[Julie in the rv mirror]

I'd just like to make a couple more points, and then I will let it be:

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Let me be clear: I am not against immigrants at all, I am against the immigration policies. The EU freedom of movement seems blackmail for allowing free trade. Large corporations can enjoy cheap labor at a cost of favouring Eastern Europeans over Brits in many sectors of employment now (I have seen this with my own eyes if people think I am basing this on the Daily Mail). I am a foreign born Brit so somewhat of an immigrant myself. I just think ultimately it is best to have a very very low net immigration figure, close to zero if possible. This is the best for other countries where people are emigrating from (no-one ever thinks about that it seems) and best for the UK. I do of course understand all the reasons why people want to come to the UK. But I think ghetto forming is very, very bad. Sweden has problems with this now, Bradford in the UK has problems, areas in London and Luton too. Not integration in my opinion and past government policies have really failed these areas and it does not seem to be changing. Ironically it is usually in these areas where people always vote for more socialist / liberal policies - make the government give more free stuff- rather than structural changes that could lead to more employment or opportunity for all.

Andrew, you make a very rational and reasoned argument. Perhaps if the current resident of the White House had been able to do the same, he would have garnered more support. Instead, he preyed on people's fears, saying that Mexicans "are criminals, they're rapists, they're bringing drugs.." and we're going to build a wall to keep them out. Do you see the difference? Can you understand why many consider that racist, or at least xenophobic? The people who are risking their lives to come across the border are for the most part, regular people who just want a better life for themselves and their families. He can build all the walls he wants, and he's not going to stop the drug cartels- they are too firmly established in the U.S. already. Ironically, the biggest Mexican criminal of them all was just brought to New York last night.

Originally Posted by AndrewG

In any case Trump is elected president of the USA, here in the UK we will have a conservative government until at least 2020 and probably well beyond going by what the alternatives are offering (mostly backwards retake the EU referendum ideas etc). People can keep on crying and talking their own countries down because they disagree with past decisions or past votes and elections. Ultimately I think that is a recipe for failure for a country and for the people themselves regardless of who is president, political leader or party and just trying to make the best of things.

Well, I disagree. I think we need to hold our leaders accountable, and take them to task when we don't agree with them. Otherwise, what is the point of having elections? We might as well have a dictator if we're just going to shrug our shoulders and make the best of it.

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Michelle Obama stating "there is now no hope" was totally shameful in my opinion. Disgusting remark.

Many people are feeling that way right now; not good at all for a new administration.