View Full Version : 117. California Dreamin'
White of High
12 May 2012, 15:54
This is the START OUT OF HELL & ARRIVE TO HEAVEN topic.
Let's Go to Rock 'n' Roll!!!!!!!
California Dreamin' (5)
I'm not a fan of covered songs, except Knockin' On Heaven's Door by Guns and Stand By Me by Meat. This song is far from the original one what is not my cup of tea either. The saxophone is great, Patti's voice is perfect, Meat's voice doesn't fit on it.
My score: 5
Evil One
12 May 2012, 16:09
7
Mr. Happy
12 May 2012, 16:13
6. Love the arrangement (and I think it's light years beyond the original), but Meat's voice is too powerful for the song and whatever was done to Patti's voice doesn't agree with me. Brilliant saxophone work, though. Meat needs to use more sax in general :P
Meat Loaf_fan
12 May 2012, 16:21
Simply and clearly - good job Meat :!:
- I like covers done by Meat like: "It's All Coming Back To Me Now", "Bad For Good", "Left In The Dark", "Out Of The Frying Pan", "Lost Boys And Golden Girls", "Surf's Up" or non-Steinman like "Black Betty".
- Saxophone is a brilliant idea.
- Patti Russo did an amazing job.
- "Hell In A Handbasket" is on the 3rd position in my private ranking of Meat's albums.
- Meat's voice is perfect now :up: ... at least to me (and perhaps to many other fans).
Score: 9,5/10 :cool:
This song is brilliant to me.
I was not a fan of the original, so I was curious to see what Meat and company would bring to the table, and I think they hit it out of the park on this one.
They were able to take something old and make it new again, and IMHO they made it better.
Love the vocals from both Meat and Patti, and also love the fact that Dave Luther really gets to shine on this track.
10/10 from me.
This song is brilliant to me.
I was not a fan of the original, so I was curious to see what Meat and company would bring to the table, and I think they hit it out of the park on this one.
They were able to take something old and make it new again, and IMHO they made it better.
Love the vocals from both Meat and Patti, and also love the fact that Dave Luther really gets to shine on this track.
10/10 from me.
Brilliant to me also :-) I quite liked the original, loved Mama Cass's voice, but it always had a sadness about it which I couldn't quite put my finger on. Meat brought out the deeper meaning to it imo, and gave it a new strength. Vocals are perfect, love the mournfully wistful sax, and it's a solid 10 from me :-)
Caryl
Meat's voice doesn't fit on it.
Voice does, style of singing doesn't. Unfortunately it conceals features of the voice that would have suited the song perfectly.
- Saxophone is a brilliant idea.
The Beach Boys did that before but their approach to the song was different. On Meat Loaf's version it is an integral part of the atmosphere. I like the fact that his take on California Dreamin' appears slower and darker, almost spooky. All in all a very good cover, although Meat Loaf's vocals on it are not my cup of tea for the most part.
This song is brilliant to me.
I was not a fan of the original, so I was curious to see what Meat and company would bring to the table, and I think they hit it out of the park on this one.
They were able to take something old and make it new again, and IMHO they made it better.
Love the vocals from both Meat and Patti, and also love the fact that Dave Luther really gets to shine on this track.
10/10 from me.
:up: It's one of my favorite tracks on the CD.
10/10 from me :-)
[QUOTE=Meat Loaf_fan;569958]
Meat's voice is perfect now :up: ... at least to me (and perhaps to many other fans).
yes, i love meat's voice and ever loved it :D
This song is brilliant to me.
I was not a fan of the original, so I was curious to see what Meat and company would bring to the table, and I think they hit it out of the park on this one.
They were able to take something old and make it new again, and IMHO they made it better.
Love the vocals from both Meat and Patti, and also love the fact that Dave Luther really gets to shine on this track.
10/10 from me.
i absolutely agree, imo meat's version is much better than the original ... take a look at the lyrics ...
take a look at the lyrics ...
