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Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror
Here's why there's a problem:
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I actually thought that was quite a decent argument.
The government being the best of its people would be a great thing to achieve. I doubt however that has been achieved in the past (George W. Bush's terrible lies to convince people to invade Iraq for example).
And the only thing I'd say in response to Penn is that society should be careful with letting political correctness stand in the way of discussing important issues.
A much more focused and decent argument on immigration than Donald Trump, Nigel Farage or myself could ever give for anyone who is interested in watching:
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Originally Posted by CarylB
As you're posting here I have to wonder if you include us in the people you refer to. I always DO investigate, never accept a click bait headline, but search for evidence that he has made this or that outlandish statement .. the bizarre Tweets, video footage of him making the statement .. and find more than enough to support my view of this man, including watching the recent debate live. I've yet to find a cogent and tenable policy expressed to achieve the outcomes he promises, I have seen and heard him ridicule those who have challenged him, encourage bullying at his rallies, make outlandish threats, and flatly deny he has said things I have heard him say a matter of weeks or even days before. I'm not facile, nor jumping on any "hate bandwagon" .. I have followed his campaign, researching as I go, with ever-increasing concern.
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I've read all the responses and thank everyone for their time in debating. I disagree with AnotherDay for saying about the matter "End of Story" and glad it wasn't end of story. No one's opinion is the final solution, in my opinion it is THAT what is bigotry.
If you have made up your mind and investigated of course that is fine. I never said the sun shines out of Trump's ass.
I just think what is going on is similar to the ganging up mentality that two people had to endure:
- Meat Loaf with the Australian Press. Because he gave a bad performance in 2011 now anything he does in their eyes is crap and they still try to refer back to his performance as if he committed a crime.
- The Twitter ganging up on Justine Sacco which ruined her life.
There is an interesting Ted talk about the Justine Sacco case if you are interested in watching:
Now of course Donald Trump has put himself into the limelight and probably knew what he was going in for but I still think the outrage at what he is saying seems to be worse than the things he has said himself. People digging up dirt on his family etc. I'm not saying anyone here has done that, I am merely pointing out the ganging up is very easy to be part of and not notice it. I am sure I have been part of such things in the past myself.
There's just Both Sides to a story quite often.
The Alicia Machado case is one of the best recent examples where people accuse Trump of fat shaming but you will find she has done the same and actually worse much more punishable things.
This doesn't mean I think people should gang up on Alicia Machado or Hillary Clinton, I just think the ganging up on Trump is exaggerated when there are more important matters to think off.
I was shocked when I saw this footage of a guy wearing an "MAGA" hat in a Black Lives Matter rally. It comes across that parts of the Black Lives Matters club is far more dangerous than anything they are protesting about.
Sure you can say he should have known that wearing a MAGA hat in THAT crowd was stupid but did he really deserve what he got for it?? I don't think so.
The ganging up of people can often lead to worse things (I admit Trump is perhaps causing the same on the other side). But so far the actual physical violence doesn't seem to be coming from his supporters I believe (there were a few assholes at rallies I admit, but not entire crowds such as in the MAGA hat case where someone could have died!). This does not mean that in the future this cannot turn or have negative effects on minorities. I just think people need to think for themselves more rather than just believe what they read in print/online.
In that light it is Meat Loaf's dignified response that really stood out to me rather than the name calling which almost all celebrities are doing. Look at UK TV shows where they have celebrities. Just yesterday I caught a bit of Graham Norton (hardly ever watch it to be honest) and the American celebrities again seemed the Trump thing is a joke, a turn off, something they rather not think about. So Hillary wins by default for them. Hardly any negatives are mentioned about her on the UK to the point there isn't even any debate about which policies she stands for. I think this is a huge disadvantage to her actually. I really am not so sure about if she is so easily deserving of the presidency without any debate. But again I would respect the outcome if she does win it. However the amnesia card definitely seems to be played by Barack Obama (why a sitting president can so easily devote so much time to hand over the reigns I don't understand??). Listen to some of the stuff he was saying about Hillary Clinton:
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Originally Posted by Julie in the rv mirror
I'm convinced there's only one logical explanation for his candidacy: 
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Another great video and very funny. I love The Producers film (the original).
The only thing that always worries me is that it appears to be politically correct to call white people racists so easily. I'm not so sure they could make that same joke about another race of people.
White people are btw not the majority around the world.
Finally let's end on a funny thing: