Dream Engine - Page 2

Pudding · 02 Feb 2006, 10:21

So the question is...is it the song or the production? and which ones in particular?

Pud

Bart · 02 Feb 2006, 10:36

well, this is risky cause it is a matter of opinion.
First, Steinman is the best writer.
Second, I have got critics on almost all his recordings allthough I think the songs are awesome.
What first spring to my mind is the way The Tyler Album from 1986 is produced. I don't like the overall sound. Too much backing vocals for instance. It gets in the way.
I don't like Boyzone. I don't like Manilow. I don't like the production on a couple of tracks on bat 2. The overall sound on bat 2 is overdone. it is not larger than life but is computerized and impossible to play it live. Allthough Objects is the best produced song I have ever heard.

I lprefer the recording style from Bat, Dead Ringer and Bad for Good.

Pudding · 02 Feb 2006, 11:00

To be honest, there needed to be a lot of backing vocals on Bonnie's songs, which takes the focus off of hers.

Boyzone's No Matter What, is a crap song fullstop. And if I'm not mistaken there was about 4 producers on that song.

I'm going to disagree with you on the Manilow version of ReaW, because I think the production is good, but the singing isn't.

Bat2 had too much Bova, synths crap for my liking, same as a couple of tracks from Pandora's Box.

Bat was awesome, Dead Ringer had a few faults and Bad For Good could have, should have been a lot better, as there's a few things on it that annoy the crap out of me.

Pud

Bart · 02 Feb 2006, 11:33

Okay Dead Ringer is dated and cheesy

. But listen to those piano arrangements. Same with Bad for Good and Bat. Have you ever heard such a piano? On later albums the quality of the piano arrangement wasn't nearly as good as on those 3 albums.
The only mistake I can find on Bad for Good is Jim's singing, the annoying backing vocals in the last part of the title song and Rory's singing on Surf's up. His voice is great but this song needs a big voice.

Don't understand me wrong. i love all of Jim's song and I love all the piano parts on all of his songs but again, the piano on the first 3 records were far better than the rest.

rockfenris2005 · 02 Feb 2006, 13:09

The only way we'll ever hear these songs is a) Meat Loaf plays them on the BAT 3 tour (which I can't imagine being likely) or b) Steinman includes them in The Dream Engine. I'll go with the latter...

I don't think that Read 'em and Weep and Gonna Love her are cheesy songs. Meat Loaf shouldn't have said that, IMO, because they are some of the most passionate songs I've ever heard (better than a lot of stuff on Bat 2).

Dead Ringer is one of those albums that looks to be a sunken treasure. There's seven songs on there, and only three or four have ever really gotten minor attention. Thye need to be brought back, re-furbished, modernized, exposed to the world at last.

Pudding · 02 Feb 2006, 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bart

But listen to those piano arrangements. Same with Bad for Good and Bat. Have you ever heard such a piano?

I think Roy Bittan should be heavily praised for those, that's why I wanted him on the Bat3 project, and hopefully he is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bart

The only mistake I can find on Bad for Good is Jim's singing, the annoying backing vocals in the last part of the title song and Rory's singing on Surf's up. His voice is great but this song needs a big voice.

Yep, Jim's voice sucks. I'll have to disagree with Rory and Surf's Up though. Rory's voice and that song fit together perfectly I think, it definitely suits the higher pitch. That's why I'd love to hear a female sing it, despite the erection connotations.

Pud

evil nickname · 03 Feb 2006, 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pudding

That's why I'd love to hear a female sing it, despite the erection connotations.

Well, actually, that's nothing compared to what I've heard a woman sing last week:

Quote:

Cries from the grave resound in my ears
They hail from beyond my darkest fears
Faces of the past are etched in my brain
The women I raped, the men I've slain

--Ayreon, The Castle Hall

(from a rock opera, and this part, The Barbarian, was sung by a man)

ChrisBelfast · 04 Feb 2006, 14:11

Rob has updated his site. the show will last an hour (due to time restrictions). Said they are busy working in studio and rehearsing hall.

Bart · 04 Feb 2006, 15:21

so they play only 3 steinman songs

Jeanie · 04 Feb 2006, 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bart

so they play only 3 steinman songs

Right you are, Bart.

J.

Dave · 04 Feb 2006, 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bart

so they play only 3 steinman songs

Even that would be the radio edits!

With all the love there ever was...

