Debate

[melon]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Call me Eric Vetro if you have to.

Eric Vetro, you are not.

Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Forum Runner

[JennaG]

Originally Posted by Evil Ernie

And heated arguments are fun. It's the same reason why political debates are fun. There's no point to having a message board where everybody agrees all the time.

Heated arguments are NOT fun. Discussions ARE and it's perfectly possible in life to have a discussion where opinions differ without it resorting to a heated argument.

Originally Posted by anotherday

SORRY but it seems to be going in circles...

Something that seems to happen rather a lot around here.

Originally Posted by LucyK!

He felt rattled and blew his top, some people are great at holding their tongues, others not and clearly he's not. Does that make what he said excusable or any more pleasant to read? Absolutely not, it's actually quite offensive, but who here hasn't ever gone mental and come out with stuff they regret?!

The guy f*cked up. Move on.

I agree with this. I think most of us have made whatever point we have decided to make and now things just seem to be going around in circles. I think it's time to move on too.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by JennaG

I agree with this. I think most of us have made whatever point we have decided to make and now things just seem to be going around in circles. I think it's time to move on too.

I'm sure several people would have liked to have had this thread locked the minute it started and simply forgiven Meat no matter what he would have written. Actually just a few posts back proved exactly that some people have NOT had a chance to make their viewpoint clear just because they do not log in every two seconds.

Just because someone does not share your viewpoint doesn't mean to say they should be silenced.

[JennaG]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

I'm sure several people would have liked to have had this thread locked the minute it started and simply forgiven Meat no matter what he would have written. Actually just a few posts back proved exactly that some people have NOT had a chance to make their viewpoint clear just because they do not log in every two seconds.

Just because someone does not share your viewpoint doesn't mean to say they should be silenced.

I'm not talking about the people that are commenting on this matter for the first time, I'm talking about those people that seem to keep on about it but you're right, they shouldn't be silenced. After all we all have the right to say what we want.

I'M SORRY I SPOKE.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by JennaG

I'm not talking about the people that are commenting on this matter for the first time, I'm talking about those people that seem to keep on about it but you're right, they shouldn't be silenced. After all we all have the right to say what we want.

I'M SORRY I SPOKE.

Fair enough I understand what you are now saying but I've seen the "let's move on" thing lead to only thing on this site.... and in actual fact that didn't stop Meat.

[chairboys]

I have fallen into the "time to move on camp".
Don't you know this thread was started a whopping FIVE days ago!
Amazing how one can get "bored" with it all.
I hope if Meat explodes again it is when he channels his frustrations into a super-charged performance for the fan club.

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by chairboys

Don't you know this thread was started a whopping FIVE days ago!

And since FIVE days someone who came to this board on Sunday just to be rude to its users has missed the opportunity to apologize and repair some of the damage that has been done by that action. Go to a webside, insult "97 %" of its users and leave the people you attacked argueing among each other. Nice...

[loaferman61]

Originally Posted by Sarge

And since FIVE days someone who came to this board on Sunday just to be rude to its users has missed the opportunity to apologize and repair some of the damage that has been done by that action. Go to a webside, insult "97 %" of its users and leave the people you attacked argueing among each other. Nice...

Anyone surprised by the lack of any reconciliation message, let alone an apology in 5 days? Anyone? Bueller...Bueller

[Devil's Son]

Originally Posted by Sarge

And since FIVE days someone who came to this board on Sunday just to be rude to its users has missed the opportunity to apologize and repair some of the damage that has been done by that action. Go to a webside, insult "97 %" of its users and leave the people you attacked argueing among each other. Nice...

tienes razón - you're right
but i guess there won't be an apologize and this thread will die as time goes by and i guess it will happen again. the question is how many of the users/mod/admin will get more and more tired of this in the future?

[Mr. Happy]

Originally Posted by Sarge

Go to a webside, insult "97 %" of its users and leave the people you attacked argueing among each other. Nice...

