117. California Dreamin'

[duke knooby]

i've a quick question... why is this version of the song quite dark and moody?

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by duke knooby

i've a quick question... why is this version of the song quite dark and moody?

Because Meat said when he listened to the words he realised it wasn't a happy poppy song about going to California and lying in the sun, but a song about being scared to follow your dreams, and letting that fear prevent you from going for it. He's said quite a bit about this and John Phillips' depression etc, but that's the gist. Makes sense to me as I always felt the words were sombre and wistful, and there was an underlying sadness to the song that I couldn't quite put my finger on ... but fear of failure is a dark and moody place to be in I think, so the darker, sombre and hauntingly sad tone of Meat's version seems perfect to me

Caryl

[ninja]

Originally Posted by duke knooby

i've a quick question... why is this version of the song quite dark and moody?

because that song is about fear and someone not following his dreams ...

[ninja]

[QUOTE=CarylB;570053]

how funny, caryl,
we wrote our answer exactly at the same time
you're absolutely right!!

[CarylB]

Great minds

[duke knooby]

obviously lyrics and their meanings are open to interpretation which is great, is it the bit where the preacher likes the cold, he knows i'm gonna stay... is that the bit???

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by duke knooby

obviously lyrics and their meanings are open to interpretation which is great, is it the bit where the preacher likes the cold, he knows i'm gonna stay... is that the bit???

I think that's the clincher, and puts all the other darker words into the overall context. So much of the song is about dreaming but not following that dream through, and those few words "he knows I'm gonna stay" are the admission that he knows he won't have the courage to conquer his fear and take that road.

Caryl

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by ninja

hi sarge,
[...]
i meant the whole meaning of the song.

Thank you for clearing that up. But if Meat Loaf was the one who understood the presumably true meaning of the lyrics why did he change them?

[Sarge]

Interesting... I just heard a couple of other versions and apparently the "began to pray" doesn't trace back to Meat Loaf. A couple of other artists did that before, would be interesting to know who sang "began/begin to pray" first.

[ninja]

Originally Posted by duke knooby

obviously lyrics and their meanings are open to interpretation which is great, is it the bit where the preacher likes the cold, he knows i'm gonna stay... is that the bit???

the first thing is "and the sky is gray"

[ninja]

Originally Posted by Sarge

Thank you for clearing that up. But if Meat Loaf was the one who understood the presumably true meaning of the lyrics why did he change them?

you're welcome. but i don't know anything about the pretend / began - change ...

[Sarge]

Since Meat Loaf referred to John Phillips when talking about his take on the song, it kind of confuses me that he used a line I have never heard The Mamas & The Papas sing. Could it be possible that someone else's version influenced his or is there a recording of The Mamas & The Papas / John Phillips singing these lyrics that I don't know of yet? There are artists who have sung both variants of the lyrics.

[glamourgirl]

Originally Posted by Vickip

It's one of my favorite tracks on the CD.
10/10 from me

Same for me and I never even liked the original. This version is brilliant!

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Sarge

Since Meat Loaf referred to John Phillips when talking about his take on the song, it kind of confuses me that he used a line I have never heard The Mamas & The Papas sing. Could it be possible that someone else's version influenced his or is there a recording of The Mamas & The Papas / John Phillips singing these lyrics that I don't know of yet? There are artists who have sung both variants of the lyrics.

It doesn't me .. Meat's bent for depth of research would suggest to me he'd probably listen to many versions before he felt he really had a deep understanding of it and deciding how he would want to take and use a song.

This isn't a man who waits for songs to be delivered to him and records them .. it's someone who uses anything written for him, or that he finds, as a starting point, and who has a continuing desire for exploring music, understanding it, and then putting his own creative stamp on everything he does. He searches, he researches, he waits to find what he knows will be right for an album. I remember him saying how long it took him to find the close for CHSIB .. also a cover, but one which when he found it had exactly the message he wanted to convey to all his fans.

Caryl

[ninja]

[QUOTE=CarylB;570079]
This isn't a man who waits for songs to be delivered to him and records them .. it's someone who uses anything written for him, or that he finds, as a starting point, and who has a continuing desire for exploring music, understanding it, and then putting his own creative stamp on everything he does. He searches, he researches, he waits to find what he knows will be right for an album. I remember him saying how long it took him to find the close for CHSIB .. also a cover, but one which when he found it had exactly the message he wanted to convey to all his fans.

agree absolutelely. good point.

[Sarge]

Caryl, as usual you put a lot of effort in explaining Meat Loaf's intentions and way of working but that doesn't answer my question. And why did he opt for the obvious? That's the first thing you associate a church with: Praying. What's interesting about the guy in the Mamas & Papas version (at least the one I know) is that he does not pray but only pretends to. Why does he do that? "Pretend to pray" works better, in my opinion, especially together with the line "the preacher likes the cold, he knows I'm gonna stay".