As far as I recall they only differ from each other with regard to one word. Meat Loaf sings "began to pray" instead of "pretend to pray". The original line is more interesting, in my opinion.
White of high : Is there 1 song that you DO like on that album ?????? California dreamin', Meat and Patti's version is awesome, they bring out the true meaning of that song.
So again... it deserves a 10 to me !!
White of high : Is there 1 song that you DO like on that album ?????? California dreamin', Meat and Patti's version is awesome, they bring out the true meaning of that song.
So again... it deserves a 10 to me !!
White of High tends to seemingly not like anything that isn't the Meat/Jim combo.
Some people just can't handle the new direction
Julie in the rv mirror
13 May 2012, 04:03
I'll admit I wasn't very fond of it on first listen, but it grew on me over time. It's a solid "like" for me.
This song is brilliant to me.
I was not a fan of the original, so I was curious to see what Meat and company would bring to the table, and I think they hit it out of the park on this one.
They were able to take something old and make it new again, and IMHO they made it better.
Love the vocals from both Meat and Patti, and also love the fact that Dave Luther really gets to shine on this track.
10/10 from me.
Totally agree - I think the new arrangement is BRILLIANT!
10/10
Elijah's way
13 May 2012, 07:15
Love tihs cover!!! IMO this song is Meat's best cover of a well known song and it's the best song on the album and his best vocal on the album. The production is AMAZING on this song.
10/10 :up:
TheDoode
13 May 2012, 13:06
7.5
I think what Meat's done with the track is awesome. It's a song about depression, and it really comes through with this version, especially given the broken, haunted tone they've gone for. The only thing that bothers me - I wish Meat would've used a more restrained vocal, particularly at the beginning. But hey, that's just me.
White of High tends to seemingly not like anything that isn't the Meat/Jim combo.
To be fair he has rated some non-Steinman songs as high as 8 and above .. even HCTB's Song of Madness rated in the nines I think. But songs seem to need a Steinman/Bat style to get real approval, and you're right imo that Meat's new style seems to have limited appeal. He has also despaired of those of us who rate anything 10 ;)
For me, if I thoroughly enjoy listening to a song and would not have it changed, it works perfectly and meets all my requirements .. so why should I not say so? I personally find grading systems will always encourage some people to never give full marks, and have never understood this. As for eg when I ask managers who have graded a piece of work 9 out of 10 what could be done or changed to improve it, they say .. "Nothing. Its great. But I never give 10s" :lol:
I do ;)
Caryl
White of High
13 May 2012, 17:42
White of high : Is there 1 song that you DO like on that album ??????
I like a few songs. I think The Giving Tree and Live Or Die are nice songs but I could imagine better performance, better production of them. My main problem is Meat's raw voice in most of the songs and the simple 3-chords music.
HIAHB is the only album of Meat has no great songs to me. The entire album is average to me with a few very bad attempts. On HCTB I loved Song Of Madness, on Bat3 I loved Land Of The Pigs, on CHSIB I loved the title song, etc.
Answer to CarylB... I think give 10 to all songs is folly. Is Burning Down 10 to you? Or Wolf At Your Door, or Do It! is really 10 and good as For Crying Out Loud with big orchestra? I think lot of fan give10 because a fan has to give 10 to all songs of her/his idol. Fans control idols and if you don't criticize your idol you dig his tomb...
Answer to CarylB... I think give 10 to all songs is folly.
No more folly in my view than to never rate anything a 10.
I did not say I give all songs 10, I said that for me, if I thoroughly enjoy listening to a song and would not have it changed, it works perfectly and meets all my requirements .. When that is the case I rate 10.
Is Burning Down 10 to you? Or Wolf At Your Door, or Do It! is really 10 and good as For Crying Out Loud with big orchestra?
I have not rated Burning Down, nor Wolf At Your Door. I did like Meat's version of Do It! very much indeed, and yes, would probably rate it a 10. For me it did exactly what it was meant to do. It does not, for me, have to be compared to FCOL with a big orchestra .. indeed, that would be folly to me, because it would immediately mean that many songs, however good or well delivered, might be rated lower in comparison rather than on their merits.