Dave

Michael Marxen · 04 Feb 2006, 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pudding

The song 'What Part Of My Body' is pretty mediocre, it doesn't do much for me at all, but I can hear that it belongs in a Broadway type environment and not a Rock show or on a rock album. Saying that, Meat might have the song after all and Desmond Child worked wonders with it. But from what I've heard of the song, as it stands, it wouldn't suit Meat Loaf, IMHO.

Pud

Your serious?
"Body" as a song has For Crying Out Loud-dimension IMO.
And it screams for Meats voice. From the moment I heard in in NYC last January I initially thought this must have been written by Jim with Meat in mind, cause it fits just so perfectly.

Too sad that its is not going to happen...

Bart · 04 Feb 2006, 21:20

Sad? It is bloody awfull. It would be Meat's next number 1 hit around the globe. And now this Engelbert Humperdick is gonna get it. It is a real disaster.

Well, he can get it, he can record it and then the song will never be heard. It is a waste, A real waste.

Ma.Ra · 04 Feb 2006, 21:49

What? Why are you so sure that body will not be on Bat3?

You mean with Engelbert Humperdick Rob Evan?

Bart · 04 Feb 2006, 21:57

You are right. I am not sure. But I have a feeling it won't be there.
And the other question, you are right too.

Ma.Ra · 04 Feb 2006, 22:27

And what means the name Engelbert Humperdick excatly?

I have read that Meat was angry when Rob sang Body in the Over the top performance. That would mean that Meat did want body on the disc.

Pudding · 04 Feb 2006, 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Marxen

Your serious?
"Body" as a song has For Crying Out Loud-dimension IMO.

It's all personal tastes, the song doesn't do much for me at all. But to quote myself Meat might have the song after all and Desmond Child worked wonders with it

Pud

Space Monkey · 05 Feb 2006, 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymze

Also Barry Manilow destroyed Read'em and Weap, he turned it into a really soppy ear aching love song when it was meant to be an operatic ballad

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pudding

I don't think you can blame Mr.Manilow for that, since it was Steinman who produced the song and therefor it must be how he felt it should be done.

Manilow didn't like Jim's original's production. Steinman (http://www.jimsteinman.com/sexlies.htm):
"The version I did unfortunately never got heard - he refused to release it, and I had to remix it. It was very powerful, though, some of the best guitars and loudest drums I've ever put on."

So not true.

mariella · 05 Feb 2006, 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Marxen

Your serious?
"Body" as a song has For Crying Out Loud-dimension IMO.
And it screams for Meats voice. From the moment I heard in in NYC last January I initially thought this must have been written by Jim with Meat in mind, cause it fits just so perfectly.

Too sad that its is not going to happen...

I fully agree Michael - and even though I am not religious - I pray it will be on BatIII...
And if it is not, I hope one day someone can explain what happened!?

Love,
Mariella

Pudding · 06 Feb 2006, 03:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariella

I fully agree Michael - and even though I am not religious - I pray it will be on BatIII...
And if it is not, I hope one day someone can explain what happened!?

Love,
Mariella

I'm sure Bart can

Pud

JGrayland · 06 Feb 2006, 19:52

From what i understand, Meat doesnt like the song. Or perhaps he feels its already someone elses song so doesn't want to compete? I dunno. I certainly feel its one of Jim's greatest ballads ever and would have loved to have seen it on Bat 3, but alas. I just hope SOMEONE does it (and well) on a studio produced version so i can listen to it without hearing glasses clinking and people talking...

**Ankie** · 06 Feb 2006, 23:15

I do not get it either. My thoughts about the song are at least the same as Michael describes. My heart skipped quite a few beats when I first heard it..

People say it is about money...... I really do not get that; have Meat to do it on BAT 3 and it will bring you lots of money. No offence to Rob Evan, but if he will somehow release it, how many people will buy it then?

Bart · 06 Feb 2006, 23:27

me and you and then that's it!

rockfenris2005 · 07 Feb 2006, 07:15

Some member had a word with Meat at one of his concerts..

They are lead to believe that Jim offered Meat the song for BAT III, but he didn't like it. Judged on Meat saying (recently) he dislikes Read 'em and Weep and I'm Gonna Love her for Both of Us (possibly my favourite Meat / Jim song), I can believe this. Steinman took back the song, gave it to Evan to sing at the OTT concert, and Meat probably feels "wait a minute. That's my property." Remember also that Meat missed out on Total Eclipse of the Heart and Making Love out of Nothing at All. I once read an interview where Meat said those songs belonged to him.

