reed em and weep (Meat Vs Manilow)

[AndyK]

ok so it's a great song!

I'll happily adimt that I prefer Meats version - as I'm sure the majority of peopel on a Meat Loaf Fan Club site would, but I don' t dislike Barry's. Meats may have more passion, but Barrys has more raw emotion I beleive, his version gives a different take on the song. In much the same way that Babs Streisand gives a whole new angle to listen to Left In The Dark from...

Compare this argument in this thread with the following:

Who gave a better performance of Macbeth? Geilgud or Olivier? I'ts down to your own personal liking or dislike of the interpretation that each actor brings to the role isn't it?

[PanicLord]

Originally Posted by evil nickname

What's the freakin' problem here? Ok, so you don't like Barry Manilow's version? Good for you, now stop listening to it, and shut up about it!

This Barry-bashing is getting old.

Can I just point out that this is a Meat v Barry topic?

Originally Posted by Pud

I believe that Meat fans are under the misconception that if you don't like every single thing Meat does then your not a 'true' fan. I find it tiresome and stale when they have to bash another artist for singing a song that Meat has. Meat Loaf isn't the best singer in the world so just get over it.

I agree there are some fans like that, but not me. Have you ever heard what I think about YWIWW? :)

I'm not bashing Barry because he did a Meat song - I just prefer Meat's version for reasons I gave. I much prefer Pandora's Box version of GGGTH (it sounds much "happier").

[evil nickname]

Originally Posted by TRex2003

Can I just point out that this is a Meat v Barry topic? :lol:

Let me then, just for the fun of it, point out that it wasn't until I decided to react to some Barry-bashing.
So now it is a Barry vs. The Loaf thread, but that doesn't mean that Barry-bashing just for the sake of Barry-bashing isn't old. It's just as childish as saying "at least someone agrees with me." As if having someone who agrees with you is going to make any real difference.

[PanicLord]

Fair enough.

I'm with you on the bashing thing though - bashing anyone / thing just for the sake of it is pretty pointless.

[greg]

nobody is bashing barry ,we are talking about 2 artist do a song , and the version what meat gives , is a lot better than barry in , my view you are twisting it, evil nickname go and chill out

[evil nickname]

Originally Posted by greg

nobody is bashing barry

Originally Posted by greg

have any of you seen the video of barry doin , read em and weep. it is total crap , barry sings it boring, with no feeling what so ever, i have steinman jim. talking about barry doin it ,he said when i told about barry ,singing it i got cakes thrown at me ,he only sang it because at the time meats voice was bad at the time , barry dont make me laugh

Originally Posted by greg

we are talking about 2 artist do a song , and the version what meat gives , is a lot better than barry in , my view you are twisting it, evil nickname go and chill out

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you started out saying that some tribute band shoud do "reed em and weep" (sic), right? Then a remark was made about Manilow "slaughtering" the song, and I said that I thought that it was not done to like anything he has done, based on some silly preconception, still right? And that is what we've been discussing (that preconception that Manilow can't do anything good) until you decided to post that "Barry's version is total crap / I'm not bashing it, I'm just stating my opinion as a fact" message of yours.

So this is me chilling out: Sure. Whatever. Twist that anyway you want it.

And do something about that punctuation of yours.

William

[Di]

Originally Posted by TRex2003

I'm not bashing Barry because he did a Meat song - I just prefer Meat's version for reasons I gave. I much prefer Pandora's Box version of GGGTH (it sounds much "happier").

Actually, they both recorded a Jim Steinman song.

I personally prefer Good Girls Go to Heaven on the Bat II version, although Pandora's Box is a favorite of mine all around. The instrumental towards the end of the recording on Bat II just sets me off everytime I hear it... I absolutely adore that small segment, especially when using a headset.

Everyone has different tastes in music and the artists that perform it, that is why there is so much varying music in the world. Each person is entitled to appreciate whomever brings enjoyment to them... no right or wrong in this debate or this thread.

Di
... who thinks Read 'Em and Weep is one of the best 'break up, land in the bed with a tissue, toddy, and your favorite romance novel and cry for a week' songs that she has ever heard no matter who is singing it....

[Bart]

GGGH on BOOH 2 really s*ucks. Meat's voice sound weak and the instrumental part is awfull. However, the live version on LATW is superb. Much better stuff! But, pandora's Box Version is the best, for me.

But 2 things:
I read here somehwere that Meat isn't the best singer in the world. Well, maybe he is not but he IS the one with the best voice and emotion. And that's a fact.

