs at the original speed, and those bits that are a little more tricky now (bearing in mind it's 35 years later!!) have been constructively worked with to create a great outcome, I think in former years things like that were hidden under the rug...in my opinion.

Justin - a thousand times yes. I adore Mark, I have a lot of love for him and always will, but for BOOH live Justin (or Mini-Jim as I call him) is the man for the job.

Elijah's way · 29 Apr 2013, 18:03

MSO is a million times better than that sloppy mess guilty pleasure DVD

LucyK! · 29 Apr 2013, 18:07

For clarity, when I said "MSO vs Guilty Pleasures" I did mean the MSO arrangements vs the new ones - I didn't mean to compare the DVDs

MarkS · 29 Apr 2013, 18:28

For me MSO Bat is better than GPT Bat.

I despise the echo effect on the GPT track and MSO features better vocals IMO

CarylB · 29 Apr 2013, 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by LucyK!

This....a lot (if not all) of the changes have come from the changes in people we've seen over the last few years. I'm not sure we need to dive back into the politics of all that again, but I think I dare say that the current line up and the roles people have taken on are why we've got such outstanding arrangements now.

I'd agree wholeheartedly

Quote:

I was surprised when we played MSO today just how slow the songs are compared to this tour, and that's sad. We've seen this year that Meat's perfectly capable of doing the songs at the original speed, and those bits that are a little more tricky now (bearing in mind it's 35 years later!!) have been constructively worked with to create a great outcome, I think in former years things like that were hidden under the rug...in my opinion.

This too. It doesn't stop me enjoying the DVDs I have .. but this tour is simply exceptional. The arrangements are fresh, even when faithful to the original, the players amazing, and Meat imo seems to be delivering every show as if it's the last one he'll ever do .. For many he knows it will be the last show they'll see, and he brings so much to every song, the delivery is jacked up into the stratosphere. I can't really disentangle Meat's power and performance from the arrangements .. the whole is greater than the sum .. but this tour surpasses the DVDs by some distance for me.

Caryl

robgomm · 29 Apr 2013, 19:01

Hmmm I'm split on this. I prefer the arrangements on MSO for some songs and GP for others. When I saw MSO for the first it seemed to me that the orchestra was what had been missing from the songs for 30 years, that's how good it was. But GP was also just as good with Ginny adding that something extra special, and as others have mentioned Justin Jim Steinman Avery. I prefer Bat from MSO because apart from the orchestra it just felt at the time like it was the last time he would ever do that song, if you remember that was called the last world tour lol. I also love Frying Pan from that. At the same time I prefer the new superb arrangements of AFL and TTW from GP, and don't even get me started on RRD, possibly the best arrangement of any song ever, so magical with the acoustic start.

So bottom line is I can't say one is better than the other.

Evil One · 29 Apr 2013, 19:17

I agree with much that has been written on this thread. The new arrangements of all seven songs are better than they have been in many years with one slight exception - All Revved Up needs the long instrumental intro bringing back.

**The Flying Mouse** · 29 Apr 2013, 19:51

The two versions are so different it's hard for me to compare them.

MSO was pretty special with it's slower arrangement and the full orchestra backing, but the current back to basics guts and glory approach is equally thrilling.

It's like (pardon the similie) trying to decide if a slow romantic bout of love making is better or worse than a hard fast f*ck

It's what you're in the mood for at the time

Bat, to me, is the best song ever written, and in all it's incantations and versions it's unbeatable.

Cherry.Loaf · 29 Apr 2013, 20:21

I'm going to Say Guilty Pleasure/Last at Bat because I love the rockier sound to my music and it's so heavy and intense even in Took the words the sheer sound explosion at the start sets me soul alight; The only song I prefer is 2/3 on MSO as it's heart achingly beautiful and soulful.

meatloaf5 · 29 Apr 2013, 22:18

For us, we prefer Guilty Pleasures? Why? Because that is the closest to seeing Meat live in Birmingham. There`s something much more lively in a live performance than a "studio" recording.

In the absence of a Last AT Bat DVD, Guilty Pleasures wins.

That said, MSO is more vocally "perfect" and is good for listening to, rather than watching.

However, everything Meat does is just awesome :)

ForeverInBat · 29 Apr 2013, 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by LucyK!