I also read another interview, from the 80s, where they are mentioned as cuts from Midnight at the Lost and Found. Wouldn't it be crazy if a demo, or something, surfaced?

But Meat, apparently, didn't like that song. Which I find really hard to believe, because I think (personally) it's the best song Jimmy's written since I'd do Anything for Love and Objects in the Rear View Mirror. And it really continues the feeling that's on Bat. It gives me this image that Bat 3's about old-age. Bat 1 was about teenagers, Bat 2 middle-age and Bat 3 will be an old guy.

This song is, whatever the case, a hundred miles ahead of "Only When I Feel" which I think, judging from Meat's interpretation from a crappy bootleg, is the worst song I have ever heard from him. Even worse than Blind Before I Stop territory

R.L.

EDIT: I take that back. Judging from Rob Evan's rendition it's BAT 1 territory. But the Meat Loaf version I heard is like a really bad demo from Welcome to the Neighborhood. However I will say: it's reminiscent of the arrangement on Original Sin

Pudding · 07 Feb 2006, 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockfenris2005

Some member had a word with Meat at one of his concerts..

They are lead to believe that Jim offered Meat the song for BAT III, but he didn't like it.

'Some member' and 'lead to believe' doesn't convince me (and I doubt many others) that this event actually took place.

Pud

02 Feb 2006, 10:21	#26
Pudding I'm A Prize Fight Lover... Join Date: 22.10.2003 Location: New Zealand Posts: 5,532	So the question is...is it the song or the production? and which ones in particular? Pud

02 Feb 2006, 10:36	#27
Bart Bald Mega Loafer Join Date: 06.03.2003 Location: Holland, but I prefer Greece Posts: 2,243	well, this is risky cause it is a matter of opinion. First, Steinman is the best writer. Second, I have got critics on almost all his recordings allthough I think the songs are awesome. What first spring to my mind is the way The Tyler Album from 1986 is produced. I don't like the overall sound. Too much backing vocals for instance. It gets in the way. I don't like Boyzone. I don't like Manilow. I don't like the production on a couple of tracks on bat 2. The overall sound on bat 2 is overdone. it is not larger than life but is computerized and impossible to play it live. Allthough Objects is the best produced song I have ever heard. I lprefer the recording style from Bat, Dead Ringer and Bad for Good.

02 Feb 2006, 11:00	#28
Pudding I'm A Prize Fight Lover... Join Date: 22.10.2003 Location: New Zealand Posts: 5,532	To be honest, there needed to be a lot of backing vocals on Bonnie's songs, which takes the focus off of hers. Boyzone's No Matter What, is a crap song fullstop. And if I'm not mistaken there was about 4 producers on that song. I'm going to disagree with you on the Manilow version of ReaW, because I think the production is good, but the singing isn't. Bat2 had too much Bova, synths crap for my liking, same as a couple of tracks from Pandora's Box. Bat was awesome, Dead Ringer had a few faults and Bad For Good could have, should have been a lot better, as there's a few things on it that annoy the crap out of me. Pud

02 Feb 2006, 11:33	#29
Bart Bald Mega Loafer Join Date: 06.03.2003 Location: Holland, but I prefer Greece Posts: 2,243	Okay Dead Ringer is dated and cheesy . But listen to those piano arrangements. Same with Bad for Good and Bat. Have you ever heard such a piano? On later albums the quality of the piano arrangement wasn't nearly as good as on those 3 albums. The only mistake I can find on Bad for Good is Jim's singing, the annoying backing vocals in the last part of the title song and Rory's singing on Surf's up. His voice is great but this song needs a big voice. Don't understand me wrong. i love all of Jim's song and I love all the piano parts on all of his songs but again, the piano on the first 3 records were far better than the rest.

02 Feb 2006, 13:09	#30
rockfenris2005 Mega Loafer Join Date: 16.02.2003 Location: Posts: 2,217	The only way we'll ever hear these songs is a) Meat Loaf plays them on the BAT 3 tour (which I can't imagine being likely) or b) Steinman includes them in The Dream Engine. I'll go with the latter... I don't think that Read 'em and Weep and Gonna Love her are cheesy songs. Meat Loaf shouldn't have said that, IMO, because they are some of the most passionate songs I've ever heard (better than a lot of stuff on Bat 2). Dead Ringer is one of those albums that looks to be a sunken treasure. There's seven songs on there, and only three or four have ever really gotten minor attention. Thye need to be brought back, re-furbished, modernized, exposed to the world at last.

