[The Flying Mouse]

Originally Posted by Sarge

Do you know how many students of art history have to learn something about paintings and artists by more or less good photos / reproductions? They don't have direct access to every painting that is featured in their studies. You are obviously underestimating people's ability to gain experience in evaluating, interpreting and judging things.

Usually the photos in books are of decent quality, and are taken with an instrument (and other equipment) specifically designed to give the best results. Not many books on art are illustrated by photos taken on a Nokia (hang on, did the Nokia have a camera? Never mind).

Originally Posted by Sarge

No, but you're applying double standards and have introduced one of the most contradictory, illogical and discriminatory rule this place has ever seen.

Again, i'm more than happy to go back on what I said and back the banning of positive comments as well as negative ones?
So there are no double standards.
Does that make us all happy again?

Originally Posted by Sarge

No one has "condemned" Meat. A single member of this forum stated his opinion on a performance he had seen in a video. It just differed from that of other users, he did not judge Meat Loaf's entire work by it or something like that. Considering that the majority of the members who participated in the Austin thread LIKE the videos / Meat's performance, I don't understand why the hell you consider these videos or discussions about them such a threat.

It's happened before and (give me a moment to double check my crystal ball, yep, it's tour time) it'll happen again.
This was my attempt to nip it in the bud before things got cooking again (where do good intentions lead again? )
It's been mentioned many times before that Meat concentrates on the minority negative comments he receives rather than the majority of positive, and I agree with that, but it doesn't stop the fact that I think that all these comments are poorly founded and that the negative ones are unfair.

Originally Posted by Sarge

You take the liberty to criticize Meat Loaf yourself but try to bar others from saying something "negative" because you are allegedly that concerned about his feelings. That is weird.

It's my sense of fair play.
Nothing more nothing less.
Meat decides what songs to use on an album and picks the style and feel. He picks the band, he is involved in the arrangement, he is the vocal.

If it is good or if it is bad is down to the bloke with his name on the cover.

He picks the set list for his shows and tells the band what he wants to do. He decides what special effects he wants to use. He decides what works and what doesn't.

Praise him for what he got right, and criticise what he got wrong.

If the show is great or the show sucks is down to the bloke with his name on the ticket.

Praise him for what he got right and criticise him for what he got wrong.




A camera phone tends to be a cheap piece of crap that is not custom made for recording live music in large venues.
How Meat sounds on it is not down to Meat.


It's not so much his feelings being hurt, it's his feelings being hurt by something he cannot be held accountable for.

Originally Posted by Paul Richardson

... or for arguments sake what if the band and Patty were excellent, but Meat was poor ? Despite the often variable quality of the clip, hardly anyone ever says the band or Patty were poor ... because they hardly ever are ... just saying ...

You might have a point with this, but I still say take everything on youtube with a pinch of salt.

Originally Posted by Adje

Anyway, although, I'm certain the intentions behind the original post are good, this post puts 'honest opinion' on this board in perspective.

Either you suport honest opinion or you're against it. But don't ask people to go one way. That eliminates the value on any post

I am FOR honest opinion.
But I am for informed honest opinion.

There's a world of difference.

Originally Posted by AndrewG

"Some consideration and respect" is a totally subjective thing. If someone thinks Meat's voice isn't great it seems to me some people take that as disrespect and posting without consideration and straight away such people are branded as being wrong or listening with the wrong ears.

My only issue I have Andrew, is posts commenting on the strength of Meat's voice when the clip doesn't give an accurate indication.

If it's recorded by proper equipment and it sucks, so be it, but on a camera phone, who the hell can tell what it sounds like it the room?

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Tonight I saw a bit of Rihanna's tv performance at Hackney.

Better you than me

Originally Posted by AndrewG

A few weeks ago I saw Paul McCartney at the Jubilee thing. I thought his vocals and performance were truly awful. So naturally a lot of Paul McCartney fans would hate my opinion. Simpels.

The BBC (although shit at times) didn't record his performance on a mobile phone, so you got a more honest representation of what he was like.

Originally Posted by AndrewG

I think it is actually the taking opinions too personal that is the problem here, always has been.

It's not surprising that Meat takes it personal (because it's all about him ) but last time we went through this he set the red pony of the apocolypse free in youtube land and it went it's merry way deleting rare songs, rare live performances, interviews, anything it could find with the name Meat Loaf on it.
Was it really worth having all that stuff lost to posterity because some folks wanted to say Meat doesn't sound so good recorded on a mobile?

I say no.
A million times no.

Originally Posted by AndrewG

The pattern of dislikes on theses posts above is just ridiculous and I feel it highlights my post perfectly.

You must admit it makes a pretty pattern

I find it interesting when somebody "likes" two posts that are completly conflicting.
Interesting, but off the topic

Originally Posted by AndrewG

I feel that I cannot post an honest opinion on the Meat Loaf forum at all without upsetting some people.

I don't feel that way myself.
I feel I can disagree with someone on this thread then go serve them a pint in a virtual pub not too far from here.
It's not personal. I'm not disagreeing with everything a person thinks (or disliking them because of it) i'm just disagreeing with how they feel about this issue.

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Some say post with respect? What do they mean exactly? Constantly sucking up to Meat or something else? Can someone please explain?

I don't believe you need to suck up to Meat or like everything he does.
Putting your dislikes into repectful language isn't very hard to do. And if you are doing that, in some degree at least, because you consider how Meat feels when he reads it, I don't believe it automatically makes you a kiss ass (or a suck up, or a brown nose, etc etc) I think it just might mean that you have a little compassion in your soul for a guy who (although hasn't always hit the target cenrer dead bang) has worked hard to give you a lot of pleasure over the years.

Originally Posted by AndrewG

As Sarge said if I like a YouTube vid it is ok to say that Meat Loaf is awesome?
If I dislike a YouTube vid it is only the quality of the video I can dislike?

Like i've said a couple of times since I started this batch of replies, let's ban positive comments so we can all be happy then.

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Actually I think the mods have done a poor job here. In my opinion it would have been better to have left the original negative comment in the Austin thread and perhaps clamping down on all the YouTube quality stuff which I do think is unrelated to Austin generally, instead of resorting to censorship and opening a can of worms between the positive vs negative YouTube opinion camps again.

Same shit, just a different day.

My bad <-------- waves hand in the air.
What can I say, I know what's a commin' (it comes every tour) and I tried to deflect it before it hit.
Remind me where good intentions get you again?