Marketing 101

[Julie in the rv mirror]

I wasn't sure if I should put this thread here or in the the general Off Topic section, so Mods please move it if you see fit.

I'm starting this thread to continue the discussion that started in this thread. While it started in regards to comparing the marketing of Bruce Springsteen to that of Meat, please feel free to talk about any artist as long as it pertains to the subject. Discuss by all means, but please play nice.

I'm going to start by responding to stretch's comment here.

Originally Posted by stretch37

Hitting #1 on itunes and amazon proves that record companies will market the "old guys". He had a week on Jimmy Fallon and has had tons of promo as well as great branding. The album is good - but no more good than Meat Loaf's album. I'd say HIAH and HCTB are greater achievements at this stage in Meat's career than Wrecking Ball is for Bruce in terms of his performance, NOT and i repeat NOT the quality of the songs.

So I think this should end the debate on whether or not the record companies will shell out for the senior most artists....they will...they just need to spend more on Meat because he is worth every penny.

Regarding the Fallon appearances, Bruce wasn't on for the whole week, he was on 2 nights. The other three nights had other artists covering his songs, and that was it. Jimmy is a big Bruce fan, but he's done this for other artists in the past, so this wasn't a unique situation. Jimmy's show is also a late-night program (it's on at 11:35 or 12:35 at night, depending on the time zone), and while I don't know exact ratings figures, I'm sure not nearly as many people watch it as watch The Tonight Show with Jay Leno, for instance. In addition, Bruce's appearances on the show were sponsored by Budweiser, so it's not Sony putting up the money in that case.

In terms of other promo, I have honestly seen very little except for online, and I'm sure that's mostly because it's the targeted type of advertising that you get based on the sites you visit. People in other parts of the country have said they've seen TV ads, but I haven't seen any. I have seen more promo for this album than the last, but I disagree with the "tons" part, at least where I live.

Regardless, Sony has a vested interest in Promoting Bruce's album because they gave him a very large dollar contract a few years ago, and I'm sure they want to recoup their money. They also want to keep the back catalog, as there are many potential sales there as well.

Whether one album is "better" than than the other is a matter of opinion. From the record company's view, it's all about the Benjamins; in other words, they are going to invest the dollars where they're going to get the most return.

So, the question is: how does one market an "old guy", given how the music industry has changed?

[nikox1]

good question? well of course there are so many reasons why something does not sell as it should. how to markket Meat Loaf imo, comes down to 3 steps. 1. record companys just want to make money at the end of the day, so they usually dont care what an album sounds like? , so to market Meat i think you need to reach out to the fans, the internet is a very powerful tool if used correctly. by reaching out i mean 6 months prior to release start building momentum, on the main sites like facebook,my space, twitter, on here and on .net. like a blank page and each day a small segment gets removed to finally reveal the title and album cover of the new record. or let the fans design the album cover? Meat picks the winner, or the best title wins? or even let the fans send in there lyrics and Meat could record it and even put it on as a bonus song at the end. it gets fans interested, bring them in, let them get involved.
2. release a promo video fairly early, not exactly a video as such, but again maybe a little clip each week to eventually reveal the content. release it everywhere near enough the same time, Meat could promote it around the world a month before it comes out, that way it avoids another staggered release. when you buy the album, theres a code in side the sleeve, and when you go to hes facebook, mlukfc, etc etc,, pages you type in the code and get 2 - 3 exclusive new tracks not on the album. buy the album and get a free concert ticket for an exclusive live Meaty show, obviously one winning ticket in every 250 sold or something.
3. as well as the new tracks that will be on any new album, record a few of them and remix them for the dancefloors, 1 or 2 of the more catchy songs remixed really well. on holidays, night clubs, nights out, people remember the songs they hear, it could just widen the appeal. a novelty as such, but radio could also just pick it up just out of interest. try and get a new meaty song to be a soundtrack to a big film, pitch it!!! worth ago. other novelty things such as meat loaf ringtones, free with every itunes download. an autograph with every download etc etc,,

IMO, reach out and get the fans involed as much as possible, move with the times.

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by nikox1

IMO, reach out and get the fans involed as much as possible, move with the times.

You have some good ideas, although I think many of them cater to those who are already more dedicated fans, thus are people who would buy the album anyway. How do you draw in the casual or new fan?

I agree that the internet can be a powerful tool if used correctly. I agree that the staggered release in regards to HIAHB probably diluted the excitement and "buzz" that a new record creates in the fanbase, and thus spreads across the net.

"Wrecking Ball", for instance, was floating around the net for at least two weeks before it's release, that I know of, and that's not including "official" previews or streaming tracks. Sometimes, things are "leaked" on purpose to get people talking and sharing; word of mouth is a powerful marketing tool. I think artists today know that people download music for free anyway, they might as well take advantage of the fact. (This in no way means I'm suggesting that it's OK to just download music and not pay for it at all)

Now, let's put the internet aside for now. Lots of people from an older demographic don't spend time online or download music. How to reach those people? Radio used to be probably the biggest factor in music sales, until MTV came along, and now even that has changed. So, now what?

Also, you talked about an artist's image, whether they are perceived as "cool and hip"; what do you think it takes to maintain or regain that image?

