Bat out of Hell IV: The Final at Bat
 

How awesome does that look on paper (pixels)? :D No, I don't think it will ever happen, sadly, but we can all dream. However, let's say that, in theory, some time in the future Meat and Steinman get together one last time to put together another album. No, it probably wouldn't be called Bat IV, but for the purpose of this thread let's leave it at that. So, my question is - what would your ideal track list be? What songs would you love to hear Meat sing that probably won't ever happen?

-Tonight Is What It Means To Be Young (from Streets of Fire)
-Stark Raving Love (From Bad for Good)
-Safe Sex (From Original Sin)
-What Part of My Body Hurts the Most (From the unreleased Dream Engine album) Heard a demo of this song on YouTube and thought it sounded interesting, reminded me of I'd Do Anything For Love for some reason.

This sounds like the start of 'if there was a bat 3' again! We've had this discussion about a million times with regards to tracks! :P

Wouldn't it be cool if all that appeared on the cover, apart from the artwork, was:

"BAT OUT OF HELL:________(fill in title here)
MEAT LOAF & JIM STEINMAN."

Using Bat as the marketing name this time.
Then everyone could go off and live happily ever after :D

it will happen you know? :lol:

Safe Sex is a woman's song. Meat hates Stark Raving Love. If he thought highly of any of Steinman's other songs then they would have appeared on Bat 3 and I don't think Jim has enough new material to fill up a whole album. Probably the best we can hope for is a couple of songs for a greatest hits compilation.

...unless Jim has a bunch of tracks he's never recorded and released before. Which is more than possible. Or has - gasp - written some new ones! =O

In which case it's most likely they would have been given to The Dream Engine. Also, can you honestly imagine Meat singing the likes of Catwoman's Song?

I would love to think there will be new material with an on form Sir Loaf and Mr Steinman (old argument about to get started I'm sure) but their health and focusing on other projects would lead me to believe neither will do it and that more than likely it'd take another greatest hits collection with a couple of new songs.

Of the songs left I'm not sure there's any Steinman song that Meat would want to sing.

Stark raving love is a terrible song, so much so that, in my opinion, Steinman gave up on writing lyrics and just stuck in Lost Boys and Golden Girls. So I can't see Meat even wanting to be within 100 miles of that song.

Anything that remains from Pandora's box should just be left as it is. Safe Sex is a song for a female perspective and that's basically about it from that album.

The Batman musical songs again have gone as far as they can go and while in some form What part of my body hurts the most would've been a great song for Meat around the time of Bat II or maybe the Very Best of, now I think it should be left alone.

As Bat III has shown it shouldn't be recycled songs with a Meat and Jim partnership, even though it worked on Bat II, they've gone to the well and it's basically dry on that score. If they were to do something it'd need to be completely new and I'm not sure either has the time to put it all together.

Why do they necessarily have to work on a larger project? If they recorded just one good song together I'd be happy. I can imagine it being the theme music of a popular TV series or movie.

one new song would be good but even then, has anything that Jim Steinman has ever done been considered to be quick?

it just tends to be the case that if it's Meat and Jim working together just one song out of the blue (and not on a compilation or new album) wouldn't be something a record company would want to get behind and as much as Meat going it alone has been discussed, every artist needs some form of distribution and backing from a record company to get a product out there.

As much as people complain about Mercury; they have pushed HCTB, whether they've pushed it hard and far enough is another matter.

On the subject of speed, it's possible that there are a whole bunch of unused backing tracks left over from TDE that could easily have Meat's vocals slapped on them. The main problem with that is whether Steve Rinkoff has any ownership to them as I believe he and Meat aren't the best of friends.

On the subject of Steinman tunes that could be used I offer:

What Part Of My Body Hurts The Most and a reworded Tonight Is What It Means To Be Young (changing the young bit obviously)

but in all honesty would you have meat's vocals 'slapped' on a track just for the sake of saying it's a Meat/Jim collaboration?

I'd rather have something they both care about and put substantial effort into rather then just releasing left overs. At this stage of their lives I wouldn't bank on it happening.

