Question to Steinman fans

[Jaymze]

Yeah it does, as anyone can hear the songs have a lot of potential- some of them are huge ballads, that's why with the correct production and arrangement the album would have been a huge success. Yes there is a problem with another Dead Ringer, because the original album bombed probably due to a combination of bad management/advertising and I sincerely hope that does not happen to Bat III.

[The Flying Mouse]

POTENTIAL?

[Steve6]

Originally Posted by Jaymze

Plus we can hardly credit Anything For Love to Rundgren- that is the best written and recorded song I've ever heard.

Well he did sing background vocals with Rory Dodd and Kasim Sulton on that single, so yet again he contributed something to the cause.
He even sang in and arranged the backing vocals on CHSIB also.

[Jaymze]

well whether he sanf bk ground vocals or not I've got a bit of an incling that the song would have still went to number 1

[Steve6]

Originally Posted by Jaymze

well whether he sanf bk ground vocals or not I've got a bit of an incling that the song would have still went to number 1

Yes it would have..... but at least he done something that deserved a little credit, like all the other people involved. A singer and songwriter don't make an album completely by themselves. Yes they do contribute 50% to it, but the rest goes to all the people in the production end of things.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Steve6

Yes it would have..... but at least he done something that deserved a little credit, like all the other people involved. A singer and songwriter don't make an album completely by themselves. Yes they do contribute 50% to it, but the rest goes to all the people in the production end of things.

I agree that the band is quite important. Don't think you can put a 50% figure on that though so easily. A song like DIST certainly has been produced to sound Meat Loafy I think. A lot of Meat Loaf songs hark back on cliches and use conventional rock chord progressions like Springsteen's songs. But it's how you play/sing it all to get that unique sound that makes things quite important. However I am sure Steinman "hears" a lot of his songs while he is writing. "Anything for Love" was first only on piano when Meat heard it he said, I'm sure Jim imagined a lot of the backing vocals and the amount of other stuff they could do with the song.

[Pudding]

Background vocals are just added fluff, great fluff in some cases, but I don't think the person(s) doing/singing them should get credit for the overall production of a song.

Pud

[Jaymze]

And where are you going to stop? What about the tea boy who brought Meat his coffee? If that coffee hadn't woken Meat up properly the song wouldn't have sounded so good so we've gotta thank the tea boy! And the runner! What if the runner had slept in and turned up late with Jimmy's dinner, Jimmy would have been mad and maybe not finished Objects but instead wrote a song about bad runner's- 'Runner's should go to hell' and it would have wrecked the album so thank you to the Runners! Where are we going to stop? Anyone?

[L96]

I vote we stop at three: writer, singer and producer.

That said, it makes life easier if one of the three can perform two roles, then we can stop at two.

[Jaymze]

I agree with that!

[L96]

Well, spin my nipple nuts and blow me to Alaska... there is actually an agreement around here!

[The Flying Mouse]

I vote we read the linear notes, say "yeah cool" acknowledge who did what and leave it at that

[L96]

Yeah, but where's the fun in that?

Plus, there is still a debate as to who did what, and how much of it.

A potentially unsolvable debate, but one nonetheless.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by lotus96

Well, spin my nipple nuts and blow me to Alaska... there is actually an agreement around here!

[mikeloaf]

I don't really understand why people argue about Bat 1 and Dead Ringer, etc. Like Meat says, it all history.

Don't forget Bat 2 was 13 years ago, Bat 1 29 'ish years ago. I doubt the issues people are debating here are of any relevance to Meat or anyone else involved in those albums.

Meat says Bat3 will be ready in four months and launched in September, just look FORWARD to that.

[L96]

Not so much arguing, as talking about other albums. The discussion may not have relevence to anyone involved, but most people enjoy these discussions, as far as I can tell. Mate, they even enjoy getting worked up about things, it's called passion.

If we are looking forward to Bat III, does this mean that every other album Meat has ever been involved with becomes irrelevent and unlikable?

I don't think so.

[mikeloaf]

Of course not. That isn't what I said. These albums have already been produced years ago, so what is the point in debating them?

From my reading of Meat's comments they are in the past.

Listen to Bat 1, Dead Ringer, BA, BBIS, Bat2, etc., etc. and other Meat related albums all you like, I do, I listen to Meat's albums most days.

I don't think the issues debated here about Bat 1, etc. are relevant to Meat.

The focus should be on supporting Bat 3.

I don't think I even implied that other Meat albums were irrelevant or unlikable, because I like all of them.

I am pointing out that it is in the past and cannot be changed.

[L96]

You are correct, the past cannot be changed. But it can still be discussed!

Now, I would love to chat about Bat III, is there any particular aspect you would like to talk about?

[Steve6]

Its always exciting to talk and have an arguement about Bat 3.
Everyone has there own views on how they would like. But I feel everyone would agree that Steinman is important.
But we have to remember Jim has had to recover from serious strokes and that maybe the reason why he is'nt involved at the moment.
It takes a long time to get over it. Thats why he has taken it easy in recent years.

[mikeloaf]

No lotus96, not at the moment. Like Meat said we only have 4 months to wait. Discuss all you like about old albums. I'm patient!