Listening to MSO today it was lovely, it sounded great and was really enjoyable to hear, but the new versions have got so much more "umph" to them - it's like MSO is a beautiful, family-friendly album and the new arrangements are the raunchy X-rated version!

Absolutely brilliant analysis! Not a better way of puting it.

MSO was great, but for me it wasnt what a Meat Loaf gig should be. Liverpool 2005 HOTD was rocky, edgy and was everything I believe a Meat gig should be, and it wasnt until Guilty Pleasures that Meat brought this back.

For me - Guilty Pleasures = Meat Loaf and NLE as it should be!!!

suzieq · 30 Apr 2013, 00:27

I have been absolutely addicted to the Guilty Pleasure CD. I had the same experience with the MSO CD. However, both offer Meat on a different musical climate.

For the MSO, the backing of the orchestra is just exquisite. I do like how the NLE adapted the rockier edges of songs to blend with the orchestra, as to not seem like it was a completely separate entity. I read somewhere that Paul wasn't exactly happy with the mix but I'd be damned if I could figure out what the fault is. I love it. Must mention: For Crying Out Loud....as live as I've heard it (still waiting our turn in the US) and reading reviews today, just kills me.

Guilty Pleasures: The intro to Hot Patootie is slammin'! It's just a mover everytime I hear it. I'm happy to have some Hang Cool Tracks on a live CD coupled with the classic favorites. THEN enter Justin Avery and Ginny Luke for their dueling parts in 2 Out of 3, it is just flat out jaw dropping. Justin's intro to Anything for Love and Paul and Randy's guitar solos. AND BAT! I know I'm forgetting other parts that are stand outs.

I do see differences, but I love them both as their addicting selves can be. For me, it's impossible to make a bad pick here. I'm glad I have both and interchange them as needed.

wolfy35 · 30 Apr 2013, 00:40

I like them both equally on their own merit and I think comparing them is doing both albums a disservice.

MSO was born I believe from Jim's vision where he said he always hears his tracks played orchestrally and I do like the sound even if there is the minor niggle that they had to slow down the arrangement for the orchestra to keep up.

Guilty pleasures is a more raw "dirty" sound that I think works really well and I will admit to being more than a little surprised just how good the Violin sounds in there.

Wario · 30 Apr 2013, 01:16

Still prefer MSO. The arrangement on the GOT was ok, but the orchestra and everything just meshed on MSO.

The one thing though that the GPT version has is Patti's Yells and stuff which I looooove. the MSO version plus Patti's yells and vocalizations on the GPT version would be PERFECT.

still nothing has surpassed the Beacon Theater version.

Another arrangement I love alot too is this one:

YouTube Video

Vickip · 30 Apr 2013, 04:23

Speaking of the Beacon Theater, Meat said on his FB page that he wants the Beacon Theater to be the last show of the tour in the USA in July.
That will absolutely spectacular

melon · 30 Apr 2013, 05:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vickip

Speaking of the Beacon Theater, Meat said on his FB page that he wants the Beacon Theater to be the last show of the tour in the USA in July.
That will absolutely spectacular

Somehow I think a us tour in July is a little unlikely right now, not saying he won't, I just think July is a little soon now.

Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Forum Runner

ShelbyLee · 01 May 2013, 17:30

I prefer MSO over GP, but the current version is my favorite.

This Last At Bat Tour definitely belongs on dvd.

melon · 02 May 2013, 01:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShelbyLee

I prefer MSO over GP, but the current version is my favorite.

This Last At Bat Tour definitely belongs on dvd.

Agreed

Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Forum Runner

AndrewG · 02 May 2013, 02:11

Love the new ending to Paradise when they sing part of the chorus once again. Don't think I've ever heard it done like that before. It works well!

Wario · 02 May 2013, 04:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Love the new ending to Paradise when they sing part of the chorus once again. Don't think I've ever heard it done like that before. It works well!

Its actually like that on the karaoke track that almost every meat loaf tribute has sung to at least once for years. wonder if he got it from that

Meat Loaf_fan · 02 May 2013, 09:22

Both of them (MSO and GP) are (at least to me) fantastic!

MSO version has orchestra and I like it from the start. GP version however totally blown me away from my feet. In conclusion: although I love orchestra I think that new version is simply better (partially because they are Justin Avery and Ginny Luke

... and of course other members of Neverland Express).

