Patti

[nightinr]

Thanks for the info. Was "Freak" released commercially in any form?

Always difficult to find that big hit from an album. Rightly or wrongly it often defines the commercial success of an album. I know I'm digressing away from the original thread (so my apologies), but do we know why Blind as a Bat wasn't realeased as a single from Bat 3? Imo it's clearly the best track on the album.

[letsgotoofar]

It was not. The timing coincided with Disney's Hunchback, and I don't remember the exact circumstances anymore, but that basically killed Steve's project's chances.

"Blind as a Bat" was intended to be a single and got as far as a promo release, but the plug was pulled (apparently in favor of "Cry Over Me," since that ultimately got the push) and it wasn't really explained why.

[nightinr]

Seemed such a bizarre decision to release Cry Over Me as a single. One of the weaker tracks from the album. Did Meat ever sing it live? Don't recall it being part of the Three Bats tour?

Meat or somebody clearly liked Blind as a Bat as it was performed on a few Tv programmes

[ThatWriterGuy]

Track 5.

"All You Got to Do is Believe"

Probably one of my favourites.

It's not 'hit single' material in the way you'd think of the hits from Bat II, but the purpose of this record seemed to be a side step away (and beyond) that to some degree.

It's a huge, bombastic, heartfelt, adventurous album -- you can hear the scope of what Van Zandt was going for. He's channeling the Wagnerian Steinman thing in some of the arrangements, but he captures the rock n roll incredibly well (obviously, coming from the E Street Band, which was Jim's inspiration, in part). It's also not hokey in the sense of being explicitly the Hunchback of Notre Dame. I mean, that narrative is in there, for sure, but -- with a slight twist -- you could work a version that leans even less on that notion literally and relies more on the character story in a metaphorical way (much akin to IWDAFL, but heightened).

But here comes the rub. There are two tiers of songs on this record. Songs that work as standalone tracks, and songs that are essentially story pieces presented 'in character' (see Phantom of the Opera, Tommy, etc for an idea of the presentation, lyrics, and musical/rock crossover).

Again, given a little development on some of the the latter tracks -- mostly in the verses only, as the chorus are ALL killer -- it really could've been something else.

[proctorloaf]

So who do we sweet-talk for the link to the demo tracks? mwah x

[ThatWriterGuy]

Originally Posted by proctorloaf

So who do we sweet-talk for the link to the demo tracks? mwah x

Haha, nice try, but there's no online link that I know of (it's frustrating in a way, because I wish you guys could hear it. Especially now we're into the drought years where new material is practically non existent).

Best I can do is maybe post up the full track list?

If anyone's interested?

[letsgotoofar]

Sure. Question, if you know: was it just Little Steven writing, or did he have collaborators? I only ask because it's sort of always been portrayed as a solo -- or at least spearheaded by him -- deal, and yet tracks like "Amnesty" (Sammy Hagar) and "Not a Dry Eye" (Diane Warren) were apparently part of this.

[ThatWriterGuy]

As far as I know, it was majority Van Zandt (inc. concept) but with external writers on the recognizable tracks that made Neighborhood. I could be wrong, so don't quote me, but that was my understanding at the time.

[letsgotoofar]

No worries, just trying to nail a few things down. I wasn't sure, as you may recall from my initial info-dump reply, whether he absorbed those tracks trying to make it appeal to Meat or if they were part of it from the beginning.

(Side note: gotta shoot you an email, it's been way too long!)

[proctorloaf]

The full track list would be amazing please!

[letsgotoofar]

While we wait for TWG to post the track list, here's the relevant excerpt from Van Zandt's memoir, from a chapter titled "Seven Years in the Desert," which chronicles his time on projects that didn't work out. I love his authorial voice, very conversational, very New Jersey:

A guy named Allen Kovac called to say that he had taken over as Meat Loaf's manager when Meat Loaf had fallen out with Jim Steinman. Would I write and produce a song?

