[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

His was a campaign that preyed on people's fears and legitimized hate. Whether his supporters took him seriously or not (and the office of the president is a serious issue), it sends the message that his racist, misogynist, homophobic rhetoric is okay. It isn't.

Keep giving people that disagree with you on issues these labels and see what happens. Everything you say just becomes hot air after a while and the labels become useless.
"I think when it comes to immigration that.."
"RACIST!"
"I'm not sure about the bathroom..."
"HOMOPHOBE!"
Rosie O donnell vs Donald Trump
Rosie:"He annoys me on a multitude of levels," she said. "He’s the moral authority! Left the first wife, had an affair, left the second wife, had an affair, had kids both times but he’s the moral compass for 20-year-olds in America. Donald sit and spin my friend. I don't enjoy him. This is not a self made man"

Trump: "a woman out of control," a "true loser," a "total train wreck," "disgusting," a "slob," "fat, ugly"

"MISOGYNIST!!"

Yeah Trump hits back whether you are a man or a woman. Don't women want to be treated equally? Or you DO want special treatment? Make up your mind.

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

Would Hilary have been a perfect president? No. Things likely would have stayed much the same. But under Trump and some of the individuals who he is considering to put in office, they are likely to get much worse. Economists have predicted that there will be a bad recession, which is not got good news after we're finally crawling out of the hole of the last one. As Caryl said, many people believe that a Trump administration will undo much of the progress that this country has made over the years.

The Clintons and Bushes have been directly and indirectly responsible for deaths of millions of people on this planet and causing a massive immigration wave into Europe. Maybe it's time to try different tactics instead of thinking you can police the world.
Obamacare is unaffordable for many through premium hikes and lack of competition. Maybe it would be good if that gets undone indeed or radically improved. Affordable healthcare when it's unaffordable and cannot be used because of massive deductibles is a joke.

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

I thought your statement was ridiculous if you think that people are that easily swayed just because some celebrity says they should vote for this or that candidate. If they are, perhaps they shouldn't be voting in the first place, frankly. I think most people had their minds made up long ago. And how endorsing one candidate over the other is "limiting people's choices" is beyond me- there were still three names on the ballot. Besides, all that "star power" did Hillary no good in the end- Bruce showing up at the rally was pretty pointless, IMO, especially that late in the game. The only real reason to have a "concert" is to get people to come to the rally and listen to the speeches.

If they cannot be swayed then they should not hold these concerts at all. These moron artists are being used as pawns in the political game. The Democrat campaign spent $1.5 Billion, Trump's camp only $500 million. That's smart, doing more and achieving more with less.

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

It was never about "poor" Alicia Machado, it was about proving how easily Trump's buttons could be pushed, and his behavior when that happens. The way he went off on social media (Lord help us) over something so unimportant is hardly appropriate for a world leader- talk about childish. If you don't understand why it's a problem, then I just don't know what to say. His own campaign had to take away his Twitter account before the election; if he can't be trusted to handle a social media account, how can we trust him to handle foreign relations?

Yet you completely overlook the fact that Hillary brought this issue up in the presidential debate. It thus seems you approve of this character assassination tactic. Where did Trump bring up anything other than political choices and actions about Hillary during these debates? He didn't, he stayed on topic focusing on politics whilst Hillary went on a wild goose chase bringing up irrelevant nonsense from the 90s. The only time he deviated was the Bill Clinton rape accusations and pedophile Hillary as a lawyer case where she got the pedophile's sentence down and she later laughed at the fact she would never believe a polygraph again, thus indicating she knew he was completely guilty. Again these were actions (some alleged), but more than just Trump's words which seems all Hillary was going after. That and taxes. Weak I think as she is just describing countless individuals in America who are not necessarily breaking any laws.

A brief clip perhaps indicating that BBC News perhaps is accepting the Trump presidency yesterday showed the following arguments between Trump and Obama:
Obama: "This guy? Come on man. He ain't gonna be president."
Trump: "ISIS has been created as a direct result of the bad foreign decisions by president Obama and Secretary Clinton which had left a vacuum in Iraq and surrounding regions."

During that clip it was actually Trump who was the one who sounded presidential. Why Obama sometimes still uses street talk after almost 8 years of being a president I really don't understand.

So Trump has a bit of fun with Twitter. Look at the tweets now demanding his assassination. Social media leads to bad things quite often and it's the only time when a new president HAD to be elected that both candidates have been using it so much. It's not only Trump who has written bad things on Twitter and I'm sure he will be more presidential from January 20th onwards.

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

Yes, really. What makes you think that any woman would want his filthy hands on them just because he's rich and powerful? That's akin to saying that a woman was asking to be raped because she was wearing a short skirt.

On that much discussed tape I'm pretty sure Trump was referring to what women LET you do in the celeb world. If many women are happy to get video taped during sex or prostitute themselves, yes I believe there are many who will let billionaires touch them anywhere. People can find it vile or disgusting and un-presidential but it is simply fact. Trying to remove our re-productive instincts completely from life is a fight you'll never win. Sure there is a time and place for that and not in the oval office but that tape was a private conversation regardless.