The other thing is: I think that Steinman looses his mind every now and then. i don't understand the things he do. Why he choose Barry Manilow? Why he choose to produce a song for that boysband which I forgot the name right now? Why are some backgroundsingers singing on Nowhere fast? Why he did some lyrics for Webber? Why he sang BFG himself? What the f...has happend to Mss. Hannah? I just don't understand all these things.

But Manilow singing a Steinman classic is like Jason Donovan doing McBeth. Its just not possible.

[evil nickname]

Originally Posted by Bart

The other thing is: I think that Steinman looses his mind every now and then. i don't understand the things he do. Why he choose Barry Manilow?

Manilow chose him. Jim was asked to do a Black Sabbath album, and then he was asked to do something for Manilow. And he thought that it'd be cool to something so far removed from Sabbath in a period of a couple of months. Do the extremes. The Sabbath album didn't happen (that must have been the post-Dio and Gillian era), but he did something for Barry.

Originally Posted by Bart

Why he did some lyrics for Webber?

He was asked by Webber, I guess. They've worked for a week or two together on "Phantom Of The Opera", but that didn't work out at the time.

Originally Posted by Bart

Why he choose to produce a song for that boysband which I forgot the name right now?

No Matter What was from the musical he wrote the lyrics of, and it was recorded for an album with songs from that musical. Steinman did the obvious pop choices (Boyzone, Meat Loaf, Boy George and Bonnie Tyler), while Webber and some other guys did the other (more "musical-style") tracks.

Originally Posted by Bart

Why are some backgroundsingers singing on Nowhere fast?

Why not? Rory Dodd is a great singer, as is Holly Sherwood.

Originally Posted by Bart

Why he sang BFG himself?

Meat couldn't at the moment, or so the story goes.

Originally Posted by Bart

What the f...has happend to Mss. Hannah?

Karine Hannah and her management decided to "pursue other options".

Originally Posted by Bart

But Manilow singing a Steinman classic is like Jason Donovan doing McBeth. Its just not possible.

How about Leonardo DiCaprio doing Romeo and Julliet. Oh wait, that did happen, and I quite liked it

NOTE: Most of these remarks come from the "if I remember correctly" and the "I guess..." files. It might take some some time, but I think I could dig up quotes to prove most of it. I won't do that, though.[/b]

[Bart]

Yes i knew most of these stories. i knwo the story of Hannah but i meant another boy band. the english one in early nineties. Forgot the name.
But to mention all these thing i try to make it clear that he made/makes weird decisions. No planning at all. waste of talent, that is what i meant.

Waste of talent.

[AndyK]

Originally Posted by Bart

Yes i knew most of these stories. i knwo the story of Hannah but i meant another boy band. the english one in early nineties. Forgot the name.
But to mention all these thing i try to make it clear that he made/makes weird decisions. No planning at all. waste of talent, that is what i meant.

Waste of talent.

It was a Take That single that Jim produced in the early nineties, can't remember which one right now.

[evil nickname]

It seems to me like Jim takes on whatever he likes out of what he gets offered.
If I were to be asked if I'd like to produce an album for Black Sabbath, and then they ask me if I'd like to do a song with Barry Manilow, I think I would like the contrast.
I can see why Jim remixed a single for Take That. Wasn't that in the time that everyone was looking down at boybands? So it may not be a popular choice, but I've never seen Jim as a person to take things on just for the sake of popularity.

[RichieBoy]

Whoa whoa whoa!!!!!!

Lets just all calm down shall we???

Dear me, I've been away for a while and I come back to arguments in the community.

Right, my two pennies are going in - everybody is entitled to an opinion! EvilNickname what's your problem? As far as I can see Greg has voiced a valid opinion that Manilow's version was crap compared to ML's, a truthful fact!

Everyone else is passing comment on this topic without much questioning they either agree or disagree - but oh no not you!!!

And how is it "childish" to have someone agree with your opinion. Surely in my opinion it is more childish and very, very rude to be picky about someones punctuation - what gives you the right to do that? How do you know what level their English skills are?

And do something about that punctuation of yours.

The face next to it, to my interpretation, shows sarcasim - If that is the case you are a very pathetic little person.

I have had people agree with my comments in past topics and I have involved them in the topic - Am I "childish"? If I am I will give you my address and you can tell me to my face.

Regards,

Rich

[evil nickname]

Originally Posted by RichieBoy

Right, my two pennies are going in - everybody is entitled to an opinion! EvilNickname what's your problem? As far as I can see Greg has voiced a valid opinion that Manilow's version was crap compared to ML's, a truthful fact!

Everyone else is passing comment on this topic without much questioning they either agree or disagree - but oh no not you!!!

