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Old 26 May 2022, 20:12   #1
Danny L
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Default Undeveloped Meat Loaf ideas?

Before Meat sadly left us he was planning to record an EP '13 Roads To Bat', possibly including What Part of My Body Hurts The Most and Sun in Your Eyes, but he did mention several projects over the years that never happened.

The Kitchen Sink revealed that before Welcome to the Neighbourhood a demo album was made by Steven Van Zandt called 'Freak', based on the Hunchback of Notre Dame, apparently a more organic follow up to BAT II

Meat mentioned a desire to rerecord his vocals for Dead Ringer but keep the same backing tracks/Cher

Weren't there live show formats he wanted to play with? More Storytellers in the UK? A West End Run

Plus of course Meat Loaf and ITV had a game show project called Anything For Love
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Old 27 May 2022, 12:38   #2
Evil One
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I feel Freak was more a Steven Van Zandt idea than a Meat Loaf one and ultimately Meat wasn't interested. There are probably dozens of album ideas and hundreds of songs that were pitched to Meat and rejected.

Meat often talked about a Christmas album called Hot Holidays that never happened. In fact Meat talked about many things that never happened like releasing soundboard recordings of concerts online. Whether he ever had any intention of following through on these ideas or if they were only intended to move conversation away from negative comments is another discussion entirely.

I know Live Around The World was originally supposed to be a four CD album so there must be other unreleased material. In fact Meat first floated the concept of LATW in the late '70s for a Bat 1 live album.

The concert from Ahoy, Rotterdam in 1994 was filmed for a VHS release which didn't happen.

The BBC filmed a whole Rocktellz & Cocktails show for a documentary and then only featured footage of Meat strutting about.

There were three songs from the Mad Mad World tour that Paul Crook mixed with the idea of distributing them to MLUKFC members.
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Old 27 May 2022, 21:28   #3
Danny L
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil One View Post
I feel Freak was more a Steven Van Zandt idea than a Meat Loaf one and ultimately Meat wasn't interested. There are probably dozens of album ideas and hundreds of songs that were pitched to Meat and rejected.

Meat often talked about a Christmas album called Hot Holidays that never happened. In fact Meat talked about many things that never happened like releasing soundboard recordings of concerts online. Whether he ever had any intention of following through on these ideas or if they were only intended to move conversation away from negative comments is another discussion entirely.

I know Live Around The World was originally supposed to be a four CD album so there must be other unreleased material. In fact Meat first floated the concept of LATW in the late '70s for a Bat 1 live album.

The concert from Ahoy, Rotterdam in 1994 was filmed for a VHS release which didn't happen.

The BBC filmed a whole Rocktellz & Cocktails show for a documentary and then only featured footage of Meat strutting about.

There were three songs from the Mad Mad World tour that Paul Crook mixed with the idea of distributing them to MLUKFC members.
Weren't Total Eclipse and Making Love offered to Meat before Bonnie Tyler and Air Supply did them with Jim? (indeed Mr Steinman had many songs planned for BAT III that never happened)

Hot Holidays. How could I forget!

omg Ahoy 1994 and R&C - surely there's a retro DVD/streaming release in there somewhere! Heaven Can Wait was on Classic Albums

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgls8GCnWOQ

I think there are many more audio/video recordings of shows out there that are unreleased
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Old 27 May 2022, 22:27   #4
Adje
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny L View Post
omg Ahoy 1994 and R&C - surely there's a retro DVD/streaming release in there somewhere! Heaven Can Wait was on Classic Albums

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgls8GCnWOQ
Objects also was aired at a tv show from that night, Meat called it bootlegged.

https://youtu.be/pL_5aB-RypU

I asked him later how he figured it was bootlegged (as it was aired on tv) and he mentioned he only authorised HCW for release as he was disappointed by the rest of the show. It was gonna be a one night concert in the Netherlands, but by populair demand they added an extra concert a day before the one they were recording and Meat's voice was very worn (or so he said). He didn't remember someone greenlighting the Objects clip.
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Old 28 May 2022, 03:45   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny L View Post
Weren't Total Eclipse and Making Love offered to Meat before Bonnie Tyler and Air Supply did them with Jim? (indeed Mr Steinman had many songs planned for BAT III that never happened)

Hot Holidays. How could I forget!

omg Ahoy 1994 and R&C - surely there's a retro DVD/streaming release in there somewhere! Heaven Can Wait was on Classic Albums

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgls8GCnWOQ

I think there are many more audio/video recordings of shows out there that are unreleased
About Total eclips.. for what i understand... Meat loaf got in conflict with Steinman's legal team around 82/83 and Steinman moved from Cleveand to CBS, he was than prohibited to work with Meat, who at that moment was forced to look for other song writers.. But if someone knows the exact Stoy..
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Old 28 May 2022, 17:03   #6
letsgotoofar
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The exact story, no. But I can offer some info from the other side since we've usually only heard Meat's version of events.

