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Old 02 Nov 2016, 11:25   #26
rockfenris2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by letsgotoofar View Post
Continuing from my previous thought in the thread...

Jim has occasionally speculated as to what might have gone differently if Meat wasn't the sole person in the spotlight -- if there might not have been all the shit that went down in that period popularly known as the Eighties where Meat lost his money, his house, his voice (briefly), and his mind (equally briefly).

I look at the name of his backing band The Neverland Express, which I feel might bear a tad more relation to Jim's ideas than to Meat's in its name, and wonder what it might have been like if Jim and Meat had just formed a band, done their thing with that band, and Meat had been able to put out non-Jim albums in his solo career and not needed to live up to any kind of "character" outside that band.

It's tempting to speculate whether or not life would have been easier...
The whole story's just full of What if's for me.

What if Steinman had been more prominent in the advertising for Bat?
What if Meat hadn't lost his voice?
Would Meat Loaf "Bad for good" had been a massive hit?
Would "Dead ringer" have been the third album with a few different songs?
What if Meat and Jim had made "Bat 2" in the 80s?
What if Meat and Jim had done another album together in the 90s?
What if Meat and Jim had done "Bat 3" with songs like "Braver than we are" "Not allowed to love" "Body" "Still the children" etc. etc.?
Would THAT "Bat 3" have been more successful as well or the same? Because we live in different times? And why did people respond to "Bat 2" sixteen years after "Bat" but not to "Bat 3"?

It just goes on and on and on and on.... In the end, what ISN'T there just makes what IS there all the more powerful to me, and emotional too, making me think of that line Jim wrote too, "If only are the loneliest words you'll ever know."
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Old 02 Nov 2016, 12:59   #27
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Be interesting to hear from Jim. Though my principles forbid me to click on anything from the Daily Hate Mail.
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Old 02 Nov 2016, 15:13   #28
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Jim always strikes me as a bit of a ~~~~ tease where Meat is concerned
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Old 03 Nov 2016, 02:26   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarylB View Post
Not going to get involved in the old debate as to who brought most, who benefited from whom. But whilst he may have had to play bars in the US, here in Europe in the 80s he had 5 successful tours in theatres and arenas, and released 4 albums .. two golds, one silver and of course Dead Ringer which went platinum and made No 1.

I never could figure out why he wasn't as popular in North America as he was in Europe, but for me it worked out as I saw him up close and personal more times than I can count in smaller venues.

I don't believe it is a quid pro quo. I think Meat genuinely cares that Jim's dream of bringing his musical to the stage is finally being realised, and simply wants to do what he can to support that. I heard nothing trashing Whistle at my ST shows, but that had already been reworked and had had a resounding success for well over a year in London's West End by the time ST started. Meat would not say anything unsupportive of this new musical imo.

You should maybe check out the dvd. Meat was definitely not supportive of WDTW and to be fair who can blame him considering the boyzone fiasco.
I am only offering an opinion but it wouldn't surprise me if there wasn't some sort of a deal worked out regarding the support of each others work. Kind of like trading songs in the early 80's.
And I do agree totally that Meat would definitely be supportive of the musical. Just wish it went both ways to the same extent.




Meat has made it clear he wants to give any support wanted. I doubt it has been his decision to have his photo featured so much in the promotion so far, nor the frequency with which his name is attached to it. I agree there is a danger that this can encourage casual fans to think it is about him, might even include him, even though the published storyline and now the cast makes it clear that neither is the case. I have even seen some fans expressing hopes that Meat will be on stage on opening night performing with Jim ..

However, I was pleased to see that the latest article I read makes no mention of Meat. I'm quite sure he is aware of the issue, and whatever he does to support Jim will be done in a way that will make it clear he is supporting his long-time friend and not directly involved in any way. In fact it's an opportunity to counter any false expectations raised by the earlier promotion so people do not buy tickets believing it is some kind of Meat Loaf Story, or that he will be appearing in it.
I will not be surprised if it does not do as well as hoped. Meat is too big of a fixture in the BAT lore and whether people like it or not, he is the face of BAT OUT OF HELL.
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Old 03 Nov 2016, 02:54   #30
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Personally, if they can do "We will rock you" without Queen not to mention Freddie Mercury, or "Mamma Mia!" without ABBA, then this shouldn't be very much different. I think if it works or it doesn't, it'll be down to whether the actual piece itself is any good or not.
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Old 03 Nov 2016, 13:23   #31
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For me there are two frustrations that I see coming from the coverage.

Jim frustrated once again that even when his name is above the title, the media instantly make the "Meat Loaf's album on stage" quotes.