Of course not. But if it's a choice between a bit of 'vocal slapping' and nothing at all then something's got to be better than nothing? :shrug:

well the nothing at all choice has them leaving a legacy behind of great work in Bat I and II.

If they are going to do something for the hell of it (no pun intended) they may as well just take themselves on tour like the Police and do it for a bucketful of money.

I understand where you're coming from, my fear of it is that they just crap all over everything they worked hard to build when neither are in a position that they need to do it.

"Braver Than We Are" by Meat & Patti

Yes, and that's where legacies should be imo.

Meat's said no more Bats .. he's moved on, and I love what he's doing now. Imo the well isn't just dry, it's been capped. I have no desire to see them try and recapture something which effectively drew to a close 15 years ago, but would love to see more from Meat as he's delivering now.

Caryl

I would love to see both, at some point. It would be incredibly cool if Meat made a further 2 HCTB albums - evolving the story, or even something completely new.

Jim and Meat - it would serve as nice grace note to both of their careers if they could work together on one all new album, take their time, and get it just right.

One thing's for sure: Stark Ravving Love is more a BOOH song then 95% of Bat 3...

i'll eat 4 big macs in one sitting (as i'm a vegetarian i wouldn't want to do it) if Meat records Stark Raving Love for any album.

Ha, since McDonalds don't actually use real beef, I think you'll be fine :lol:

I'll eat 4 vegetarians in one sitting if Meat does Stark Raving Love. :twisted:

i think i'll be safe on both counts

I'll boil Evil One's testicles in his boiler if Meat does Stark Raving Love :twisted:

Re Bat III, DC managed to shoot the Bat legacy in the foot-acy, so maybe Meat would want to leave the series on a high rather than a low. That said, I really can't see that Jim has enough material for a full album, nor the time+health to be fully on board with the production thereof. So, for me, a track or two in a Bat Musical album would be the best we can hope for.

As for HCTB5+, can't see that happening now that HCTB seems to be disappearing off the radar.

Dave

I believe Jim has enough material. Plus Meat hasn't covered Total Eclipse or Making Love yet ;) But yeah, Jims health and his 'can't be arsed anymore' attitude would problably put the kibosh on a Bat4.

its amazing to see that people would still accept the idea of a 4th Bat?:lol:
oooooh!! if only? well a person can hope i guess:D

Rather than a 4th Bat, I'd like Jim and Meat to do the 'Conclusions & Climaxes' EP thingy Jim was prattling on about a few years ago.

well anything would be nice.

agreeing with pudding, Id like a full Meat & Jim album that wasnt titled Bat out of hell.

Granted we did got Dead Ringer, but that doesn't count for obvious reasons...

Mabey "Safe Sex of the Renegade" or "God Has Left The Building"

If Jim and Meat reunite, it's gotta be called "Renegade Angel." Sure, it might turn out to be a completely different record than the canceled 1979 "Renegade Angel," but you can't just waste a great title like that. And also, I can't be the only one to like "Stark Raving Love". Hell, I like "Dance in my Pants" too.

Since Meat seems to be entering his Late Career Energetic Period, if Steinman's got something for him, now's the time.

Meat & Jim in the studio doing an acoustic album of old and some new songs ;)

No, you can't. :cool:

How can you not love a line like, "Too much is never enough" ? ;)

Think about this:

There may never be another Bat album. Like a lot of fans, Meat isn't happy with Bat 3. However, the vocals are great, the songs are mostly really good. It's just the production and vibe that makes it NOT a Bat album. So...

What if you could have a "As it was intended to be" version? A re-release, but a justifiable one. Steinman and Meat in the studio - taking each track apart and re-arranging and recording extra background vocals, orchestration, etc. A kind of definitive edition, a final edition, and a fitting end to the Bat legacy. A full on steinman sounding production.

With all new artwork.

I really think that album could f**king shine with a better vibe and a bigger, more coherent production.

Doode.

We'll never get to hear it, but I love to know what both Meat and Jim would add to this thread for themselves.