I do not compare songs. You don't see me posting what is my favourite track, or best track. Each has its place, its style, tempo and appeal. I consider them on how they appeal to me, not one against the other. I do not have "a favourite" Meat Loaf song .. except perhaps the one I'm listening to at any given time, because I enjoy hearing Meat sing, and value the effort that has gone into bringing it to me. This is even more the case for HCTB and HIAH, which to me are each a whole piece of work, with each song leading from and to the next, and that whole is greater than the sum of the parts. As was the case with CHSIB for me.
Ask me how I rate a song I will tell you, whether it is in accord with your view or not. Ask me to rate it in comparison to others and I will say that is generally impossible for me.
I think lot of fan give10 because a fan has to give 10 to all songs of her/his idol. Fans control idols and if you don't criticize your idol you dig his tomb...
I have no idea what other fans' motivations are. I don't think you rating a song 2 or 3 digs his tomb, nor would it were I to dismiss any song like that. It is not why I rate songs I am absolutely happy with and would not seek change or "improvement" 10. I don't often listen to BA, BBIS, MATLF or Stoney & Meat Loaf. This is not because they are full of "bad songs", merely that these do not grab me as strongly as others, but that's about personal taste not an unbiased rating on the quality of the work, and I can enjoy listening to all of them. But times change, the world moves on, musically as well as in all other ways, and I have moved with it, my taste has evolved with it. Meat's current style is to me exciting, and of today. It touches me, grabs my attention and excites me as I am today, just as BOOH did back in the 70s and 80s.
That he continues to creatively explore new styles, push against barriers and cross into new territory is to me far more exciting than if he stayed with the same style. To me that's what makes him special, enduring and the performer he is. I was stunned when I first heard HCTB; swept away just as I was when I first heard BOOH. HIAH strikes a chord with me in 2012 that BOOH probably couldn't, although it certainly did in 1978, and I still love to hear him sing those songs. CHSIB did the same when it came out; gone was the youthful angst, these were the songs of late summer, from the perspective of a man who has been around the block of love and back, with a maturity I loved. But that's how it should be imo, and for me it is. Over the years some of his explorations have not been as exciting as when BOOH was unleashed, but CHSIB was, and now HCTB and HIAH are for me .. in spades! He promised a new adventure, and for me he is delivering it 100% .. or 10 out of 10 ;)
Caryl
Is Burning Down 10 to you? Or Wolf At Your Door, or Do It! is really 10 and good as For Crying Out Loud with big orchestra?
Art is subjective...there is no "right" or "wrong" only what appeals to the consumer. Wolf At Your Door is a spectacular song with a cunning message. To me and my ear, it is quite a remarkable piece. For Crying Out Loud is a remarkable piece as well, but the orchestra does not drive it over the top. It is the passion of Meat Loaf's voice. It does not take overdone and drawn out production to make a great song to my ear, it may to yours.
I think give 10 to all songs is folly.
I agree with you on this. If all songs are a 10 to you then you can't be objective. No matter who you are.
As for low or high ratings. It's very personal. Either you love, for example, the Steinman/Loaf combination so much that other songs have a hard time to match that, or you love the way that Meat has chosen a new direction. Away from his older style.
There is no wrong or right in giving high or low grates. Although I believe that giving 1's or 10's is always over the top.
With a 1 you're basically saying that NOTHING is right about a song.
With a 10 you're saying "This is PERFRECT" and can't be improved in any way.
I doubt both ratings every time I see it. Then again, for one or two songs a rating like this could be possible. But ratings like that should be rare ;)
As far as I recall they only differ from each other with regard to one word. Meat Loaf sings "began to pray" instead of "pretend to pray". The original line is more interesting, in my opinion.
hi sarge,
i didn't mean that, but as meat says california dreaming is not a happy holiday song, ... it is about fear and someone not following his dreams ...
i meant the whole meaning of the song.
that's my point.