29 Apr 2013, 17:37	#1
LucyK! The Monster Is Luce Join Date: 14.04.2002 Location: Posts: 7,547	Bat Out Of Hell - MSO vs Guilty Pleasures - Musical arrangements There's already been some chat about this but I didn't want to hijack Meat's thread so thought we'd bring it over here - I'm sure people will have opinions on this one! I can't believe it, but I actually think the Guilty Pleasures/Farewell Tour version of Bat Out Of Hell live (the album) has overtaken MSO. I never thought that could happen in a million years, I always felt that after the original, MSO was just the perfect version of those songs, how they were meant to sound, but I think it's been beaten! Listening to MSO today it was lovely, it sounded great and was really enjoyable to hear, but the new versions have got so much more "umph" to them - it's like MSO is a beautiful, family-friendly album and the new arrangements are the raunchy X-rated version! It's ironic really, Meat set out to perform Bat this tour and take the songs right back to how they originally were, but in doing that they've been given a whole new lease of life (not that Bat ever needed it). The arrangements are outstanding, every night there's a new harmony and each instrument adds something extra, everything show they get heavier and Meatier (pardon the pun) and it's just amazing!! For those who have been lucky enough to see a Farewell Tour show, go back and listen to MSO and you'll see what I mean - MSO is truly stunning, and of course Meat sounds 10 years younger, but I think I've been converted to the new....I'm in shock!

29 Apr 2013, 18:07	#7
LucyK! The Monster Is Luce Join Date: 14.04.2002 Location: Posts: 7,547	For clarity, when I said "MSO vs Guilty Pleasures" I did mean the MSO arrangements vs the new ones - I didn't mean to compare the DVDs Last edited by LucyK!; 29 Apr 2013 at 18:34. Reason: Too tired to type properly

29 Apr 2013, 17:49	#2
Smithie Super Loafer Join Date: 11.08.2009 Posts: 756	I prefer the version on this current tour. It really rocks. I think the orchestra is great, but I prefer Bat without string instruments.

29 Apr 2013, 17:51	#3
Sebastian. Biggles Join Date: 15.02.2011 Location: Texas Posts: 2,029	This one. I also think Justin adds to it.

29 Apr 2013, 17:58	#4
melon Long Distance Loafer Join Date: 17.07.2007 Location: Perth, Australia Posts: 4,586	All of the above, I love the MSO dvd, it's probably one of my favourite Meaty things... but everything on this tour just gives me that feeling when I walk out like I'm so tired, yet totally amped up at the same time. The arrangements as mentioned are just mesmerising to me.

29 Apr 2013, 18:03	#6
Elijah's way Soul Auctioneer Join Date: 26.06.2005 Location: Muscle Shoals, AL Posts: 1,529	MSO is a million times better than that sloppy mess guilty pleasure DVD

29 Apr 2013, 18:28	#8
MarkS Super Loafer Join Date: 20.03.2012 Posts: 313	For me MSO Bat is better than GPT Bat. I despise the echo effect on the GPT track and MSO features better vocals IMO

29 Apr 2013, 19:01	#10
robgomm Mega Loafer Join Date: 22.10.2006 Location: Hemel Hempstead, UK Posts: 1,671	Hmmm I'm split on this. I prefer the arrangements on MSO for some songs and GP for others. When I saw MSO for the first it seemed to me that the orchestra was what had been missing from the songs for 30 years, that's how good it was. But GP was also just as good with Ginny adding that something extra special, and as others have mentioned Justin Jim Steinman Avery. I prefer Bat from MSO because apart from the orchestra it just felt at the time like it was the last time he would ever do that song, if you remember that was called the last world tour lol. I also love Frying Pan from that. At the same time I prefer the new superb arrangements of AFL and TTW from GP, and don't even get me started on RRD, possibly the best arrangement of any song ever, so magical with the acoustic start. So bottom line is I can't say one is better than the other.

29 Apr 2013, 19:17	#11
Evil One Mega Loafer Join Date: 15.01.2007 Posts: 5,192	I agree with much that has been written on this thread. The new arrangements of all seven songs are better than they have been in many years with one slight exception - All Revved Up needs the long instrumental intro bringing back.