Not as in... what they write is going to happen..... just their thoughts too, like the previous posts in this thread.

Sorry... maybe I need coffee... what obvious reasons? I love Dead Ringer - got some of Meat and Jim's best songs imho.

That did sound very good, and Meat always talked about a "little piece of the jigsaw left to complete" around Bat 3. Jim must have had time to write it by now surely ;) ?

Well, yes I like that line. But to me the song just descends into chaotic noise by the end.

Could be very good indeed. Essentially, just wheel in a maniacal pianist, a thunder machine, and a choir full of horny angels, and away you go. Great idea!

Surely you're not referring to Davey Johnstone's "Multiple Guitar Finale"? :shock:

If you listen to the interview I posted that's now in the HCTB section, Meat says a little something about his feelings... :D

Lol - I suspect that's the one, yes.

Yea but it doesnt count cause Jim had nothing to do with the album ....

Except write all the songs and arrange everything except guitar and vocals? :shrug:

:yep:

Yep :))

Jim complained always that his name is with small letters on Bat. After this he had only a low budget album (BFG) under his name. What about this?

MEAT LOAF & JIM STEINMAN: Renegade Angels

With the name of Jim on the top. They are old, I think Meat can do one more album and not more (and no more concerts, please).

I want to hear big orchestra like in FCOL or KIATTTW.

What Part Of My Body Hearts The Most, Braver Than We Are, Death Is Such An Odd Thing...

I miss a great Jim & Meat song in 15 years!!!

Renegade Angel might have worked as some sort of title 30 years ago but not today :nope:

Last Stand - The Bat Chronicals

Noooo, makes me think of the dreadful X-Men 3: The Last Stand.

what about? No Chance In Hell - Its Ever Gonna Happen

Better than The Last At Bat. I thought that was a terrible title.

true!!

Definitely - considering 'last at bat' means nothing outside of North America,

What I'd love to see, though it would never happen, would be for Meat to record a few Jim songs now to release in 10/15 years time.

Bog off lol, I had a hard enough time waiting for HCTB, 10 to 15yrs????????

Put it this way - I think a 'Bat' project would draw a lot of derision at this point. Imagine the prospect of having that last EP of Jim/Meat songs post-retirement, as a true final blaze of glory.

it would sell shit loads i would expect? but it would have to be the right reasons? and to be honest i think Meat wants to get away from that sound?
but you never know?

:twisted: I'd love Meat to work with Jim again on a project, but not one called Bat IV.

Trilogies come in 3.
There have been 3 Bats.
Anything over 3 will be an anti climax.

Once you go past a logical finishing place then you have no logical place to finish.

Resulting in a series that will always remain unfinished.

Not good :nope:

I think if anything happens, it will be done very quietly and with little fanfare. As far as a title, how about LIVING ON THE EDGE OF DESTRUCTION?

Since Jim didn't want Meat call it a Bat Out Of Hell album and Meat not liking the end result at all, then one could argue that the trilogy hasn't logically finished at all.

How about Bat Out Of Hell 3.1 -The Lawyers Are At Rest (In Hell).

Okay, since the series gave me my username, I feel obliged to comment here. I must be one of the few people left in the world who actually enjoyed Bat 3, if there were any of us out there to begin with. Say what you will about the title or Meat and Jim not working together, but it was for all intents and purposes a solid album that tried to live (and love) up to the legacy established by the previous two. I'm putting myself in an even smaller minority by saying I preferred the Steinman tracks to Desmond's half of the album, but that's neither here nor there.

Would I welcome a Bat 4? Well, in interviews, Steinman always made the comparison to The Godfather having three parts, as if that was like the keystone reason for why there were two or three albums instead of one. (Ironically enough, The Godfather also had two really well-received parts and a third part that was widely deemed to be shite as well which featured many of the same people from the first two, but didn't capture the same spirit.) If you go for a fourth album in the series, that's like adding on to The Godfather -- at this point, who would want to take on that task?