There is no wrong or right in giving high or low grates. Although I believe that giving 1's or 10's is always over the top.
Which is what I've heard so many managers say over the years .. and in effect it reduces the range used to 2-9 .. and if you make it a 2-9 scale they avoid giving nines! :lol:
With a 10 you're saying "This is PERFRECT" and can't be improved in any way.
And as I said, if I cannot see how it could be made better for ME, then for me it requires no improvement and 10 is what I give
But ratings like that should be rare ;)
And Meat is a rare performer in my view ;) BOOH was a landmark album and most of the songs I seem to recall got scores of 9+ :-) I'm not going to fiddle around with 9.6s, or 9.75s for the sake of avoiding 10 .. For me, HCTB and HIAH are landmark albums. So 10s seem just right :-)
Caryl
duke knooby
14 May 2012, 00:52
i've a quick question... why is this version of the song quite dark and moody?
i've a quick question... why is this version of the song quite dark and moody?
Because Meat said when he listened to the words he realised it wasn't a happy poppy song about going to California and lying in the sun, but a song about being scared to follow your dreams, and letting that fear prevent you from going for it. He's said quite a bit about this and John Phillips' depression etc, but that's the gist. Makes sense to me as I always felt the words were sombre and wistful, and there was an underlying sadness to the song that I couldn't quite put my finger on ... but fear of failure is a dark and moody place to be in I think, so the darker, sombre and hauntingly sad tone of Meat's version seems perfect to me
Caryl
i've a quick question... why is this version of the song quite dark and moody?
because that song is about fear and someone not following his dreams ...
[QUOTE=CarylB;570053]
how funny, caryl,
we wrote our answer exactly at the same time :D
you're absolutely right!!
duke knooby
14 May 2012, 01:15
obviously lyrics and their meanings are open to interpretation which is great, is it the bit where the preacher likes the cold, he knows i'm gonna stay... is that the bit???
obviously lyrics and their meanings are open to interpretation which is great, is it the bit where the preacher likes the cold, he knows i'm gonna stay... is that the bit???
I think that's the clincher, and puts all the other darker words into the overall context. So much of the song is about dreaming but not following that dream through, and those few words "he knows I'm gonna stay" are the admission that he knows he won't have the courage to conquer his fear and take that road.
Caryl
hi sarge,
[...]
i meant the whole meaning of the song.
Thank you for clearing that up. But if Meat Loaf was the one who understood the presumably true meaning of the lyrics why did he change them?
:??::??::??:
Interesting... I just heard a couple of other versions and apparently the "began to pray" doesn't trace back to Meat Loaf. A couple of other artists did that before, would be interesting to know who sang "began/begin to pray" first.
obviously lyrics and their meanings are open to interpretation which is great, is it the bit where the preacher likes the cold, he knows i'm gonna stay... is that the bit???
the first thing is "and the sky is gray"
Thank you for clearing that up. But if Meat Loaf was the one who understood the presumably true meaning of the lyrics why did he change them?
:??::??::??:
you're welcome. but i don't know anything about the pretend / began - change ...
Since Meat Loaf referred to John Phillips when talking about his take on the song, it kind of confuses me that he used a line I have never heard The Mamas & The Papas sing. Could it be possible that someone else's version influenced his or is there a recording of The Mamas & The Papas / John Phillips singing these lyrics that I don't know of yet? There are artists who have sung both variants of the lyrics.
glamourgirl
14 May 2012, 19:16
:up: It's one of my favorite tracks on the CD.
10/10 from me :-)
Same for me and I never even liked the original. This version is brilliant!
Since Meat Loaf referred to John Phillips when talking about his take on the song, it kind of confuses me that he used a line I have never heard The Mamas & The Papas sing. Could it be possible that someone else's version influenced his or is there a recording of The Mamas & The Papas / John Phillips singing these lyrics that I don't know of yet? There are artists who have sung both variants of the lyrics.
