LETS GET PATTI RUSSO BACK IN THE NEVERLAND EXPRESS!

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by lorenzoduke

Caryl said 'why expect the decision (to terminate Patti's contract) to be reversed'. The only rationale I can think of is because it has happened once before.

But not quite the same. The previous time she chose to leave, and later Meat asked her to return. He did not make the decision and later reverse it. Otherwise I agree with most of what you said.

You said, "I think he knows that the majority of fans who've been coming to the live shows for years like to see him with Patti." I think a significant number of people on forums like this may well do, but perhaps not the majority in the average 10K+ arena, and not to the extent that they are seriously put out by her not being there. Certainly the majority of fans around me at Newmarket were wholly unaware of any change; they had come to see Meat Loaf .. and that's what was delivered, just as it said on the ticket. On FB there are very few comments now about it. But I do agree that it's reasonable to think that whatever the reason was for her contract to be ended, it would have been sufficient for him not to seek to change it now.

Originally Posted by Dave

And what the hell as the consumer of the product known as the artist doing business as Meat Loaf are we doing??? Consumers purchase product generating the revenue behind the brand.

What the hell are we doing? Discussing something in which we have no real say I think, for we are not in a position to make decisions as to who Meat employs. It's not quite the same as a product in my view .. manufacturers don't consult consumers about their manufacturing process or who they employ, and performers don't usually ask their fans to advise, audition, or decide on who to include as backing singers in their band.

[Evil One]

Originally Posted by Adje

So basically you're saying that you don't have any symphathy for her because people don't care about you. Did you ever think that this may be the reason why...

No, you've quite clearly taken lines from two separate paragraphs in order to take my words out of context. I have plenty of sympathy for the child whose parents are killed in an accident, or the poor sod born without legs. However I do not have sympathy for someone who had a great job and then blew it by getting fired. Let's not tiptoe about the issue here, Patti's unprofessional behaviour led to her termination from the band.

[PanicLord]

Originally Posted by Dave

And what the hell as the consumer of the product known as the artist doing business as Meat Loaf are we doing??? Consumers purchase product generating the revenue behind the brand.

Which confers no hiring or firing privileges to us the consumer. This is none of our business. Patti was awesome but she has gone. Deal with it and move on.

[Adje]

Originally Posted by Evil One

Patti's unprofessional behaviour led to her termination from the band.

Ahhh, it was based on speculation. No worries then Carry on

[Evil One]

Originally Posted by Adje

Ahhh, it was based on speculation

Not at all, but relaying personal correspondence in public is not good behaviour.

[nightinr]

Would you really describe it as "unprofessional behaviour" or a misunderstanding?

[Adje]

Originally Posted by Evil One

Not at all, but relaying personal correspondence in public is not good behaviour.

I know, but I'm also sure that your source was oposite to mine. It wouldn't surprise me if both sources carry equal weight (figuraly speaken) in the matter. And it's clear that both sources shared different stories to a close group of people. And with both sories so far apart it remains speculation

BTW, I think both parties are better off with the decision. And a reunion should not be considered by either party

[JennaG]

Originally Posted by nightinr

Would you really describe it as "unprofessional behaviour" or a misunderstanding?

I would certainly describe it as unprofessional based on her public criticism of her previous employer. In a lot of cases, that sort of behaviour is seen as a no-no and is poor etiquette regardless of your reasons for departure.

[LucyK!]

I'm not entirely sure how you can post "Patti's unprofessional behaviour led to her termination from the band." and then follow that up with...

Originally Posted by Evil One

Not at all, but relaying personal correspondence in public is not good behaviour.

[nightinr]

Do you think Patti's behaviour was worthy of supposedly being sacked by email? A quiet word may have helped without going through the formal route?

[JennaG]

Originally Posted by nightinr

Do you think Patti's behaviour was worthy of supposedly being sacked by email? A quiet word may have helped without going through the formal route?

Unless you actually know what went on how can you say how the issue should have been dealt with? Meat himself said that it WAS more than one email.

I'm not speculating based on rumours, I'm commenting based on what information WAS out there at the time and it is entirely based on that that I feel that it was unprofessional of Patti to criticise a previous employer in such a public environment.