04 Feb 2006, 14:11	#33
ChrisBelfast Mega Loafer Join Date: 18.02.2003 Location: Posts: 1,061	Rob has updated his site. the show will last an hour (due to time restrictions). Said they are busy working in studio and rehearsing hall.

04 Feb 2006, 15:21	#34
Bart Bald Mega Loafer Join Date: 06.03.2003 Location: Holland, but I prefer Greece Posts: 2,243	so they play only 3 steinman songs

04 Feb 2006, 21:20	#38
Bart Bald Mega Loafer Join Date: 06.03.2003 Location: Holland, but I prefer Greece Posts: 2,243	Sad? It is bloody awfull. It would be Meat's next number 1 hit around the globe. And now this Engelbert Humperdick is gonna get it. It is a real disaster. Well, he can get it, he can record it and then the song will never be heard. It is a waste, A real waste.

04 Feb 2006, 21:49	#39
Ma.Ra Trekkie Join Date: 25.07.2004 Location: in the middle of nowhere Posts: 863	What? Why are you so sure that body will not be on Bat3? You mean with Engelbert Humperdick Rob Evan?

04 Feb 2006, 21:57	#40
Bart Bald Mega Loafer Join Date: 06.03.2003 Location: Holland, but I prefer Greece Posts: 2,243	You are right. I am not sure. But I have a feeling it won't be there. And the other question, you are right too.

04 Feb 2006, 22:27	#41
Ma.Ra Trekkie Join Date: 25.07.2004 Location: in the middle of nowhere Posts: 863	And what means the name Engelbert Humperdick excatly? I have read that Meat was angry when Rob sang Body in the Over the top performance. That would mean that Meat did want body on the disc.

06 Feb 2006, 19:52	#46
JGrayland Loafer Join Date: 06.11.2003 Posts: 65	From what i understand, Meat doesnt like the song. Or perhaps he feels its already someone elses song so doesn't want to compete? I dunno. I certainly feel its one of Jim's greatest ballads ever and would have loved to have seen it on Bat 3, but alas. I just hope SOMEONE does it (and well) on a studio produced version so i can listen to it without hearing glasses clinking and people talking...

06 Feb 2006, 23:15	#47
Ankie Office manager Join Date: 25.04.2002 Posts: 1,884	I do not get it either. My thoughts about the song are at least the same as Michael describes. My heart skipped quite a few beats when I first heard it.. People say it is about money...... I really do not get that; have Meat to do it on BAT 3 and it will bring you lots of money. No offence to Rob Evan, but if he will somehow release it, how many people will buy it then?

06 Feb 2006, 23:27	#48
Bart Bald Mega Loafer Join Date: 06.03.2003 Location: Holland, but I prefer Greece Posts: 2,243	me and you and then that's it!

07 Feb 2006, 07:15	#49
rockfenris2005 Mega Loafer Join Date: 16.02.2003 Location: Posts: 2,217	Some member had a word with Meat at one of his concerts.. They are lead to believe that Jim offered Meat the song for BAT III, but he didn't like it. Judged on Meat saying (recently) he dislikes Read 'em and Weep and I'm Gonna Love her for Both of Us (possibly my favourite Meat / Jim song), I can believe this. Steinman took back the song, gave it to Evan to sing at the OTT concert, and Meat probably feels "wait a minute. That's my property." Remember also that Meat missed out on Total Eclipse of the Heart and Making Love out of Nothing at All. I once read an interview where Meat said those songs belonged to him. I also read another interview, from the 80s, where they are mentioned as cuts from Midnight at the Lost and Found. Wouldn't it be crazy if a demo, or something, surfaced? But Meat, apparently, didn't like that song. Which I find really hard to believe, because I think (personally) it's the best song Jimmy's written since I'd do Anything for Love and Objects in the Rear View Mirror. And it really continues the feeling that's on Bat. It gives me this image that Bat 3's about old-age. Bat 1 was about teenagers, Bat 2 middle-age and Bat 3 will be an old guy. This song is, whatever the case, a hundred miles ahead of "Only When I Feel" which I think, judging from Meat's interpretation from a crappy bootleg, is the worst song I have ever heard from him. Even worse than Blind Before I Stop territory R.L. EDIT: I take that back. Judging from Rob Evan's rendition it's BAT 1 territory. But the Meat Loaf version I heard is like a really bad demo from Welcome to the Neighborhood. However I will say: it's reminiscent of the arrangement on Original Sin