Meat's frustration because any interviews or quotes that he gives are going to have him repeating the line "This is Jimmy's musical. It's the musical he has been working on for 40 years. It is Jimmy's dream and vision."

Bat is massive. Meat is always going to be associated with it - but the problem comes down to assumption that one and both are the same entity. One of the first comments on Ticketmasters Facebook promo is a bloke saying he wouldn't pay £75 to see Meat Loaf perform. Meat isn't mentioned anywhere in the ad, and it is clearly Jim Steinman's Bat Out of Hell, but unless people look properly, or in some cases report properly, then they will continue to make the assumption that it is to do with Meat until the real promo kicks in. It is like bringing out a show called Born In The USA and not expecting casual readers/viewers/.listeners to think it is Bruce related, or to a shudder inducing lesser extent Hit Me Baby One More Time and expecting Britney to pop up. It's just the way it is.

As for the "just Marvin Lee Aday" thing. I see it like this. When you look back over all the documented videos, retrospectives and interviews to do with Bat and Bat 2, there are constant references made by Jim, usually when Meat is sitting next to him, where he talks about Meat like you would about your prize performing animal in a circus. He's said that they made him into King Kong on the original Bat tour, that he wanted to get him to a place that he hadn't been before, for Bat 2 that he wanted to bring him back to the same traumatic experience that was the creation of Bat - hence the Back into Hell subtitle. And to me it is always said tongue in cheek. Both Meat and Jim have always made and taken jibes at each other in good humour the same as any good friends do. "Even in the Braver promo, Meat said how he criticised the Bonnie Tyler production of Loving You's a Dirty Job only for Jim to say "that was my production" before they laughed about it).

I remember back when Bat 3 was released and Jim was more actively writing on his blog. He critiqued the album but did not really criticise it, and for me that because despite the legal stuff going on as Meat has professed they never really fell out. Again no more than friends do from time to time.

Jim's recent concerns about Meat's health on his Facebook page show how much he cares for Meat, and the efforts that Meat goes to give Jim credit and promote Jim in everything he does or is linked to of Jim's says more to me than any media article will.

And I did have to laugh at a complaint that £90 is too extortionate for a front of stalls ticket. It's clearly been a while since some people bought West End Tickets lol
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Old 03 Nov 2016, 13:33   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockfenris2005 View Post
Personally, if they can do "We will rock you" without Queen not to mention Freddie Mercury, or "Mamma Mia!" without ABBA, then this shouldn't be very much different. I think if it works or it doesn't, it'll be down to whether the actual piece itself is any good or not.
I think the difference is that they are groups...Mamma Mia is known as the ABBA musical, not the Benny and Bjorn musical - which is really is. And Queen are Queen, there was never a more single unit group that was the sum of it's parts. They all sang (John Deacon aside) on the albums, all contributed to writing, so I think although Freddie was the frontman, Bat without some mention of Meat would be more like We Will Rock You without mentioning Queen.

I agree though, it's success will be down to the show itself, and with the team behind it I would think it might. We are talking TDV vs DOTV here. Tanz worked and continues to work because of the production/casting etc, Dance didn't for the same reasons. I don't feel the same mistakes being made on Bat that happened on DOTV.
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Old 03 Nov 2016, 14:01   #33
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Honestly, the fact that Meat's not in the play isn't going to have an effect on how well it does at this point in time.

What will make or break this musical is the ENERGY it brings, and the ACTORS who bring it. (Not to mention the writing)

If those things rock, especially with Meat doing promo in London, the play will do great, likely better, without Meat involved. The show is about young energy and young people. It's a group of 18 year olds who don't age (According to the lead singer/actor). It's supposed to fire up that youthful energy and you need young people to bring that. No offense intended here, but Meat brings an entirely different thing to Bat nowadays. Wonderful, but not the energy of a 23 year old.
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Old 03 Nov 2016, 15:32   #34
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Don't say I never give you anything:

YouTube Video
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Old 03 Nov 2016, 15:33   #35
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P.S. Incredibly busy but there is a chance that Meat 'could' be in the cast come broadway next year. Take it with an obligatory and somewhat MASSIVE pinch of salt (at this time).
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Old 03 Nov 2016, 15:42   #36
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Well that clip was, er.. interesting.. yeah that's it, interesting.
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Old 03 Nov 2016, 15:50   #37
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Well, I now need to see this musical.
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Old 03 Nov 2016, 15:57   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatWriterGuy View Post
Don't say I never give you anything:

YT-clip
So I was right. This is... wow, I almost hate myself for being THIS right
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Old 03 Nov 2016, 16:25   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatWriterGuy View Post
P.S. Incredibly busy but there is a chance that Meat 'could' be in the cast come broadway next year. Take it with an obligatory and somewhat MASSIVE pinch of salt (at this time).
it'll be a chance to get back on stage and not knacker himself through touring. Will takea year though
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Old 03 Nov 2016, 16:34   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatWriterGuy View Post
P.S. Incredibly busy but there is a chance that Meat 'could' be in the cast come broadway next year. Take it with an obligatory and somewhat MASSIVE pinch of salt (at this time).
Falco or another role?
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Old 03 Nov 2016, 16:44   #41
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Falco
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Old 03 Nov 2016, 16:53   #42
Danny L
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Thought so. Fingers crossed they'll be able to get it arranged!!