[Julie in the rv mirror]

Originally Posted by CarylB

It's not quite the same as a product in my view .. manufacturers don't consult consumers about their manufacturing process or who they employ, and performers don't usually ask their fans to advise, audition, or decide on who to include as backing singers in their band.

No, but they do often take fans' preferences into account. After all, happy fans means more tickets and albums sold.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by nightinr

Do you think Patti's behaviour was worthy of supposedly being sacked by email? A quiet word may have helped without going through the formal route?

This has been done to death, (suggest you seek out the previous thread if you missed it at the time). Not one email, and as you don't know exactly what led up to her contract being ended, what's the point in suggesting "a quiet word" might have helped? Apparently not.

What happened, what led to a decision, exactly how it was managed etc is really none of our business. It's one thing to bring some kind of rallying call to get her back (with which I happen to disagree, along with others) .. but to hash over again all the speculation about what happened, what else might have been done etc is just repeating the pointless speculation at the time.

I'm sure you didn't start the thread in order to do this .. but I cannot see the point in going over all the old ground and arguments again, when there are no further facts which can be posted.

[stretch37]

this thread is so frustrating. I guess it speaks to how little has been going on lately lol...something to argue about...Yeah, we could all speculate for years and not find out any more. Hopefully Patti is ok and feeling better, and hopefully its nothing to do with Meat and the NLE. For all we know it could be a personal issue completely unrelated. It has all happened and all of this back and forth bashing each other's opinions and Meat and Patti's decisions is not going to change that. Hey, if we want some friendly debate, lets talk about the impending war between the EU and Russia.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

No, but they do often take fans' preferences into account. After all, happy fans means more tickets and albums sold.

But as Panic Lord said .. being a fan does confers no hiring or firing privileges to us the consumer. He also said "This is none of our business. Patti was awesome but she has gone. Deal with it and move on." I agree completely. Fits with my philosophy of buying my ticket and getting my ass to the venue to see Meat Loaf, and leaving the decisions on line-up to him, playlists, arrangements etc to him and the band .. they do it so well Worked perfect for me for 36 years, still does

Saw plenty of happy fans in Vegas, expect to see many more when Meat tours the USA next summer, and many, many seem delighted and excited about a new album .. and one which has a whopping contribution from Jim Steinman

[chairboys]

Originally Posted by renegadeangel

Whatever happened happened. Its in the past and everyone is moving forward. People make decisions and sometimes regret them.

A case of Patti Rue-sso

[AndrewG]

For a lot of people, myself included, what has become kind of known as brand "Meat Loaf", it is more than just the person. It conveys the singer, the funny performer and the songs of Jim Steinman and for a long period it also conveyed Patti Russo and certain members of the NLE who indeed have come and gone. Sure you can take all those other elements away and many fans will still flock but it's hardly surprising some fans would like to see a reunion etc. regardless of the reasons for the break up.

It won't happen I guess and because of the lack of touring dates in the future ahead there perhaps is little point from Patti's career perspective anyway.

For her own career she probably should have gone solo early 2000s /2002 and continue with musicals and ad hoc appearances whilst finding something for her self that could spark a career lasting beyond where she is now. It's always dangerous relying on others taking you places. You only get one life and have to sometimes question the path you are on I think. I'm actually surprised the touring with Meat in the UK lasted till 2013 as it did. People use the term "family" a lot when talking about colleagues and friends etc. Personally I see straight through that as it never seems just as a reliable setup as your real family usually is.

It was superb watching Patti perform solo and it is a shame if she doesn't headline on her own again. In fact in April she reminded me of how amazing it was seeing Meat Loaf for the first time live 17 years earlier. Effortlessly singing very controlled with so much power and at the same time giving a real connection to the songs and of course a lot of humour. My main criticism would be the language she uses at times. It also irritated me somewhat with Meat Loaf when he went down that route. Swearing before singing Object in the rear view mirror. For me personally it doesn't work. I have no problem with foul language but to me in a musical performance it seems an unnecessary way of getting laughs considering their performance talents.

It's a shame if Patti can't continue with a solo music career that pays her way. I sincerely hope she can put her voice to use, she also still has the looks I think. But if she can't make it through in that area well she shouldn't feel too bad as she certainly isn't the only one. Unfortunately this world is obsessed with youth and most people just don't listen to this type of music anymore, certainly if you don't have the name. In fact to me it seems that Meat Loaf tribute acts have more name value than say Patti Russo. It's pretty harsh but the reality in which we live and we can't really blame a few individuals for that I think.