I have absolutely no problem with anyone who thinks that Barry Manilow's version of "Read 'Em And Weep" is inferior to Meat Loaf's. I do have a problem with people who state their opinion for a fact, or voice an opinion on something not based on that thing's merrit, but rather a general preconception.
You do the same: you state as a "truthful fact" that compared to Meat Loaf's version, Manilow's is crap. It isn't. It's your opinion.
It is my opinion that a lot of people (and as far as I'm concerned, greg and you fall in that category) dismiss Manilow's version for two reasons: a) Manilow is not Meat Loaf, and b) it seems to be "not done" to like anything Manilow has done. I think that's ignorant, I pointed that out, and that is when this whole thing started.

I'll be the last one to say that someone isn't entitled to their opinion, but I'll reserve the right to comment on those if I see fit.
You, on the other hand, say that everyone is entitled to their opinion, when it seems to me that you think that my opinion may not concern another person's opinion. In my opinion, that doesn't make sense.

Originally Posted by RichieBoy

And how is it "childish" to have someone agree with your opinion.

I have had people agree with my comments in past topics and I have involved them in the topic - Am I "childish"? If I am I will give you my address and you can tell me to my face.

So first we take things out of context, and then we imply physical abuse. Nice one.

Maybe childish wasn't the right word, but since English is not my native language it seemed like the right one. Anyway, when he said that, he dismissed someone else's valid opinion. And you can't tell me you would approve of that, or would you?

And I did some cuting and pasting, so here's another thing:

Originally Posted by RichieBoy

Surely in my opinion it is more childish and very, very rude to be picky about someones punctuation - what gives you the right to do that? How do you know what level their English skills are?

The face next to it, to my interpretation, shows sarcasim - If that is the case you are a very pathetic little person.

First, as I said, English is not my native language. I'm from The Netherlands, hence the NL in my location. Usually, I speak Dutch, and I know that my English could be a better. I am making an effort to produce proper English every time I make a post here, or on any other board where English is the set language.
Secondly: with a typical English name like Greg, a location called lincoln (which sounds like it must be in either the UK, Ireland, the US, Canada or Australia), I think it's safe to assume English is his native language. And the way he produces it makes my head split.
Thirdly: I think a lot of people abuse smilies. They jot them down without thinking about it. When I insert a wink (), I do that like I what it is suppossed to mean: a wink. Lighten up, don't take it all too serious, I'm only joking. That.

As a final note: I don't like the tone of this post I've just responded to a bit. Patronizing and implying physical abuse. Attack the words, not the person is a concept I like and use.

Take care,

William

[RSG]

Barry's is like a feath tickleing my underarm, no matter what I can do I just can't help but laugh at take on it. No offence to the enjoyers of his version, but Meat's packs a lot of real emotion into it.

[Pudding]

Originally Posted by RichieBoy

Whoa whoa whoa!!!!!!

Lets just all calm down shall we???

Dear me, I've been away for a while and I come back to arguments in the community.

Actually no ones arguing and I think it's people like yourself that misinterpret a discussion as an argument that gets either threads locked or people banned for a week.

Originally Posted by RichieBoy

Right, my two pennies are going in - everybody is entitled to an opinion! EvilNickname what's your problem? As far as I can see Greg has voiced a valid opinion that Manilow's version was crap compared to ML's, a truthful fact!

If that's true what you say then it's an hypocritical statement. How can you say on one hand that everyone is entitled to an opinion yet you disagree with Evil Nickname and claim your opinion to be a truthful fact?. If it is a matter of opinion then no one's either right and no one's wrong, it's opinion and NOT truthful fact.

It doesn't matter whether or not you like Meats version better or Barry's version better, it's all subjective opinion. I personally prefer Barry's, the production is far superior - IMO. Meats voice isn't what it should be on the whole album and not just that song - IMO and Meat Loaf isn't the only singer in the world that can sing with emotion - try Steve Balsamo when he's singing Gethsemane for a start.

I think with any 'which version is better' topic people should be completely honest and not just blindy believe that their 'idol' IS the best because they were the first to put it to vinyl. I still think that a lot of people on this board only say Meat is better or the best at something because they don't want to say otherwise for fear of retribution. Being honest is not a crime.

Pud

[Rob The Badger]

First of all, I'm not going to trapse in here and spout off at how much I despise musical snobbery, that would be hypocracy, what I can spout about is things like this:

Originally Posted by Bart

I read here somehwere that Meat isn't the best singer in the world. Well, maybe he is not but he IS the one with the best voice and emotion. And that's a fact.

No. That is not a fact.
It is your opinion.

For example, I will now tell you ten people, who in my opinion are more expressive vocalists than Meat Loaf.

Bob Dylan
Ian Curtis (of Joy Division)
Neil Young
Phil Elvrum
Kate Bush
Aretha Franklin
Marvin Gaye
Billy Bragg
Lou Reed.