Maybe they could do a special 'concert presentation' at MSG or something with an all-star cast? Bit like the Les Mis anniversary at Royal Albert Hall
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Old 03 Nov 2016, 16:59   #43
letsgotoofar
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As I just posted to a Facebook group Caryl and I both frequent:

Quote:
A brief message to Meat's fans, some of whom may be seeing the title Bat Out of Hell: The Musical and expecting something different from what is actually being offered:
  • This isn't a show about Meat and Jim, though the casting that has appeared in early publicity should have been a clue. This is a fictional story entirely unrelated to Meat Loaf, whilst incorporating many of the songs that Meat made famous on his records. More specifically, this musical is that futuristic Peter Pan story that Jim has worked on, in one form or another, since 1969, and that Meat has reminded the public to be aware of as far back as Storytellers.
  • To the best of everyone's knowledge, neither Meat, nor any Meat-like figure, will appear in the show at this time. (Meat once said he'd be interested in playing a role in the production, but given his current health issues, lending a hand with anything more than promotion seems unlikely. I understand there is a chance he might perform in the Broadway cast, but only a chance, and anything claiming to be more firm should be taken with a pinch of salt.)

If this should affect your decision to buy tickets, I'm sure those involved will understand, but as a good person who doesn't wish for others to be inconvenienced, I would rather people were fully aware what they were buying tickets to rather than showing up on the night and feeling tricked into attending something that doesn't meet their expectations.

I strongly encourage you to attend anyway, as anything that someone poured their heart and soul into for almost 50 years can't be all bad, but I understand if you wanted to see something different.
You just gotta come at this expectation some Meat fans have, explain what it is they are paying to see, and hope they still want to go anyway. As for those who weren't keen on the idea and never wanted to see it, well, they went into the early coverage and got what they expected to see out of it, so why try to convince them?
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Old 03 Nov 2016, 17:14   #44
anotherday
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adje View Post
So I was right. This is... wow, I almost hate myself for being THIS right
Care to explain? Feel free to PM me if you find appropriate.
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Old 03 Nov 2016, 17:36   #45
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Rather than couch terms, I'll be direct: if you read earlier in this thread, you'll see Adje wasn't keen on the idea and never wanted to see it. My theory is he went into the early coverage and got what he expected to see out of it.
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Old 03 Nov 2016, 18:04   #46
Adje
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherday View Post
Care to explain? Feel free to PM me if you find appropriate.
you have a pm
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Old 03 Nov 2016, 18:05   #47
Adje
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got what he expected to see out of it.
... and beyond
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Old 03 Nov 2016, 18:18   #48
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Yep -- if you're only into Meat's versions of Jim's songs (and if you're not a fan of the musical medium on the whole), then this one probably isn't for you. I'm more than cool with that view, and I understand where those who feel that way are coming from (though I get the impression that Adje - like the snake who eats his own tail - is going to post that same opinion again and again and again, until well after the musical has been released -- ad infinitum!)
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Old 03 Nov 2016, 18:47   #49
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(though I get the impression that Adje - like the snake who eats his own tail - is going to post that same opinion again and again and again, until well after the musical has been released -- ad infinitum!)
[this musical is gonna suck]
Funny enough I didn't comment on the musical [it's gonna be horrible] except when I read a part of that interview where they spelled Meat's name as the food [horrible I tell you]. And I explained it in a response to your post as a reaction to mine [waste of money, time and effort]. And to be honest I wasn't planning on spending too much time to it in the future [because it's dreadful, you have to listen to me. Dreadful] as I don't really mind or care about it [I hate it, hate it, hate it, hate it]

So good luck with the production, the play and the reviews [although I can tell you already that it's the worst peace of play since Star Wars the Phantom Menace-the musical] and I do wish you all the best with it

[did I mention it's gonna be horrible?]
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Old 03 Nov 2016, 19:09   #50
Evil One
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Don't say I never give you anything
YouTube Video
I'd rather you didn't. Not my cup of tea at all.
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