I'd be perfectly content with new Meat and Jim product if both of them are up to it. The Dream Engine shows (at least by the looks of track lists on everyone's websites) proved that Jim still has some material knocking around in the old noggin ("Body," "Still the Children," even "Speaking in Tongues" [which I've only seen the lyrics to] would arguably fit on such an album in keeping with the tradition of "Surf's Up"), but the real question is this: Is there enough to fill an album? And if so, is it worth it for either of them, at their advanced age, with their reported health problems, to go in the studio for an extended period of time (presumably for the seven years it apparently took to record Bat 2, if we want it to sound half as good) for a niche audience that may well have depleted in this age of downloads?

On paper, it doesn't look like it. But I'm willing to be proved wrong. :)

First of all, it wouldn't take seven years. The songs that would be available are done.
WHAT PART OF MY BODY HURTS THE MOST
STILL THE CHILDREN
SPEAKING IN TONGUES
NOT ALLOWED TO LOVE
PARADISE LOST
THE MONSTER IS OUT OF HIS CAGE
RENEGADE ANGEL
GOD HAS LEFT THE BUILDING
These are all titles Jim has claimed he has. They have yet to see the light of day. I'm sure we've heard bits and pieces here and there but I can't help but wonder if Jim deep down figures they were written for Meat and should be done by Meat.
Could be wrong but I think that Jim has only ever said Meat was the perfect instrument to deliver his songs.

Oh forgot the title. Can't see them calling it BAT OUT OF HELL. Starting to sound like the JAWS franchise.
Renegade Angel... too good of a title to let it go to waste.

Titles is the key word. There is no evidence that these songs exist other than the odd snippet of lyrics.

Fair enough. But I'd take the chance that he has them more or less written. Meat mentioned God has left the building in the 90's.

Whether Jim has written them or not is irrelevent, it's whether they'd be any good that's important.

God has left teh builad has indeed seen the light of day ....

^ Well, kind of. Look at my avatar if you want to know where an instrumental number by that title was heard. And it might be typical of Jim to stick the big title on an instrumental number (COUGH "Back into Hell" should have been an epic sequel song COUGH). But we don't know for sure if that's the one he wrote for Meat.

As for what renegadeangel listed, only half of those song titles are known to actually exist in full fledged form. Jim also named other songs including "Braver Than We Are." If you add that, we have five, six if you want to count "God Has Left the Building" in instrumental form as the game-changer. Standard albums these days call for at least another eight or nine songs. Even throwing in Jim left-overs like "Stark Raving Love" and "Dance in My Pants," and maybe for desperation giving Meat the songs the label turned down for MATLAF that were hits with other artists, it'd be a pretty lackluster album material-wise overall, because it'd be a retread of the Bat 2 formula - take the rejects, mix them with new songs and a good marketing campaign, stamp Meat Loaf's voice on it, and throw it on the shelves for masses who may not even buy it.

I'm sure Meat would rather not feel like the cog in someone else's wheel. If he never makes another record after HCTB, I'll be perfectly happy. At least he made an album that was what he wanted.

What avatar?

It's either very small or very grey.

It's not bloody showing for some reason. If anyone can be arsed to actually go to my profile and look at it, they'll know what I mean. The Steinman fans should know by context that I'm referring to a specific show where the instrumental appeared.

Check if it shows up in the "edit avatar" section. Maybe you've set it up as a profile pic only? Or maybe it is too large? In this case, try to reduce its size to 80 x 80 pixels.

Thanks, mate, did the trick.

First off, Meat would never do STARK RAVING LOVE or DANCE IN MY PANTS. I doubt Jim is up to doing much more than writing lyrics and doing the best he can with the music.
Nothing will come out titled BAT 4. I still believe that there is a chance of a RENEGADE ANGEL album of some sort. Imagine Rob producing such an album.

How can you be so absolutely certain Meat would never do them? I thought Meat would never do IACBTMN and he did, I wished he hadn't, but there you go.

He has never liked STARK RAVING LOVE and if he was going to do DANCE IN MY PANTS, we would have seen it on BAT 3.