It doesn't me .. Meat's bent for depth of research would suggest to me he'd probably listen to many versions before he felt he really had a deep understanding of it and deciding how he would want to take and use a song.
This isn't a man who waits for songs to be delivered to him and records them .. it's someone who uses anything written for him, or that he finds, as a starting point, and who has a continuing desire for exploring music, understanding it, and then putting his own creative stamp on everything he does. He searches, he researches, he waits to find what he knows will be right for an album. I remember him saying how long it took him to find the close for CHSIB .. also a cover, but one which when he found it had exactly the message he wanted to convey to all his fans.
Caryl
[QUOTE=CarylB;570079]
This isn't a man who waits for songs to be delivered to him and records them .. it's someone who uses anything written for him, or that he finds, as a starting point, and who has a continuing desire for exploring music, understanding it, and then putting his own creative stamp on everything he does. He searches, he researches, he waits to find what he knows will be right for an album. I remember him saying how long it took him to find the close for CHSIB .. also a cover, but one which when he found it had exactly the message he wanted to convey to all his fans.
agree absolutelely. good point. :D
Caryl, as usual you put a lot of effort in explaining Meat Loaf's intentions and way of working but that doesn't answer my question. And why did he opt for the obvious? That's the first thing you associate a church with: Praying. What's interesting about the guy in the Mamas & Papas version (at least the one I know) is that he does not pray but only pretends to. Why does he do that? "Pretend to pray" works better, in my opinion, especially together with the line "the preacher likes the cold, he knows I'm gonna stay".
Caryl, as usual you put a lot of effort in explaining Meat Loaf's intentions and way of working but that doesn't answer my question. And why did he opt for the obvious?
I understood your question was "it kind of confuses me that he used a line I have never heard The Mamas & The Papas sing. Could it be possible that someone else's version influenced his", and responded to that ie I thought you were asking was it likely that Meat had listened to several versions, perhaps even some you have not heard. It didn't take a lot of effort btw (and there seems oddly to be almost an implied negative in your opening sentence). I find it easy to articulate my thoughts.
As to why Meat opted for what you describe as the obvious, you'd need to ask him.
Caryl
Caryl, as usual you put a lot of effort in explaining Meat Loaf's intentions and way of working but that doesn't answer my question. And why did he opt for the obvious?
I understood your question was "it kind of confuses me that he used a line I have never heard The Mamas & The Papas sing. Could it be possible that someone else's version influenced his", and responded to that ie I thought you were asking was it likely that Meat had listened to several versions, perhaps even some you have not heard. It didn't take a lot of effort btw (and there seems oddly to be almost an implied negative in your opening sentence. I simply try to ensure what I post conveys my points with clarity and courtesy, which doesn't usually take a lot of effort or time). I find it easy to articulate my thoughts.
As to why Meat opted for what you describe as the obvious, you'd need to ask him.
Caryl
PanicLord
22 May 2012, 22:38
8 - a really interesting and far more dramatic take on a terrific song.
BostonAngel
22 May 2012, 22:51
ONe of my faves on the album. I have always really liked this song and I love Meat's interpretation of it. All of the sexy sax tones from David Luther on it also help to make it awesome for me. IT actually exceeded my expectations. Because of that I would even say an 11 - it is that good, to me. Would love to see this song performed live.
robgomm
23 May 2012, 11:33
Caryl, as usual you put a lot of effort in explaining Meat Loaf's intentions and way of working but that doesn't answer my question. And why did he opt for the obvious? That's the first thing you associate a church with: Praying. What's interesting about the guy in the Mamas & Papas version (at least the one I know) is that he does not pray but only pretends to. Why does he do that? "Pretend to pray" works better, in my opinion, especially together with the line "the preacher likes the cold, he knows I'm gonna stay".
Who cares? Really I mean whose bothered over why he chose to use one word over another? Doesn't change the song significantly does it? Pointless discussion.
Who made you a mod?