On the groping:
If a woman gets raped they should go to the police, file charges or start a lawsuit like several women did against alleged rapist and known adulterer Bill Clinton who was almost headed back into the white house. Women shouldn't wait until their rapist or groper perhaps, maybe, ever runs for presidency before coming forward. Total BS. I have already pointed out at least 4 of the grope accusers have been debunked. Yet you don't care about law and order, as if an accusation somehow sits above that. I'm all for equal rights, equal pay for women etc but you cannot have the situation where as soon as a woman shouts rape everyone should lose their jobs. The American electorate took law and order above sympathy at the ballot box. Trump had the backing of almost all police forces, army generals and border patrol etc. This is telling. Moving into a direction of feels only is something I don't think the USA will ever do fully even though it has happened quite a bit over here in Europe and is leading to problems as they influence political choices.

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

I don't need to read anything to know that the Trump campaign was just as dirty, if not more so. If you think it was any different, you're kidding yourself.

No you are ignorant if you don't even consider the collusion and criminality of what was exposed through Wikileaks and beyond. The emails go back to 2008 and criminal / suspicious behaviour has been going on for years including Tim Kaine already being picked as Hillary's VP back in June 2015! Trump only announced his presidential run 18 months ago. Indeed there could be bad tactics from the Trump campaign during this time. Show me the evidence however beyond reaction to action and beyond online campaigning (which Obama's camp did well and Hillary's camp didn't). Just assuming criminal behaviour is ridiculous. I can only make a judgement on evidence that is available.

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

I shudder to think what kind of state this country might be in in four years.

You might be involved in less foreign wars over a period of 4 to 8 years. There will probably be a limitation of illegal immigrants and there might be more people in the labour force.
Obamas unemployment figures are skewed and includes part time jobs. There have never been this many people outside of the labour force (95 million) in the USA.

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

Yep, he was very devious in his business dealings. When he ran out of money building one of his hotels, he simply didn't pay his vendors, forcing many of them into bankruptcy. In the next couple of weeks, he's due in court to face fraud and racketeering charges over his "University", which if he's convicted, could keep him from ever taking office.

Many people have tried such learn through listening to an expert business models. If criminality is proven in court then fair enough but my guess is this case will be settled and everyone involved will be happy. This case is very different than putting the country at risk with storing classified government emails on a private server when you are secretary of state in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

Absolutely. I think that some of those people might soon be regretting that decision.

It was this kind of elitist thinking that made people go to Trump. "We know what's best for you, you're gonna regret it if you don't vote our way." Michael Moore's estimation of what the British people think after Brexit is nonsense too. Almost everyone would vote the same way if the referendum were held again as polls have shown.

Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror

Actually, it makes me happy to see the millenials speaking out. I think many of them didn't take it seriously enough, and now this is the result. Since we're so fond of maps and graphics here, I saw one that indicated that if only millenials had voted, it would have been overwhelmingly blue.

This is why the voting age should be raised to 21, 25 or even 30. Why is everyone voting only one way considered good? Because it aligns with how you vote? People need to step out of their own bubble more and consider both sides of the argument.

Yesterday's broadcast of a political debate show here in the UK was shocking. The only thing a woman from the Labour party could say was pretty much what social justice warriors always say. Telling you how to behave and what you should think and not talking policies that can improve people's lives. This is a total waste of time in politics at the moment. I used to be a member of the labour party and always voting for them. How they are behaving now is appealing to many youngsters but it will not win them elections.

I would argue many youngsters are completely uninformed these days. Over here, people were whining about 16 and 17 year olds not getting the brexit vote. The outcome wouldn't have been different regardless.
People who think they are clever because they have a degree, are at university or doing well at high school do not necessarily have common sense to behave in a rational manner. There is nothing wrong with a peaceful protest. But burning flags, smashing cars, looting are hardly the actions from people who peacefully vote and really believed in "Love Trumps Hate".

There were even riot "Ads" found on Craigslist and there is evidence some were bussed into the cities. There is evidence that George Soros has bankrolled Black Lives Matter in the past. Another beauty. Protesting in the name of criminals quite often. The FBI ought to investigate Soros. This rioting will only make inner cities worse. Indeed I find millennials who do this quite stupid because they are themselves then to blame for the lack of opportunities if businesses leave their cities because the owners don't feel safe because of these actions.

No-one cared enough about the failings of foreign wars and weapon supplies (including Libya which can mostly be attributed to Hillary Clinton) or the Islamic terrorist attacks to take to the street. No instead it's about someone's character, or someone's words they don't agree with. And many of that has been indoctrinated, taken out of context via the main stream media. Millennials happy to protest because of that? Marxism, propaganda and inciting violence at its worst.

Anyway those are my final thoughts. I'm sure there will be further attempts at rebuttals.