It wasn't actually 97%, that was an exaggeration - a devious yet genius ploy to find out who was a real fan and who isn't. A scheme...better, a master plan, if you will. If you're offended, you're just a part of the problem!

Remember?

[Sarge]

That's indeed very clever. Just leave it to the victims of your wrath to figure out to which degree you "exaggerated" your numbers and who actually belonged to which category. That way you can easily shift the responsibility for your actions on to someone else. Brilliant!

[Paul Richardson]

... create civil war, and watch the forces of good overcome the forces of evil, with only the righteous, the loyal true fans, left standing ...

[loaferman61]

Originally Posted by Mr. Happy

It wasn't actually 97%, that was an exaggeration - a devious yet genius ploy to find out who was a real fan and who isn't. A scheme...better, a master plan, if you will. If you're offended, you're just a part of the problem!

Remember?

So does he really not want our money? Or was that an exaggeration too? If you are in the exaggerated 97% you are not supposed to buy the CD right?

[R.]

It looks like some of you are just around here for the fun of trolling. On one hand you complain, that we're running around in circles and on the other hand you're doing your very best to stir the pot again and again. I'm not yet sure what to do, wether I hand out a few trolling infractions resulting in a ban or simply lock the thread. You'll find out soon enough.

[TheDoode]

Originally Posted by R.

It looks like some of you are just around here for the fun of trolling. On one hand you complain, that we're running around in circles and on the other hand you're doing your very best to stir the pot again and again. I'm not yet sure what to do, wether I hand out a few trolling infractions resulting in a ban or simply lock the thread. You'll find out soon enough.

I was starting to think along the same lines, but I don't think banning or thread locking is such a great idea. Just a wild stab in the dark but maybe asking them not to inflame the topic further might be better than dictating - which is kind of how it comes across.

[CarylB]

This is Rainer's site, he hosts it, we are here at his invitation. He doesn't "come across as a dictator" to me. I think he is firm and fair, and I think to post that is rather out of order, and not within the forum guidelines. If I have any issue with Rainer's decisions, or those of a moderator, I contact them off the board as requested.

[Vickip]

Originally Posted by CarylB

This is Rainer's site, he hosts it, we are here at his invitation. He doesn't "come across as a dictator" to me. I think he is firm and fair, and I think to post that is rather out of order, and not within the forum guidelines. If I have any issue with Rainer's decisions, or those of a moderator, I contact them off the board as requested.

Exactly.

[TheDoode]

Originally Posted by CarylB

This is Rainer's site, he hosts it, we are here at his invitation. He doesn't "come across as a dictator" to me. I think he is firm and fair, and I think to post that is rather out of order, and not within the forum guidelines. If I have any issue with Rainer's decisions, or those of a moderator, I contact them off the board as requested.

It's not out of order, Caryl. It's a discussion forum, and if it's going to stay active and have users engaged in discussion, silence by way of claiming ownership isn't going to go down that well. If you create something within the public domain dedicated to a popular artist, you have to accept that they're going to want to use it for debate. I'm glad that R set this site up in the first place, but I do think that on occasion he can come across as being a bit dictatorial. I'd like to be part of an equal community. Where people are treated equally. The fact that this thread is still open and relatively un-edited is a positive step I think, and I'm pretty impressed that R and the mods have gone there.

[robgomm]

I think R is fair and just on this forum, he has never been dictatorial. I agree with him that recent posts have been very much troll like slagging off Meat, it's been like a bunch of stupid teenagers egging each other on. I think some bans would be entirely appropriate and are actually long overdue, so in that respect R and the mods have been TOO fair to some people.

[TheDoode]

Originally Posted by robgomm

I think R is fair and just on this forum, he has never been dictatorial. I agree with him that recent posts have been very much troll like slagging off Meat, it's been like a bunch of stupid teenagers egging each other on. I think some bans would be entirely appropriate and are actually long overdue, so in that respect R and the mods have been TOO fair to some people.