I'd met Meat Loaf when Steve Popovich defied the industry's conventional wisdom and worked relentlessly for a year to break him. He was a sweetheart of a guy. Happy to help.

I can write a song for whoever asks. No problem. It usually comes to me within a few minutes. If it's a script, the song comes as soon as I read it. If it's a film, as soon as I see it.

But a week went by... and nothing. I analyzed the problem.

Meat Loaf was very popular.

He was charming and talented.

But there was one thing he wasn't.

Meat Loaf was not an artist.

So what was he? I asked myself.

An actor! I answered.

Aha, I thought! I'm not going to write him a song; I'll write him a show!

Of course, I didn't intend to make the Meat Loaf project my life's work, so rather than conceive of a show from scratch, I went in search of a classic that could be adapted.

Meat Loaf was big. Freaky. Kind of awkward in his own skin. He must have been made fun of his whole life. His nickname was Meat Loaf, for crissake!

So with whom in classic literature did he have the most in common?

Bada bing!

Quasimodo!

The Hunchback of Notre-Dame!

Freaky ~~~~ing book.

I don't know how it was a hit in 1831. Netflix must have had a slow month. But let me tell you, Victor Hugo definitely had issues. Here's the CliffsNotes version:

An evil fifteenth-century priest wants to ~~~~ an innocent peasant girl who tries her best to avoid him. Meanwhile, a soulful hunchback dude falls in love with her, but she becomes infatuated with some shallow soldier type. The priest gets pissed, and ready for this, he hangs her! Like, by the neck until dead.

Hitchcock's Psycho and then some!

Maybe that's where he got the idea.

And how's this for a happy ending? The hunchback whacks the priest, finds the girl's dead body, lies down next to her, and starves to death so he can spend eternity with her.

Now is that a hit, or is that a hit?

I guess compared to cholera and bubonic plague, it must have qualified as comic relief.

On top of that bizarre plot, the book takes an endless digression, even worse than one of mine, discussing the cathedral in excruciating detail. Very weird, until you remember the book was actually titled Notre-Dame de Paris 1482.

The comings and goings of a bunch of fatally flawed humans will always be temporary, but Notre-Dame Cathedral is forever (or at least until some asshole sets it on fire six hundred years later!). Which makes it the first existential novel, doesn't it? Beats Dostoevsky by thirty years at least!

Anyway, I rewrote it with a happier ending -- not a high bar -- wrote half the songs, and demoed them with Mark Alexander playing everything and a Meat Loaf soundalike singing. I was quite proud of it. A whole new genre for me, and a step in the theatrical direction I wanted to go. I delivered my masterpiece and... silence.

After a few days, Allen and I met. "Meat doesn't want it."

"What?"

"He can't sing it."

"What is he talking about? I wrote it specifically for his voice, in his key, with melodies in his range."

"I'll tell you the truth," he said. "I think the demo guy intimidated him."

Intimidated him?

He was imitating him for ~~~~s sake!

Allen shook his head.

No-go.

I thought ~~~~ it, another six or seven songs and I've got a Broadway show. Several producers loved it and were considering it when Disney put out its animated Hunchback of Notre Dame. The producers assumed Broadway was the next stop, since Disney owned part of it, and ran for the hills.

Nobody heard it.

Elsewhere in the book, when he discusses Bruce Springsteen absorbing some of the theatricality that emerged in the rock world, he also name-checks Meat as "an actor who modeled his style on a completely fictionalized idea of Bruce, to the point where he used Roy Bittan and Max Weinberg on his break-through album." That's certainly one way to look at it; Rundgren assumed as much himself, after all.

[letsgotoofar]

P.S. This is speculation on my part, but when I hear "Meat Loaf soundalike" and faintly recall gossip about how Jim picked up some of his demo vocalists, in a sort of reverse "pull Patti out of Jim's play" scenario, I wonder if this is how Kyle Gordon (he of "Scarpia" fame) entered the picture.