16 Apr 2012, 19:53 | #126 |
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16 Apr 2012, 19:54 | #127 |
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16 Apr 2012, 20:07 | #128 | |||||
Armed ba$tard and Jo's other half.
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But that said, whose choice is it wether to school the child within a religion? The parents (i'm assuming) and not the childs. Guess kids don't get to have much of a break when it comes to freedom of choice where religion is concerned Quote:
There are nutters that support the Koran, but does that mean that everyone who supports the Koran is a nutter? As for the consitution, like many laws of many lands, the law IMHO is an ass without enough common sence. Quote:
I agree that it's wrong to base all government policies on religion. But that will be done wether there is a banner on a wall or not. No ammount or lack of religious argument is going stop a woman who believes abortion to be a sin voting for the guy who stands up and says abolish abortion. Quote:
For someone who never expected to have any strong opinion (and even though i'm discussing it a lot, and thinking about it, I don't think my opinion is strong ) i'm spending a lot of time on the issue. I was thinking about this last night walking the dog, and I was thinking that is Christianity an easy target? Or at least the easiest target. In the West we seem to be able to support everybodys views and religions, except the one that is native to us. We seem so afraid to offend, we are afraid to say anything about other religions, and have very little to say in support of our own nations religion and are often quite comfortable bashing it. For instance, every December here in Liverpool a menorah is erected outside St George's Hall for Hanukkah. St George's Hall is a civic building (bearing the name of a saint, a Christian device I belive ) yet every year a large Jewish religious sign is placed outside. Should that offend or displease me? Would it offend or displease an athiest? If not, why not? It's religious isn't it? I think if anybody tried to campaign against the menorah they would be slammed as an anti semite rather than be taken at face value. If it were a muslim device that was being petitioned against, forget it So why is it that Christianity, the religion of our our own people (for lack of a better phrase right now) the one that is the easy target? This must be the longest convo i've had on religion in my life |
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16 Apr 2012, 20:09 | #129 |
Armed ba$tard and Jo's other half.
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16 Apr 2012, 21:47 | #130 |
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Flying Mouse, in light of the possibility of you entering politics full-time, may I suggest you stand as an MP for Bradford West at the next election.
I reckon you would give Gorgeous George a run for his money! |
16 Apr 2012, 22:05 | #131 |
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How on earth did that cat cream licking idiot get elected?
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16 Apr 2012, 22:07 | #132 | |
Armed ba$tard and Jo's other half.
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Is he skilled with a lightsaber and would make a worthy opponent? Or is it more political/religious (i've no idea what he stands for). |
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16 Apr 2012, 22:10 | #133 | |
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16 Apr 2012, 22:34 | #134 | |
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16 Apr 2012, 23:18 | #135 | |||||
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Religion has NO PLACE in the government. Or in schools, where you learn things which have value (which religion has none). And I agree, children DON'T have a choice of freedom of Religion. Every child is born an Atheist and parents brainwash them into believing. That's where recoveringfromreligion.org comes in. Quote:
And I don't agree about what you say about the constitution. Quote:
Also, if there is no religion, how can there be sin? Does not compute. Quote:
It just so happens that Christianity is the biggest problem in the US. I find that Muslims don't insist upon themselves as much. Same with most other religions. Therefore it's worth speaking out against. I think that all religions are equally dumb. Quote:
Offense is not the word. More like head-shaking befuddlement. |
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16 Apr 2012, 23:47 | #136 | ||||||
Armed ba$tard and Jo's other half.
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OK, i'll go round one more time, then i'm leaving it alone
Been an interesting convo though Quote:
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Something the members of mlukfc can identify with at times We'll agree to disagree on that. My proof that the legal proffession is nuts at base level is Australia. The English find a paradise. A vast sun soaked land with golden beaches and set in a sea of the deepest blue. And what did we do? We sent our convicts there while we stayed on our little rain swept rock. If any lawyer at that time was even half witted, he'd have said let's go over there and leave the convicts behind. Nothing since then has given me any more confidence in the legal system. Quote:
A woman whose religious beliefs forbid abortion is more likely to agree with (and therefore vote for) a candidate who will ban abortion than someone who doesn't share her views. No banner needed, just listen to the candidate make a speech to see what their views are. And if you want to stop the use of the word "God" in speeches, I think you are very close to impeding freedom of speech. Ergo, there is no reasonable or practical way to keep religion 100% out of politics. Quote:
But I still think you'd have a lot more opposition and stigma as a racist or religious hater if you took on a petition concerning a different religion. Quote:
Again, it just seems that the closer something is to our national identity, the more we fear that it will upset others. I don't think people in this country would have a problem with athiests speaking out against Chrisianity, but I think their motives would be misunderstood if it were another religion being targeted at any particular time. Anyway, i've had my say, you've had yours, and we are never going to agree. Been an interesting chat though |
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17 Apr 2012, 09:31 | #137 |
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Ok so I posted this with a quote, but it didn't seem to work...