Steve6, you are right, we shouldn't forget its people we are talking about.

[rockfenris2005]

Originally Posted by Jaymze

From a marketing stand point and from the general audience's point of view- not mine, they don't really care who wrote the songs, all they want to do is take home the CD and listen to it. If you get upset over Steinmans name not being as big as Meat's on the CD than what about all those artists whose song writers names aren't on the CD cover at all? Do you think Elton John fans get mad that his lyric writers name's not on the cover of his CD's? Or Whitney Houston's song writers name's not on the cover of her CD's?

As a matter of fact I was watching University Challenge and one of the questions was 'who is the self-titled prince of darkness and writer of the BOOH albums?' to which someone replied 'Jim Steinway' which was close I suppose.

You still haven't quite grasped the concept I'm afraid...

Unlike Elton John and Whitney Houston, and all of the examples you've made, Meat Loaf didn't *pay* a songwriter to tailor a particular song to him. Meat and Jim were actors, from the New York Shakespeare Festival, who teamed up intending to write an album "together".

Note where I put the emphasis on "together". It was like Hall and Oates, Simon and Garfunkel. Meat was the singer, the character, and Jim was the songwriter, the director. Jim wasn't some random lyricist who was paid by Meat's management to devise a debut album for Meat Loaf. Jim was Meat's friend, and they started it together. Sonenberg thought the album would be more commercial if they sold it from the stancepoint that you've just said. But like our friendly moderator has said, that's all history now: even though I've never really seen a statement from either man agreeing to this theory.

Here's an interesting interview (I know it's a bit random to suggest this, but it'd intrigue you):

http://jimsteinman.com/Q&AwithJim1.htm

Great Quotes btw.

We were a duo in the sense, a different kind, but it was for two, two and a half, three years we were working as Meat Loaf and Jim Steinman, like Hall And Oates. So I was stunned 'cause David was his manager and when we got to CBS to sign the record deal, I remember it was a big table, like 12 people, and the president, Walter Yetnikov was at one end, and they sent the contract around to be signed.

It went by me, I wasn't there to sign it. I remember being surprised and saying, hey wait, I didn't get to sign it, and they said, well you're not in it. That was the first I had found out that they had taken my name off and I think Meat probably thinks this had a more profound effect on me than it did. But maybe it did have that profound effect. I just remember being really startled and sort of shattered just because in my mind it was a very cool thing to have this combination of a song writer pianist and a singer.

I didn't know of any example of that and I thought it was really cool. It was the reason all of our auditions were just piano and him. It was what we intended the whole thing to be, a piano in the center of the stage, and it would be like that. David's reasoning was that he thought it was easier to sell with the name Meat Loaf. I didn't agree with him but I also mainly was upset that I didn't know about it.

So it wasn't about Meat and, to Meat Loaf's great credit, he was wonderfully loyal. I actually eavesdropped without him knowing it at a studio in New Jersey. We were working on Bat Out Of Hell and he got on the phone to David in tears and pleaded with him to put the credit back to the way it was 'cause he didn't feel comfortable with it being only Meat Loaf, which is an interesting seed to a bigger story.

I still believe honestly, had it kept the original credit, I suppose this is a little self-serving, but I don't mean it that way. I think Meat would've had a much easier time over the last 30 years. 'Cause one thing Meat will admit to I'm sure is he'll say, I never wanted to be a star. I'm not comfortable being a star, and he had a lot of breakdowns and problems, which I think had a lot to do with it was just his name.

He felt much more comfortable when it was the two of us 'cause we shared the burden and he wasn't the person who had to come up with the creative work. He didn't have to write the stuff. I think when he felt his name was there, 'cause you know how the audience is, the audience thinks actors make up their lines, they think the singer, to this day a lot of people think Meat Loaf wrote the songs, that proved to be a great burden on him, and I think taxed everything.

I still to this day honestly believe had it been billed as a duo, Meat would not have had one tenth of the problems he had psychologically and I think I would've been happier because I wanted to feel part of it, more than behind the scenes. But once it happened, it happened, you know. I remember when I was thinking about it saying, well no one's ever gonna hear this record anyway, it's not gonna matter, why should I get upset about it, this is such an absurd little project.

So I didn't get overly freaked out. I got more, probably, upset about it later on, a few years later like when Meat lost his voice. I was thinking, this is so awkward, this whole thing is clumsy and I really think it was a terrible act because I think Meat didn't want that burden on him. He didn't wanna feel like (that), and you could see that if you were with him, as I was, every day when we were touring.

The audience would chant for him and love him and it was wonderful and I felt fine. It was great 'cause they were loving the songs too but I could tell it was hard for him because it's almost like he felt he had to come up with songs for the next record. Suddenly there was this split between us and we weren't like one organism. I was someone like the director, and he was the actor, and there was a split and it was awkward, basically...

R.L.

[AndrewG]

**** sake it's like a lecture theatre this place.

Anyone considering a PHD in Meat Loaf and Jim Steinman studies?

[rockfenris2005]

The moment you read it, the moment you'll understand where I'm coming from

[Pudding]

So long as you're learning something new, each and every day

Pud

[rockfenris2005]

I reckon, in those quotes alone, it's summed up my whole point.