Now, some of these people's music doesn't appeal to me in the slightest, but I will credit them as amazing vocalists. Not singers, vocalists.

Meat Loaf has always relied on Steinman's songs for the emotion. Perhaps not so much with Heaven Can Wait and For Crying Out Loud, wonderful vocal performances there.

But I think Meat Loaf has a very limited range of emotion, like Orlando Bloom.


NB: This was all in relation to the quote posted, thank you.

[Bart]

First of all: i don't care what other people think or say.

Second: i thought I am on a Meat Loaf Forum. That meenas that I am a fan. If that;s so than it is a fact that he has the best voice. It is strange that this seems to be a Meatforum where people say that he hasn't.

But more strange is it that people arguw with me here and that they are saying that he hasn't the best voice. You know: this is a Meatforum. Hmm, ,i do not make my point clear now. But it is real busy at work rite now.

[AndyK]

Puds said it all above really. Keep the discussion just that a discussion about opinions and tastes, lets not turn this into a slanging match please!

[Rob The Badger]

Originally Posted by Bart

First of all: i don't care what other people think or say.

Second: i thought I am on a Meat Loaf Forum. That meenas that I am a fan. If that;s so than it is a fact that he has the best voice. It is strange that this seems to be a Meatforum where people say that he hasn't.

But more strange is it that people arguw with me here and that they are saying that he hasn't the best voice. You know: this is a Meatforum. Hmm, ,i do not make my point clear now. But it is real busy at work rite now.

No, dear.
A fact is something that has been scientifically proven.
Your opinion is valid, as is mine. I am merely pointing out that it is just that, an opinion. Not a fact.

Also, we're not arguing here, we're discussing. Well, some of us.

[Pudding]

Originally Posted by Bart

First of all: i don't care what other people think or say.

Obviously not

Originally Posted by Bart

Second: i thought I am on a Meat Loaf Forum. That meenas that I am a fan. If that;s so than it is a fact that he has the best voice. It is strange that this seems to be a Meatforum where people say that he hasn't.

Just because you admire someone and their art or craft doesn't mean you have to kiss their arse in everything they do.

I personally look at Meat as the total package and not that he's the best singer, the best actor, the best stage presence etc because if you analyzed each thing that Meat Loaf does then he isn't the best at anything. But as a total package he's one of the best.

Pud

[tbuck]

WOW, now this was interesting reading! :o

So much to comment on I'm lost right now. I'm not a music critic, I know crap about production or this or that, I just know what I like. And I think that's true about the vast majority of the population (I also think they have crap for taste ).

Don't even remember whether I've heard Manilow's version of "Read it and Weep". I'm sure I have, just didn't stick w/ me I guess. I don't like his style, I don't like to listen to him in general, that's just my taste. Only song of his I find memorable is "Copacabana" because of the circumstances and friends when I heard it for the first time. A lot of my musical likes are related to the times when I first enjoyed the song.

Is that so odd? I love the song "Take This Job and Shove It" because it played in the store the day I quit a really shit job! Is it great music, I don't care, I love it!

I listen to music I like for enjoyment, to enhance my life. Not to get into interminable debates over who did this better or whatever. If anyone wants too, that's fine for them, not my cup of tea usually.

But sometimes...only have heard Baba in her vid of "Left in the Dark". This is JMO, but she sucks, smoking a cig and drinking a soda, lack of emotion, she looks bored to death! But that's just my take.

While if Meat looked bored during a vid, I'd take it as part of his performance, LOL. But has he ever done that! I don't THINK so.

Enjoy the music, whatever you enjoy,
T

[greg]

you get so many people, doin covers of other peoples music , there as been so many times when i have , been in the pub , and when the singer , shouts out. any request , ill go up and ask , can you do me a meat loaf song mate , i allways get the same reply .NO CAN'T DO THAT MATE.you tell me how many artist has done a meat cover , i know we had boyzone doin no matter what , and barry doin read em and weep , im glad you don't get many artist doin meat covers , and why cos it just dont come across the same way , as when meat does it agree or not agree

[Rob The Badger]

Originally Posted by greg

you get so many people, doin covers of other peoples music , there as been so many times when i have , been in the pub , and when the singer , shouts out. any request , ill go up and ask , can you do me a meat loaf song mate , i allways get the same reply .NO CAN'T DO THAT MATE.you tell me how many artist has done a meat cover , i know we had boyzone doin no matter what , and barry doin read em and weep , im glad you don't get many artist doin meat covers , and why cos it just dont come across the same way , as when meat does it agree or not agree

Boyzone recorded it first.

[greg]

Originally Posted by Rob The Badger

Boyzone recorded it first.