29 Apr 2013, 19:51	#12
The Flying Mouse Armed ba$tard and Jo's other half. Join Date: 06.08.2002 Location: In the middle of nowhere near the end of the line. Posts: 16,104	The two versions are so different it's hard for me to compare them. MSO was pretty special with it's slower arrangement and the full orchestra backing, but the current back to basics guts and glory approach is equally thrilling. It's like (pardon the similie) trying to decide if a slow romantic bout of love making is better or worse than a hard fast f*ck It's what you're in the mood for at the time Bat, to me, is the best song ever written, and in all it's incantations and versions it's unbeatable.

29 Apr 2013, 20:21	#13
Cherry.Loaf Los Angeloser Join Date: 02.04.2010 Location: Bristol Posts: 1,072	I'm going to Say Guilty Pleasure/Last at Bat because I love the rockier sound to my music and it's so heavy and intense even in Took the words the sheer sound explosion at the start sets me soul alight; The only song I prefer is 2/3 on MSO as it's heart achingly beautiful and soulful.

29 Apr 2013, 22:18	#14
meatloaf5 Loafer Join Date: 18.01.2008 Location: Jersey, Channel Islands Posts: 71	For us, we prefer Guilty Pleasures? Why? Because that is the closest to seeing Meat live in Birmingham. There`s something much more lively in a live performance than a "studio" recording. In the absence of a Last AT Bat DVD, Guilty Pleasures wins. That said, MSO is more vocally "perfect" and is good for listening to, rather than watching. However, everything Meat does is just awesome :)

30 Apr 2013, 00:27	#16
suzieq Mega Loafer Join Date: 26.10.2008 Location: West Palm Beach, Florida Posts: 2,319	I have been absolutely addicted to the Guilty Pleasure CD. I had the same experience with the MSO CD. However, both offer Meat on a different musical climate. For the MSO, the backing of the orchestra is just exquisite. I do like how the NLE adapted the rockier edges of songs to blend with the orchestra, as to not seem like it was a completely separate entity. I read somewhere that Paul wasn't exactly happy with the mix but I'd be damned if I could figure out what the fault is. I love it. Must mention: For Crying Out Loud....as live as I've heard it (still waiting our turn in the US) and reading reviews today, just kills me. Guilty Pleasures: The intro to Hot Patootie is slammin'! It's just a mover everytime I hear it. I'm happy to have some Hang Cool Tracks on a live CD coupled with the classic favorites. THEN enter Justin Avery and Ginny Luke for their dueling parts in 2 Out of 3, it is just flat out jaw dropping. Justin's intro to Anything for Love and Paul and Randy's guitar solos. AND BAT! I know I'm forgetting other parts that are stand outs. I do see differences, but I love them both as their addicting selves can be. For me, it's impossible to make a bad pick here. I'm glad I have both and interchange them as needed.

30 Apr 2013, 00:40	#17
wolfy35 Dangerous on a full moon Join Date: 14.03.2007 Location: Standing on the outside, Looking in on you Posts: 751	I like them both equally on their own merit and I think comparing them is doing both albums a disservice. MSO was born I believe from Jim's vision where he said he always hears his tracks played orchestrally and I do like the sound even if there is the minor niggle that they had to slow down the arrangement for the orchestra to keep up. Guilty pleasures is a more raw "dirty" sound that I think works really well and I will admit to being more than a little surprised just how good the Violin sounds in there.

30 Apr 2013, 04:23	#19
Vickip Mega Loafer Join Date: 07.02.2003 Location: Posts: 8,101	Speaking of the Beacon Theater, Meat said on his FB page that he wants the Beacon Theater to be the last show of the tour in the USA in July. That will absolutely spectacular

01 May 2013, 17:30	#21
ShelbyLee Super Loafer Join Date: 30.06.2011 Posts: 277	I prefer MSO over GP, but the current version is my favorite. This Last At Bat Tour definitely belongs on dvd.

02 May 2013, 02:11	#23
AndrewG I hope your salmon sucks! Join Date: 18.01.2004 Location: Northamptonshire Posts: 7,080	Love the new ending to Paradise when they sing part of the chorus once again. Don't think I've ever heard it done like that before. It works well!

02 May 2013, 09:22	#25
Meat Loaf_fan Super Loafer Join Date: 01.03.2008 Location: Gdańsk (Poland) Posts: 311	Both of them (MSO and GP) are (at least to me) fantastic! MSO version has orchestra and I like it from the start. GP version however totally blown me away from my feet. In conclusion: although I love orchestra I think that new version is simply better (partially because they are Justin Avery and Ginny Luke ... and of course other members of Neverland Express).