I think the question then becomes 'where's the middle ground?' I know that I don't come here to offend and provoke Meat Loaf, but I also know I don't come here to gush over everything he says or does. If I have an interest in part of his performance or technique (or a song, or a record, or a video), I want to talk about that and see what other people think. Sometimes I want to hear from the other side of the opinion so I can adjust my own views to things I might not have been aware of or thought about before. I don't come to this site to cause the owner any offense, and I don't come here to intentionally offend other users.

I can't speak for anyone else, but that's where I'm coming from.

[Paul Richardson]

Originally Posted by R.

It looks like some of you are just around here for the fun of trolling. On one hand you complain, that we're running around in circles and on the other hand you're doing your very best to stir the pot again and again. I'm not yet sure what to do, wether I hand out a few trolling infractions resulting in a ban or simply lock the thread. You'll find out soon enough.

I guess these are fairly unprecedented times.

The artist whom the site is named after, and whom we all love and admire, tells everyone where to go, in response to reactions to his endorsement - which to many was provocative - and to a thread which was respectful enough, but not to his liking.

Perhaps some people are annoyed / upset and would appreciate an apology - as I think one moderator suggested in a recent post.

No one has posted in the abusive style that Meat has, so perhaps people just need to be cut some slack if their posts are somewhat annoyed, upset or even cynical ?

Only my opinion.

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by TheDoode

It's not out of order, Caryl. It's a discussion forum,

And I expressed my thought on this forum where people frequently bang on about freedom of expression, and Rainer was referring to trolling, not discussion.

This thread has veered well away from "the other side of the opinion" so that you or anyone else can adjust their view, and headed into repeating the same opinions, which seem aimed to fan the flames and keep the pot stirred.

[Sarge]

I just put two people on my ignore list. It works very well, whatever they post, I won't be annoyed by it as I just don't see it. Meat Loaf could do the same and put the 97 % forum members he loathes (or whatever the "correct" percentage is - I don't know it since he didn't bother to reveal it) on his ignore list as well - if his main problem with this forum is indeed posts he feels hurt and offended by. Attempts to "find enemies" and control what is being said and who uses this forum might become difficult, though.

[Paul Richardson]

Originally Posted by robgomm

I think R is fair and just on this forum, he has never been dictatorial. I agree with him that recent posts have been very much troll like slagging off Meat, it's been like a bunch of stupid teenagers egging each other on. I think some bans would be entirely appropriate and are actually long overdue, so in that respect R and the mods have been TOO fair to some people.

I've tried to ignore this ... but I just can't ... this is like diving in the penalty box to get footballers sent off ...

[R.]

Fact is, I'm asking all the time. And some people simply don't get the message. Freedom of speech doesn't mean that you can test us or me how long it takes until explosion.

Any more even borderline trolling in this thread and it's GONE. And that might include a ban for the troll as well. This includes:

• Meat went over the top. He apologised on Facebook, a platform with a way bigger reach than this one. It was mentioned and acknowledged in this thread and you can now either accept this apology or not. Either way, if you're waiting for another apology here, then you're shit out of luck imho. Accept that Facebook apology or not, but move on. Any more posts whining about an apology, see above.
• Coming back after years of absence for a snide remark is a prime example of what I'm talking about. Any more of that will result in permanent absence of the absentee.
• Leave the 97% alone. It has been scrutinised thouroughly. Read the thread.
• Anything else that I feel is off topic to this thread, for example the current state of your ignore list or any other remark of that quality. The forum allows to you to edit your post within 60 minutes. Use the edit function. Btw., that was a hint.

Regarding the middle ground mentioned earlier. I'm looking for that for more than ten (10) years. There is none. Common sense? Missing as well.

I'll give you a hint: Read my recent posts, understand them. Try to answer my question (to Adje) for yourself. And then read and understand Paul Crooks's recent posts. This might give you an idea where Meat and Paul are coming from and how to find that infamous middle ground.