He did dance in my pants live in 1988.

YouTube Video

he obviously has some soft spot for it.

Cheers Wario. So that's half the theory completely blown out of the water.

Really? How many times has he sang since 1988? I think he was just trying out some songs for BAT 2. By the time he hit North America he wasn't playing BFG or DIMP anymore. He was playing LBAGG and OOTFP.

Well you said he would "Never" do them and I proved you wrong their. ;)

Mabey he took them off the set cause he wanted to shorten the show in North America. It was his weakest market at the time.

he instead performed All Revved up, Rock n roll mercenaries, and HCW cause unlike in europe, americans really only essentially know the BOOH tracks and stuff from BFG would be too obscure. He put RRM in so he coudl promote his single over there.

Point is he did DIMP.

To stack more wood on the fire, Meat also said at some point he'd never record "Bad for Good" because it was a copy of "Bat." Didn't stop him (or whoever was in control, because I like to give Meat the benefit of the doubt) from recording it for Bat 3. Our point, I guess, is that if there's nothing else Jim has on the pile ready to record, then much like Bat 3, sometimes you just gotta make do with the left-overs.

And seriously, on another topic, what's with all the "Stark Raving Love" hate? I think it's an awesome track in spite of Jim's vocals. Wait a minute -- theorist's cap coming on: song Meat swore he'd never do... his guitarist came up with a good arrangement... anyone who's listened to the song knows how big the guitar is toward the end... but then where would Patti come in? Ah, maybe I'm just connecting the wrong dots.

But he never did SRL nor did he officially record DIMP for any kind of release. My point is that Steinman probably told Meat there would be some songs from BFG on the new album and Meat wanted to get a feel for what people liked. He did do OOTFP in North America and LBAGG and they made BAT 2. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to hear an official release of Meat doing every Steinman song but thats not going to happen. unfortunately.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't he also have both those songs in the European set as well? I mean, if your basis for this "Meat didn't do those songs because they didn't test highly" theory is that he stuck to those two in America, then that's not proving much.

No it isn't. Meat generally drops songs when he does the US. For the Bat 3 tour I think he only did Break It and Pigs on the American leg. I guess it's either because most Americans only know Bat 1 and AFL, or because there is a smaller crowd and a shorter show will cost less to put on. :shrug:

It seems the goalposts from 'NEVER' are shifting :roll:

Alright, so in summary, the new material that actually exists that could go on a proposed Bat 4:

WHAT PART OF MY BODY HURTS THE MOST?
WE'RE STILL THE CHILDREN WE ONCE WERE
SPEAKING IN TONGUES
NOT ALLOWED TO LOVE
GOD HAS LEFT THE BUILDING (instrumental)
BRAVER THAN WE ARE
And maybe that speech they did at the Dream Engine concerts (it's called "Dear Mama" on Evil Nickname's website)

That's seven new tracks. Certainly better numbers-wise than the four Bat 2 had. But that's only half an album in today's industry. At this point, if Jim can't write newer "new" stuff, we start hitting the desperation bins, songs like:

STARK RAVING LOVE
DANCE IN MY PANTS
TOTAL ECLIPSE OF THE HEART
MAKING LOVE (OUT OF NOTHING AT ALL)
TONIGHT IS WHAT IT MEANS TO BE YOUNG
MORE
SAFE SEX

I include "Total Eclipse" and "Making Love," two of Jim's biggest hits without Meat, because Meat claims they were originally written for him, and may or may not have performed "Making Love" live at some point (I saw the rumor somewhere on this forum when I did a search on the song title, but I can't remember who said he did it). I also don't particularly think "Safe Sex" suits Meat, but someone mentioned it in this thread and if it can be done, more power to him. As for "More," I kind of heard "The Monster is Loose" recently and it suddenly reminded me of "More" for some reason. I figured if Meat wanted to open with a metal track somewhere, why not one Jim (co-)wrote?

7 + 7, for those who failed maths, is 14, and that brings us a finished album. If someone can put this into an actual track list, then maybe that'll help get the ball rolling.