Per my (admittedly limited) conversations with Jim over the years, Meat was forever asking what he'd been writing lately, always looking to see if there was another gem tucked away. In response, Jim would send Meat things he was working on. As far as Jim was concerned, whatever he shared was not always explicitly intended for Meat, just an example of exactly what Meat had asked about (i.e., what he'd been writing lately). But Meat, more often than not, interpreted it as a direct submission, and this sometimes led to trouble.

(For example, Meat desperately wanted to do "It's All Coming Back To Me Now" when Jim first played it for him, but Jim wasn't interested; he saw it as more appropriate for a woman. That didn't stop Meat from trying to record it anyway for the album that eventually became Neighbo(u)rhood. Jim successfully sought a legal injunction to prevent him from recording it based on laws about mechanical licensing. Quick-and-dirty explanation: people can cover whatever song they want thanks to mechanical licensing. If it's been released in the U.S., all they have to do is pay the so-called "mechanical" fee to the publisher to record a song. "All Coming Back" had yet to be released Stateside, so it required Jim's permission, which he wasn't giving. That gave him grounds to stop Meat from recording it. Of course, once Celine Dion released it, it was open season ten years later, whether or not Jim was involved in, or wanted it on, the album it was on...)

All that to say: I can believe Jim not being able to work with Meat due to the legal issues, but I can also see Jim playing him "Total Eclipse" and "Making Love" purely as examples of his current material, and Meat thinking that meant they were his.

Back on the thread topic... one undeveloped Meat Loaf idea was teased in the tour program for Midnight at the Lost and Found. Instead of Bad Attitude, Meat was reportedly planning to record a concept album called Innocence, Dreams, Success or Failure which would deal with "stories of people who are born into success or whatever and the places that surround them." He had Tom Dowd in mind to return as producer, and that Jim would write for it, though whether he was to write the whole thing is unclear.
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Old 30 May 2022, 13:03   #7
Tina.K.
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These stories and info are awesome! Love to hear more of them.
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Old 02 Jun 2022, 12:57   #8
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Forgive my ignorance, but did the Pandoras box version of All Coming Back to me (or the album Original sin) not see a release stateside then?


Quote:
Originally Posted by letsgotoofar View Post
The exact story, no. But I can offer some info from the other side since we've usually only heard Meat's version of events.

Per my (admittedly limited) conversations with Jim over the years, Meat was forever asking what he'd been writing lately, always looking to see if there was another gem tucked away. In response, Jim would send Meat things he was working on. As far as Jim was concerned, whatever he shared was not always explicitly intended for Meat, just an example of exactly what Meat had asked about (i.e., what he'd been writing lately). But Meat, more often than not, interpreted it as a direct submission, and this sometimes led to trouble.

(For example, Meat desperately wanted to do "It's All Coming Back To Me Now" when Jim first played it for him, but Jim wasn't interested; he saw it as more appropriate for a woman. That didn't stop Meat from trying to record it anyway for the album that eventually became Neighbo(u)rhood. Jim successfully sought a legal injunction to prevent him from recording it based on laws about mechanical licensing. Quick-and-dirty explanation: people can cover whatever song they want thanks to mechanical licensing. If it's been released in the U.S., all they have to do is pay the so-called "mechanical" fee to the publisher to record a song. "All Coming Back" had yet to be released Stateside, so it required Jim's permission, which he wasn't giving. That gave him grounds to stop Meat from recording it. Of course, once Celine Dion released it, it was open season ten years later, whether or not Jim was involved in, or wanted it on, the album it was on...)

All that to say: I can believe Jim not being able to work with Meat due to the legal issues, but I can also see Jim playing him "Total Eclipse" and "Making Love" purely as examples of his current material, and Meat thinking that meant they were his.