Excuuuuuse that I'm interested in music and bother to pay attention to what Meat Loaf says in interviews. Apparently you missed his statements regarding the meaning of the song and what he thought John Philips was trying to express with it. Why is it wrong to contemplate the lyrics in that context?
If you're not "bothered over" the same things as me, fine, but don't tell me what I'm allowed to say or not to say!
If you can't discuss music on a forum dedicated to a singer and that very singer's work without other members arrogantly dismissing your thoughts as "pointless", this forum is pointless.
Some people are obviously eager to look for a pretext to start a fight whenever possible and think that opinions that aren't in accordance with their own or issues they are not interested in are worthless and shouldn't be posted here. It wouldn't bother me if robgomm's post was an isolated case but it has become a pattern. (Recently someone was even attacked for discussing another artist in - guess where - the off topic section. :roll:) I'm getting the feeling that some people are not really interested in exchanging ideas on their common (???) interest. They seem to be more keen on telling other people that they are "wrong". There are a couple of members who contribute interesting posts which I usually enjoy reading but the wranglers are beginning to void what once attracted me to this place.
Sorry mods, but I'm pissed off by the behavior of some people. :down: This forum used to be a nice place but participating in it has become exhausting.
Back to topic. I assume it's a waste of time because I suspect that robgomm is not really interested in his own question (in that respect he's right - it is a "pointless discussion") and I hate to repeat myself but I'll try to answer it anyway.
Doesn't change the song significantly does it?
It does change the song. It's just one word but it changes the content because the motivation of the character to enter the church might be different. The "preacher/cold/stay" line that follows makes more sense to me in the "pretend to pray" version.
olblueeyes
23 May 2012, 15:57
Sarge, I do agree with your thoughts here. Not really appropriate for anyone to comment that a discussion point is pointless. I, for one, don't have a strong opinion on the pretend/began choice but I acknowledge that there are some key differences between the two. Since Meat has made reference to the meaning of the song in his interviews I think it's a valid discussion.
Surely if anyone feels it to be pointless 'tis better to simply not post on the subject. If I were in a pub and someone came over to join a conversation and said what we were talking about was pointless, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be too enamoured at them. Can't we all just behave like we're in a local pub and have a bit of decorum?
Alan
Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner
Can't we all just behave like we're in a local pub [...]
Where's the beer? :D
robgomm
23 May 2012, 18:04
I do apologise to all offended. Of course you have the right to discuss this. I just wrongly thought that you was trying to argue with Caryl about it and arguing over one word in a song is daft. However I realise you were just trying to have a discussion so I apologise.
Let's forget about it. :cheers: I'm sorry for getting angry at you. I didn't try to argue with Caryl, we just focus on different things when discussing Meat Loaf. ;)
10
See "Another Day" for explanation
chairboys
24 May 2012, 13:48
10
See "Another Day" for explanation
was this your red herring? ;)
No, nothing fishy here at all :) I just didn't want to repeat that long thing ad nauseum in each of 12 posts.
10 for me. I like the original Mama & Poppa's version of the song ... but IMO Meat captured the true meaning of the song brilliantly and made it his own. My second favorite track of the CD, and one that I would love to hear him sing live at some point :-)
chairboys
24 May 2012, 17:45
No, nothing fishy here at all :) I just didn't want to repeat that long thing ad nauseum in each of 12 posts.
just you put another day instead of all of me!
Cherry.Loaf
25 May 2012, 11:06
10/1o for me I love it and it makes me just want to sit back in a comfy chair and enjoy the song
ShelbyLee
25 May 2012, 17:22
10 for me too. The artistry is amazing.
The Flying Mouse
27 May 2012, 21:14
:twisted: I think this sounds a little too psychedelic at the start.
It sounds like something from Hair :shock:
Still, it gets much better 8)
Great backing vocal from Patti, and awesome sax work :metal: .
I'd give this a 7
White of High
05 Jun 2012, 23:29
Average: 8.63 (164/19)
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