Here's an interesting article that talks about this subject:

http://www.avclub.com/articles/pays-...en-busi,70462/

[nikox1]

interesting read, thanks. i think alot of my ideas covered most ages?, well alot of what i covered could be done by Meat and hes crew as such. not depending too much on the label. word of mouth is a powerful tool of course, radio is vital also. but i believe that you can start at ground level, reaching out to the fans of all ages, not just through internet,media etc etc,, but 6 months before anything is released = an underground movement as such. how many flyers [ yes flyers ] could you print and distribute for say the price of tv commercials that the record companys wont pay for. in all major citys, even if you reached 1 fan in every 5,000 homes? as for building up the image, well hes loved by hes fans, to the casual buyer hes the big man with the big voice and he sings big songs!!!!! go back to basics, hes new direction is great and im glad hes enjoying it also. but i guess from a commercial sense people want the power ballads. hey, just put a bat in the title,, a major viral campaign as such, send out testers to radio stations well before any release, see will they play something. make a song that will be made for radio play only, something really left field.

[Julie in the rv mirror]

It sounds like you're advocating that the fans do the bulk of the work; isn't it the artist's (i.e. their "people") and/ or the label's job? Fans can help of course, but why should it be up to the fans?

[JennaG]

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

It sounds like you're advocating that the fans do the bulk of the work; isn't it the artist's (i.e. their "people") and/ or the label's job? Fans can help of course, but why should it be up to the fans?

I totally agree. Fans can help get word out about an album's release but it shouldn't be our job. The record company and the artist's 'people' are paid to work for artists, promoting albums etc, we are not.

[Evil One]

Originally Posted by Skybird14

The record company and the artist's 'people' are paid to work for artists, promoting albums etc, we are not.

Indeed.

[nikox1]

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

It sounds like you're advocating that the fans do the bulk of the work; isn't it the artist's (i.e. their "people") and/ or the label's job? Fans can help of course, but why should it be up to the fans?

im not saying the fans need to do anything. there are companys paid to distribute such things. im saying get the fans involved more, get them interested again, deisign the new album cover, decide the title of the next album etc etc,, come up with something new and original [ well new for Meat anyway ]. he has a close bond with hes fands, bring it even closer imo.

[nikox1]

can everybody read what i say please,, i never said the fans need to distribute flyers? i said they could go back to primitive methods, as they dont seem to want to pay for videos and tv adverts, pay professionals to distribute the old fashion flyer. it will reach most homes, finding the fans, just the way dominos pizza find their customers etc etc,, that way fans that dont watch tv, that dont surf the web etc etc,, will at least know of its existence? bring people back, now from an artistic point of view its up to Meat what direction he wants to take of course, style of song and the way its produced. but imagine a big online competition that fans design the cover or pick the title, or as i said above send in the lyrics of a song? concert tickets inside a certain amount of cd covers, there are people who would maybe buy more than one album to try and win one [ willie wonka,s golden ticket as such]

[JennaG]

Originally Posted by nikox1

im not saying the fans need to do anything. there are companys paid to distribute such things. im saying get the fans involved more, get them interested again, deisign the new album cover, decide the title of the next album etc etc,, come up with something new and original [ well new for Meat anyway ]. he has a close bond with hes fands, bring it even closer imo.

I can see where you're coming from but the fans that will be willing to participate in things like that are only a small minority when you think about how many fans Meat has all over the world.

It's risky allowing fans to choose the name because what gets picked may not suit the theme of the album or you'd find hundreds of people wanting Meat to call the album Bat Out Of Hell IV. The only way I can see that working is if Meat's people came up with a list of ideas and had fans vote on it.

There are also things to consider when allowing fans to come up with a cover design. Most fans aren't professional graphic designers and can they produce work that is of a high enough quality to be used as the image that the whole world will see and associate with the album? Unlike a professional designer, a fan is more likely to have some kind of 'sentimental' attachment to their work and when they discover it has been edited, they may find themselves questioning whether it was good enough in the first place? Discovering that that is what happens in the professional world is not an easy lesson to learn.

Some artists have websites that encourage enthusiasm far more than meatloaf.net does. They post teasers of songs, things like blog updates from the studio, holding competitions for fans to win things like free downloads, signed CD's etc.

[nikox1]

Originally Posted by Skybird14

I can see where you're coming from but the fans that will be willing to participate in things like that are only a small minority when you think about how many fans Meat has all over the world.

It's risky allowing fans to choose the name because what gets picked may not suit the theme of the album or you'd find hundreds of people wanting Meat to call the album Bat Out Of Hell IV. The only way I can see that working is if Meat's people came up with a list of ideas and had fans vote on it.

There are also things to consider when allowing fans to come up with a cover design. Most fans aren't professional graphic designers and can they produce work that is of a high enough quality to be used as the image that the whole world will see and associate with the album. Unlike a professional designer, a fan is more likely to have some kind of 'sentimental' attachment to their work and when they discover it has been edited, they may find themselves questioning whether it was good enough in the first place? Discovering that that is what happens in the professional world is not an easy lesson to learn.

Some artists have websites that encourage enthusiasm far more than meatloaf.net does. They post teasers of songs, things like blog updates from the studio, holding competitions for fans to win things like free downloads, signed CD's etc.

i agree , well the record company could put up 6 names and 6 covers. he did alot of videos for HCTB = it was very exciting watching it unfold.

[nikox1]

i still think the willie wonka golden ticket thing is great,, it would gain great exposure and interest imo.

[JennaG]

Originally Posted by nikox1

i agree , well the record company could put up 6 names and 6 covers.

I think that would work better than having the fans just come up with names and covers off of their own back, that way they can be sure it fits the themes and content of the album.