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Old 03 Mar 2020, 09:41   #126
ThatWriterGuy
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Originally Posted by aks650 View Post
Ghosts in the moon song sounds fantastic!! Thanks very much for that, I shall listen some more tomorrow.

Adam
Be sure to check out The Story Ain't Over, and Mystery of a Blood Red Rose, too. I used to know Tobi back in the early 00s. We met at a gig in ... Derbyshire, I think? Some years later we came close to working on a TV project together (we'd worked out an edit of his song Superheroes for the theme). Seems like a long time ago these days.
Great days.
Great fun.
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Old 03 Mar 2020, 12:37   #127
jcmoorehead
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Be sure to check out The Story Ain't Over, and Mystery of a Blood Red Rose, too. I used to know Tobi back in the early 00s. We met at a gig in ... Derbyshire, I think? Some years later we came close to working on a TV project together (we'd worked out an edit of his song Superheroes for the theme). Seems like a long time ago these days.
Great days.
Great fun.
Not quite on the Jim/Meat influence side of things but anyone listening to Avantasia absolutely has to check out the Ayreon projects as well by Arjen Lucassen. Tobias is on the latest one (The Source) and I believe Arjen has a guitar solo or such on one of the latest Avantasia's too.
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Old 03 Mar 2020, 14:00   #128
loaferman61
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My understanding is that "Mystery of a Blood Red Rose" was the song Meat's "people" passed on. Not Tobias' greatest song but having the 2 work together could have opened some doors. I have little faith the 2 will ever work together, although Tobias gets the Steinman style without being a copycat. If we get any new recordings I feel certain they will be done much like BTWA. Probably Meat and Paul producing and tailoring it to Meat's current voice. To me BTWA was fine for the vocals Meat was capable of at the time, hopefully once he recovers to full health they can get a little more bombastic. Even without Jim, his songs just cry out to be filled with thundering piano, booming drums and epic choir like backing vocals.
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Old 03 Mar 2020, 14:16   #129
letsgotoofar
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I agree, loaferman61, that comparisons will be inevitable whether we like it or not, but can't we avoid making it easier for them to be made?
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Old 03 Mar 2020, 16:00   #130
ThatWriterGuy
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My understanding is that "Mystery of a Blood Red Rose" was the song Meat's "people" passed on.
Tobi originally wanted Meat on 2007's The Story Ain't Over. As you rightly mentioned, he tried again with Blood Red Rose.
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Old 03 Mar 2020, 19:10   #131
loaferman61
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I agree, loaferman61, that comparisons will be inevitable whether we like it or not, but can't we avoid making it easier for them to be made?
I don't know how we can. That is up to Meat and the crew. Honestly I think if Meat does another 10 albums they are inevitably be compared to "Bat". You don't even hear many comparisons to "Bat 2" and that was a huge hit itself.

Some of the BTWA reviews were brutal, far worse than it deserved but turn on the radio and hear the garbage they play over-and-over and this is the stuff they judge (critics and the general public) to be "good". I don't think Meat has ever worried about changing to please them, but in a lot of interviews he hits back at critics so obviously he pays attention to them.
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Old 04 Mar 2020, 08:11   #132
Wario
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braver did deserve the reviews it got. I love meat but the vocals were not up to par. it felt like a live album without any dubs

also my understanding is Meat declined blood red rose due to health right?
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Old 04 Mar 2020, 11:35   #133
jcmoorehead
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braver did deserve the reviews it got. I love meat but the vocals were not up to par. it felt like a live album without any dubs

also my understanding is Meat declined blood red rose due to health right?
From what I understand, the song didn't even reach him. Was immediately shut down by his management? Not 100% sure though.
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Old 06 Mar 2020, 14:10   #134
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I understand why the management threw it out. The lyrics are pants. The guy has got an amazing voice but the songs are all style. The melodies are rudimentary and the messages are cliche. Everything that Meat's music isn't.
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Old 06 Mar 2020, 14:39   #135
loaferman61
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I understand why the management threw it out. The lyrics are pants. The guy has got an amazing voice but the songs are all style. The melodies are rudimentary and the messages are cliche. Everything that Meat's music isn't.
Not that I ever expect him to work with Meat, but his style is the closest to Steinman I have heard without being sheer imitation. With Meat asking if we would buy 4 or 5 "new" songs and a demo makes me think he wants to do an all Steinman album. Jim possibly doesn't have much left that is usable and most of it is probably many years old. I'm ok with demos, but I would rather they give some other songs a chance. Most of us have heard "Unsaid" and "Decadent Wish" and those were supposed to be on CHSIB album I think.

There must be something else we could get that would be "new" even if it is stuff we uber-fans may have heard. Demos seem like filler to me. They would be interesting and I'd but it for the new songs. Hearing Meat sing "Body" makes it worth purchasing just for that.
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Old 06 Mar 2020, 16:53   #136
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I love Avantasia's music, presentation and music style but I agree the lyrics wouldn't suit Meat.

But I also think "Next time you stab me in the back you better do it to my face" and "If God Could Talk" don't suit Meat either.
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Old 06 Mar 2020, 19:31   #137
loaferman61
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I love Avantasia's music, presentation and music style but I agree the lyrics wouldn't suit Meat.

But I also think "Next time you stab me in the back you better do it to my face" and "If God Could Talk" don't suit Meat either.
True. I was thinking about who could work with Meat to get a different result than the production on BTWA. I understand they had to deal with Meat's voice at the time and not overwhelming it, but I miss the more typical Steinman style of going over the top. Being understated was OK for one album but for me it needs more bombast (not cowbell in this case).
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Old 06 Mar 2020, 20:39   #138
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True. I was thinking about who could work with Meat to get a different result than the production on BTWA. I understand they had to deal with Meat's voice at the time and not overwhelming it, but I miss the more typical Steinman style of going over the top. Being understated was OK for one album but for me it needs more bombast (not cowbell in this case).
I think we need someone new to work with Meat. I'd love it if Paul was still involved heavily. But look at Ozzy's new album. They were able to bring so much out of him as an artist by surrounding him with the right team. The youthful energy is great. They used Post Malone's producer and team. He's a young artist I didn't know about until the collaboration occurred.

If Meat's voice has recovered as much as he says it has (I have no reason to doubt that), then I think he could benefit from others doing the heavy lifting and injection of some youthful energy into the equation.
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