[tonyloaf]

we can say what we want but at then end of the day its not our place to call, only 2 people really need to know.

[ShelbyLee]

Originally Posted by Evil One

Let's not tiptoe about the issue here, Patti's unprofessional behaviour led to her termination from the band.

Originally Posted by Evil One

Not at all, but relaying personal correspondence in public is not good behaviour.

Your comments make no sense. She revealed that she was fired by email AFTER she was fired. When she was a member of the band, she never did anything to be considered "unprofessional". She rarely even posted on social media. In 2006, she never made any remarks about Meat and the Bat 3 situation.
Meat, himself, said on FB she worked hard and did a great job. Things change- was the only explanation given.
Patti said she has no idea why she was fired.


I think anyone with an empathetic heart can understand how difficult this situation is. Devoting 20 years of your life to a job and considering your boss and co-workers to be like family, then suddenly being fired and not understanding why.

[loaferman61]

Meat said that she was right to quit because he let somebody talk him into something that never should have happened. He also said it would never happen again. These are factual statements made by Meat that are on video.

http://youtu.be/t4xQVZ1oZFo

Obviously they fell out afterward and it did happen again except the second time she was sacked instead of quitting. I doubt Patti is looking to go back yet again and I do not blame her one bit - my personal opinion of course, in her shoes I'd probably not go back if I could. But I would never say never because it can come back to bite you.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

No, but they do often take fans' preferences into account. After all, happy fans means more tickets and albums sold.

That reminds me of an old joke by a Dutch cabaret artist who said he was talking to a famous producer who advised him "Yeah you shouldn't give a damn about the audience." "Which audience?" "Exactly".

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by ShelbyLee

I think anyone with an empathetic heart can understand how difficult this situation is. Devoting 20 years of your life to a job and considering your boss and co-workers to be like family, then suddenly being fired and not understanding why.

If my boss says "We are like family" I would say "yeah sure" but really think differently. No offence. Everyone is replaceable on this planet if you are in the business of making money. Even Michael Jackson is still releasing albums after he died 5 years ago.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by ShelbyLee

She revealed that she was fired by email

Meat has said this is not so, that the email was confirmation but not a single communication out of the blue. Yet you seem not to accept this

Patti said she has no idea why she was fired.

Yet you seem to accept this, as you say "then suddenly being fired and not understanding why"

Originally Posted by loaferman61

Meat said that she was right to quit because he let somebody talk him into something that never should have happened. He also said it would never happen again. These are factual statements made by Meat that are on video.

This is what he said when he welcomed her back, and referred to bowing to the record company and agreeing to have Marion Raven on the featured single, and then for her to open shows and to sing the song with him during the show.

Obviously they fell out afterward and it did happen again except the second time she was sacked instead of quitting.

You do not know what led to her contract being ended last year, but it was certainly not a repeat of what happened which caused her to walk out before. "It" did not happen again.

[ShelbyLee]

Originally Posted by CarylB

Meat has said this is not so, that the email was confirmation but not a single communication out of the blue. Yet you seem not to accept this



Yet you seem to accept this, as you say "then suddenly being fired and not understanding why"

Caryl, you have taken my comments out of context. I was replying to Evil One's comment about her being fired for inappropriate behavior and then saying the inappropriate behavior was revealing she was fired in an email. That makes no sense. She obviously didn't reveal her firing until AFTER she was fired so how is that the "inappropriate" behavior that led to her firing?

I am not suggesting it was their only communication. Patti has said she doesn't know why, Meat has not given a reason, so that is the only info we know for sure.

[ShelbyLee]

Originally Posted by ShelbyLee

Caryl, you have taken my comments out of context. I was replying to Evil One's comment about her being fired for inappropriate behavior and then saying the inappropriate behavior was revealing she was fired in an email. That makes no sense. She obviously didn't reveal her firing until AFTER she was fired so how is that the "inappropriate" behavior that led to her firing?

I am not suggesting it was their only communication. Patti has said she doesn't know why, Meat has not given a reason, so that is the only info we know for sure.

Correction:
He said "Unprofessional" not inappropriate.