Back on the thread topic... one undeveloped Meat Loaf idea was teased in the tour program for Midnight at the Lost and Found. Instead of Bad Attitude, Meat was reportedly planning to record a concept album called Innocence, Dreams, Success or Failure which would deal with "stories of people who are born into success or whatever and the places that surround them." He had Tom Dowd in mind to return as producer, and that Jim would write for it, though whether he was to write the whole thing is unclear.
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Old 03 Jun 2022, 04:39   #9
letsgotoofar
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It did not. It tanked overseas (except, oddly enough, for South Africa), and no U.S. label wanted it. After Bat II, per a Simon Bates interview, Jim was looking to give it another go, perhaps replace a couple of the vocalists for American release (if I had to venture a guess, maybe Lorraine Crosby, who he was managing at the time, might have been such a replacement), but that never happened.
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Old 03 Jun 2022, 08:22   #10
proctorloaf
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Jim taught us that 'If Only' are the loneliest words we'll ever know. He seized the day and went over the top. There is a long list of projects that never completed or songs which were started but never finished. That is called process. There will be cupboards full of material which didn't make the grade or wasn't right for a project from both Jim and Meat.

IMO that makes the material we have even more special and deserving of celebration. We can't mourn what could have been when we have just a wealth of work at our fingertips ready to take us to new and exciting worlds every time we drop the needle.

Undoubtedly Meat's last plan would have grown into an album and I'd have loved one more with 'Body' as the very last single. But we have the song as part of Jim's oeuvre recorded by the awesome Rob Fowler.

Vaults will be opened. New work will be released and I hope those custodians get it right. Until then, I'll be rocking out to the Steinman/Loaf discography til the end of time.
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Old 03 Jun 2022, 12:53   #11
aks650
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I hope so…
What works would you expect to be released?
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Old 03 Jun 2022, 16:44   #12
jcmoorehead
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I do actually wonder if any of the vaults will be opened? It feels like we have the tribute show in Bat, but that was started before Meats passing, and I dunno, I just don't really get the impression that there is any desire to go into those vaults and release anything.

Which to be honest, if there isn't then fair enough, there is no obligation at all.

Another one for the pile but I do seem to remember a few years ago there were talks of a special Bat anniversary being launched. (If I remember correctly Sony were going to release a bog standard Bat + Live Track, but Meat said something about him and Jim putting together a deluxe one with outtakes/demos/etc on it)
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Old 03 Jun 2022, 19:52   #13
letsgotoofar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcmoorehead View Post
Another one for the pile but I do seem to remember a few years ago there were talks of a special Bat anniversary being launched. (If I remember correctly Sony were going to release a bog standard Bat + Live Track, but Meat said something about him and Jim putting together a deluxe one with outtakes/demos/etc on it)
Yeah, that was a fairly recent dealie. He also talked a year or so after Bat III about doing an anniversary EP with some new Jim songs on it and Desmond Child producing, but that never happened.

(In fact, since I've now brought up two occasions where the producer of the last album was supposed to work with him again on the next consecutive release, what does everyone think causes them not to come back?)
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Old 03 Jun 2022, 20:45   #14
Evil One
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcmoorehead View Post
but Meat said something about him and Jim putting together a deluxe one with outtakes/demos/etc on it)
I suspect this was another case of Meat deciding he was going to do something and not running it past Jim first. In fact at the time I doubt Jim was in a state capable of approving or denying anything anyway. The whole deal with the demos ultimately wasn't up to Meat anyway as they are owned by David Sonenberg.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny L View Post
I think there are many more audio/video recordings of shows out there that are unreleased
There are lots. From memory there is Ahoy, Rotterdam in 1994. There's another one from the US in 1994 as well but I forget exactly where. Berlin in 1996. The Netherlands again in 1999. Then all the shows with the big screens from 3 Bats onwards but I don't know if all the footage was kept. There's a show from the Bad Attitude tour that isn't Bad Attitude Live. Another show from the Dead Ringer tour that isn't Wembley 1982 and all the footage shot in the aircraft hanger for the Dead Ringer movie. Then there are all the single camera shows like Slagharen 1989, Toad's Place 1991 and Orlando 1994.

Last edited by Evil One; 03 Jun 2022 at 21:00.
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Old 10 Jun 2022, 16:42   #15
Cherry.Loaf
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I seem to remember there was talk of another collection of stories from the man himself at one point
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Old 11 Jun 2022, 15:55   #16
duke knooby
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According to the following account, Meat was considering doing another duet with Stoney on a forthcoming ep.

Ultimate classic rock, stoney and meatloaf

(I’ll add a link later if I can)
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Old 11 Jun 2022, 23:02   #17
duke knooby
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ultimate classic rock article link

https://ultimateclassicrock.com/meat-loaf-motown/
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