Rob and I are like qui gon & obi wan...... I am obi wan |
17 Apr 2012, 12:50 | #138 | |
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Like you I see no reason to avoid celebrating Christmas, but I respect the right of others to celebrate Divaldi, or whatever their religious beliefs dictate. Accepting, respecting and welcoming diversity is imo the way forward. That's why I believe it's right that in state schools here children learn about a wide range of different creeds. Whether I hold any religious beliefs or not, there are many in our society who do, many religions are tied strongly to culture, and understanding different cultures is important in a multi-cultural society in my view. How far that happens in private schools (which as you say are expensive) is I suspect questionable, and it probably would not happen in home schooling (which always concerns me, as in my view children who are home schooled will generally be limited to the knowledge of their parents, and their education limited by their parents' beliefs, values and constructs .. and in some cases their prejudices). Caryl |
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17 Apr 2012, 16:09 | #139 |
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17 Apr 2012, 18:31 | #140 |
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In America, where this case is based, you receive a tax break if you home school and you can choose to credit your tax dollars to a private school, if it meets certain criteria - therefore, lowering your tuition rates.
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17 Apr 2012, 19:15 | #141 | |
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Yes, I would have expected that. You seem to be able to claim many more things against tax than we do in the UK .. although I was supporting Mouse's point that private education is generally costly, and is costly here. It doesn't alter my grave reservations about home schooling though, which are not based on cost but on limitation. I would think that someone who chose to home school in order to educate their child in their beliefs would be less likely to educate them in the beliefs of others, and still have concerns that their education would be limited to and by the parents' knowledge, experience, values and constructs. It's of particular concern in the UK where home educated children do not have to follow the national curriculum or take tests, and do not even have to register or have the level of education inspected and assessed. Because of that they don't even know how many children are being home schooled, the estimates ranging between 7.5 and 34.5 thousand, and the most common reason given is bullying at school .. another sad indictment on the state of play these days. Caryl Last edited by CarylB; 17 Apr 2012 at 19:21. |
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18 Apr 2012, 04:21 | #142 |
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18 Apr 2012, 04:38 | #143 | ||
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A big reason (besides all the other reasons) why it should not be allowed in schools. Quote:
I think that the MOST important thing about School is the Socializing aspect. You learn how to deal with people and it's where you start becoming the person you are today. You learn about different cultures and people in the melting pot that is The United States and many other countries. That is a big reason why I don't believe that it's right for any public school to endorse a religion. It makes sense that the majority would want it that banner up because the US about 80% Christian and even the rational are polarized by the nut jobs. As I said earlier, in the grand scheme of things this is nothing significant. It's a small victory for the rational thinkers of the United States. |
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18 Apr 2012, 08:45 | #144 |
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Ah, so you're more like a non-practicing Jedi then Rob!
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18 Apr 2012, 10:25 | #145 |
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18 Apr 2012, 14:48 | #146 |
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18 Apr 2012, 15:00 | #147 | |
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S ... xo |
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18 Apr 2012, 16:54 | #148 | |
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18 Apr 2012, 17:01 | #149 |
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for what its worth I went to a private school in belfast, every morning in assembly we had morning prayers by the school chaplain, by no means was it a religious school but it practiced christian morals. We even had 2 classes for R.E, a moral one and a biblical one.
But yes, what im getting at is there were some student who would be considered an ethnic minority, particularly in an all boys school in belfast. But during the R.E lessons that didnt stop the teacher from inquiring about his muslim beliefs on the various different aspects being studied. It also allowed the students to have a broader understanding, but not once did he feel intimidated in a school where every morning the lords prayer was said and each week he'd have to attend a biblical class. Sometimes i think people just like to make a fuss. Like the whole atheist vs christian thing, why cant either side just agree to disagree. Instead it becomes nasty and spiteful. just my 2 pence. (because we dont use cents). Dunno if its applicable, but hey, it came out. |
18 Apr 2012, 17:56 | #150 | |
Armed ba$tard and Jo's other half.
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You mean like rebel scum? *PPPPPPSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH* <------- you've had it now Seriouly though Sue, it's not for me to second guess your daughters parental choices, but I too think children should have the social opportunity to mix with their peers. I hope your grandson at least gets some social time with others when his lessons are done for the day. Quote:
On this thread you can see a rather long conversation between Evil Ernie and myself. Two different points of view, but we both spoke our minds in a frank and non agressive manner, and, as you said, I believe we've agreed to disagree. Perhaps it was because on my part there are no strong feelings on the matter, I certainly don't feel personaly invested (even though I believe my point of view makes sense), that stopped our exchange from becoming heated. It's when people go from speaking their minds and sharing their opinions to trying to change other peoples opinions, or telling them that they are wrong, that's when they are more likely to dig in and push back just as hard. |
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