And this is saying nothing of "Faster Than the Speed of Night" and three other songs of Jim's Bonnie did that Meat could do with very little re-write.

WTF? :wtf: Meat shouldn't have touched IACBTMN but to cover Bonnie Tyler, that's just nucking futs :nuts:

Well, I don't see Jim writing any more material to cover the gap. Believe it or not, a lot of Bonnie's stuff can easily be adapted to Meat. "Rebel Without a Clue" would be perfect, for example, if you just changed up the lyrics a tiny bit.

I'd eat a bowl of dog shit if Meat ever covered a Bonnie Tyler song for another album. But you're right, I don't think Jim has got a lot of new material but that doesn't mean Meat should sing whatever else Steinman songs he hasn't just to make an album.

well i hope he never does record them? they are proper shite!!!!

i agree, unless Jim writes something new? i wouldnt go near them.

I wouldn't mind Meat doing a less 80's sounding version of Faster Than The Speed Of Night, but I wouldn't touch the rest.

:lmao: Now there's a bet I'd take. Let's start another fan campaign to get Meat to do Holding Out For A Hero :lol:

Agreed. Would make an interesting bonus disc in a 2cd set or something, but the main album shouldn't be just a collection of off the shelf covers picked to fill 74 mins or whatever it is.

I'd love it to be all new Steinman material, but that requires it to actually exist. The "new" stuff on my list is already several years old. When you have to fill an album, sometimes you've got to go the desperation route, and with Steinman that quickly turns into "What songs has he not sung yet that can be brushed off quickly and turned into Meat material?" The Bonnie stuff I mentioned, aside from "Holding Out for a Hero" which would be bloody ridiculous for Meat to sing since he's a guy, is actually generic enough to fit, and where it needs fixes, the fixes are small (again, I point to "Rebel Without a Clue").

Which is why this album will never happen. I've said it before but I think it is worth repeating: it's much more likely that we'll see Meat put vocals to a couple of TDE backing tracks for a greatest hits compilation. Probably What Part Of My Body Hurts The Most and something else, maybe Still The Children. :shrug:

Well, with everything suggested so far, we have roughly 18 tracks. In the old days, that would have been enough for two albums. Now, it's an exceedingly long album at best. I recently bought the 2010 cast recording of "Dance of the Vampires" in Vienna, and the credits indicate that Jim sort of had an "I approve or I don't" position while Rinkoff did the actual work. Maybe that's the way to easily accomplish something like this?

But Meat and Rinkoff don't get on.

Anyway, back on planet Earth, I think HCTB is Meats last album and it looks like Jim has no interest to go back into the studio. So what we've been given is our lot.

No it's not. We have still got " Meat Loaf sings The Village People" album, (produced by Jim Steinman) to look forward to. With classics like YMCA, In The Navy and Macho Man imagine the sales. A whole new market to capture. Platinum in no time. Follow up album Meat Loaf with the cast of Glee (Produced by Jim Steinman).

I don't think it will be his last. Everyone is listing songs that could go on an album. Whos to say that Jim hasn't written an album just for Meat? He did do BFG and then DEADRINGER. That's pretty amazing that he could turn out that many songs so fast.
I'm going to stay with what I think would make an album if one should ever happen...
PARADISE LOST
RENEGADE ANGEL
GOD HAS LEFT THE BUILDING
WHAT PART OF MY BODY HURTS THE MOST
NOT ALLOWED TO LOVE
ONLY WHEN I FEEL
SPEAKING IN TONGUES
WE'RE STILL THE CHILDREN
This is a good place to start

I don't necessarily think this will be the last album from Meat, but I really do not ever see there being a Bat 4.

Meats doing 2 more albums:D

Says who?

My thought is, why would an album of cast off and hand-me-down songs be anything that would interest me? It is not important enough for there to be another Meat Loaf and Jim Steinman album to have to scrape the bottom of the pot to get enough material. As a Meat Loaf fan, I would far prefer Mr. Loaf to continue to seek out new and exciting material than to record a song just because of who wrote it.