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Sarge

Caryl, as usual you put a lot of effort in explaining Meat Loaf's intentions and way of working but that doesn't answer my question. And why did he opt for the obvious?

I understood your question was "it kind of confuses me that he used a line I have never heard The Mamas & The Papas sing. Could it be possible that someone else's version influenced his", and responded to that ie I thought you were asking was it likely that Meat had listened to several versions, perhaps even some you have not heard. It didn't take a lot of effort btw (and there seems oddly to be almost an implied negative in your opening sentence). I find it easy to articulate my thoughts.

As to why Meat opted for what you describe as the obvious, you'd need to ask him.

Caryl

[CarylB]

Originally Posted by Sarge

Caryl, as usual you put a lot of effort in explaining Meat Loaf's intentions and way of working but that doesn't answer my question. And why did he opt for the obvious?

I understood your question was "it kind of confuses me that he used a line I have never heard The Mamas & The Papas sing. Could it be possible that someone else's version influenced his", and responded to that ie I thought you were asking was it likely that Meat had listened to several versions, perhaps even some you have not heard. It didn't take a lot of effort btw (and there seems oddly to be almost an implied negative in your opening sentence. I simply try to ensure what I post conveys my points with clarity and courtesy, which doesn't usually take a lot of effort or time). I find it easy to articulate my thoughts.

As to why Meat opted for what you describe as the obvious, you'd need to ask him.

Caryl

[PanicLord]

8 - a really interesting and far more dramatic take on a terrific song.

[BostonAngel]

ONe of my faves on the album. I have always really liked this song and I love Meat's interpretation of it. All of the sexy sax tones from David Luther on it also help to make it awesome for me. IT actually exceeded my expectations. Because of that I would even say an 11 - it is that good, to me. Would love to see this song performed live.

[robgomm]

Originally Posted by Sarge

Caryl, as usual you put a lot of effort in explaining Meat Loaf's intentions and way of working but that doesn't answer my question. And why did he opt for the obvious? That's the first thing you associate a church with: Praying. What's interesting about the guy in the Mamas & Papas version (at least the one I know) is that he does not pray but only pretends to. Why does he do that? "Pretend to pray" works better, in my opinion, especially together with the line "the preacher likes the cold, he knows I'm gonna stay".

Who cares? Really I mean whose bothered over why he chose to use one word over another? Doesn't change the song significantly does it? Pointless discussion.

[Sarge]

Who made you a mod?

Excuuuuuse that I'm interested in music and bother to pay attention to what Meat Loaf says in interviews. Apparently you missed his statements regarding the meaning of the song and what he thought John Philips was trying to express with it. Why is it wrong to contemplate the lyrics in that context?

If you're not "bothered over" the same things as me, fine, but don't tell me what I'm allowed to say or not to say!

If you can't discuss music on a forum dedicated to a singer and that very singer's work without other members arrogantly dismissing your thoughts as "pointless", this forum is pointless.

Some people are obviously eager to look for a pretext to start a fight whenever possible and think that opinions that aren't in accordance with their own or issues they are not interested in are worthless and shouldn't be posted here. It wouldn't bother me if robgomm's post was an isolated case but it has become a pattern. (Recently someone was even attacked for discussing another artist in - guess where - the off topic section. ) I'm getting the feeling that some people are not really interested in exchanging ideas on their common (???) interest. They seem to be more keen on telling other people that they are "wrong". There are a couple of members who contribute interesting posts which I usually enjoy reading but the wranglers are beginning to void what once attracted me to this place.

Sorry mods, but I'm pissed off by the behavior of some people. This forum used to be a nice place but participating in it has become exhausting.

Back to topic. I assume it's a waste of time because I suspect that robgomm is not really interested in his own question (in that respect he's right - it is a "pointless discussion") and I hate to repeat myself but I'll try to answer it anyway.

Originally Posted by robgomm

Doesn't change the song significantly does it?

It does change the song. It's just one word but it changes the content because the motivation of the character to enter the church might be different. The "preacher/cold/stay" line that follows makes more sense to me in the "pretend to pray" version.

[olblueeyes]

Sarge, I do agree with your thoughts here. Not really appropriate for anyone to comment that a discussion point is pointless. I, for one, don't have a strong opinion on the pretend/began choice but I acknowledge that there are some key differences between the two. Since Meat has made reference to the meaning of the song in his interviews I think it's a valid discussion.

Surely if anyone feels it to be pointless 'tis better to simply not post on the subject. If I were in a pub and someone came over to join a conversation and said what we were talking about was pointless, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be too enamoured at them. Can't we all just behave like we're in a local pub and have a bit of decorum?

Alan

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by olblueeyes

Can't we all just behave like we're in a local pub [...]

Where's the beer?

[robgomm]

I do apologise to all offended. Of course you have the right to discuss this. I just wrongly thought that you was trying to argue with Caryl about it and arguing over one word in a song is daft. However I realise you were just trying to have a discussion so I apologise.