Re-Recording Of Dead Ringer
 

Wouldn't that be awesome? Don't get me wrong. The album is awesome, but everyone knows his voice was strained. If he re-recorded the album now, it would sound a lot better, agree? I'm not sure how all of that would work, but his current voice is perfect and I'd LOVEEE a verison with it.

I think his voice is right for the most songs of DR.
But look at the version of DRFL with the MSO from 04, thats very good.
But i think a new DR version whouldn´t work, because i dont think that many people whould buy it.
Maybe he could do a live cd...
R.

Oh, I dunno. Quite a lot of people would not have heard of Dead Ringer (eg, the crowd that got into Bat II) and Bat III *should* (going on past performace of Bats) get a new crowd who may not have heard of Meat, thsu it is possible they would buy a new recording of DR, depending upon the impact Bat III makes.

Another argument in favour of producing some sort of 30th anniversary packaged product (ooooh, I know I would buy the "every-album-from-the-career-of-Meat-Loaf" set in the pretty box). :B

a live cd would be good

I think there will be in every case a 30th-anniversary-whatever
Maybe a big good-bye tour.
I personally thought, that Bat3 whould be released next year. Because that whould be the best PR ever.
"Now, 30 years after one of the greates albums in musical history,..."

Yeah, me too.

Still, a lot can happen between now and October (not that I want the album delayed, October is a long enough wait), and I guess part of it depends on the angle that the PR and promo guys, plus the label, decide to take about the marketing.

I think the album will probably be delayed anyway- most big projects are i.e movie productions and album released. It would be excellent PR on the 30th anniversary of Bat to release Bat III.

The only way I can see Dead Ringer getting re-recorded is if Meat Loaf did an unplugged Storytellers type thing, maybe with a stringed quartet or something. He could do Bat1 and Bat2 whilst he's at it or on a seperate night and release the DVD's seperately. Other than that I can't ever see it getting re-recorded for anything.

Pud :twisted:

After Bat III, if he was going to put the time and effort into rerecording an album, well I'd actually rather he just made a new album.

I don't think Dead Ringer is that bad.... not as well produced as some of the albums though.

I think you´re right.

Yeah, it's awesome, but it vexes me. His voice was so different.. and I keep asking myself if I would like the songs had they been recorded in his "now" voice. For some reason, they just seem to fit with that voice though.

I love Dead Ringer...it's one of my favorite albums...

For some reason I just thought of all those Hollywood movie remakes...not one of them was better than the original..

Friday morning spring clean time ... shuffling this over to TT&BH

Did You hear the MSO version of that song with Patti? That´s just awesome! Like i did already say somewhere, the best thing whould be a new DR-Live album on CD/DVD

Maybe they could get the movie from somewhere (if it still exists) for this...

Wasn't there a story about Meat Loaf and Pearl re-recording "Dead Ringer" in an acoustic version? I seem to remember reading that from somewhere...

I'm sure Meat has said the reason he doesn't sing those songs is because it was a difficult period in his life and he doesn't wish to be reminded. Well, with the exception of "Dead Ringer" that album is a lost treasure. I love how the 'tyre tracks' line from Peel Out was recycled in Whistle Down The Wind

As a Brit I'm always a bit bemused when anyone refers to Dead Ringer as a lost treasure. The album entered the UK charts at #1 on its first week of release and Meat also scored a top five single. The following tour also saw him make his first big arena appearances in the UK at Birmingham NEC and Wembley. (He's happily been filling out arenas all over the UK ever since ... even when he hasn't had an album to promote, which is virtually unheard of!)

Admittedly Dead Ringer didn't sell anywhere near as many copies as BOOH or enjoy the incredible chart run of that album, but then how does anyone follow up something of that magnitude?!!!

I love the Dead Ringer album so of course I believe it was worthy of more recognition globally but 8 million copies worldwide is certainly not to be sniffed at!

Diane

Hooray! Exactly Diane, I 100% agree. I would love to see more songs from Dead Ringer live - especially REAW and IGLHFBOU. That would ROCK!

I wouldn't mind seeing REAW and IGLHFBOU "live", either Trex. I like both of them, as well. :))

J.

.... and let's not forget IKYIYDCB and MTYD. :cool:

Diane

I could never forget them... :) The rest I am not massively fussed on (apart from DR itself, of course!)

Me too. The album sold around 5-8 million copies, there's nothing 'lost' about that. It's a shame that there wasn't any other single hits from it though besides DRFL.

Pud :twisted:

The album did succeed in Britain. It was also the second album of Meat Loaf after BAT OUT OF HELL...

It's surprising that it didn't succeed on the level of BAT because it has the principle ingredients of a BAT album: Meat's the singer, Jim Steinman's the writer and it's got fantasy art on the cover.

Which leads to my conclusion, perhaps it was never Meat Loaf or Jim Steinman who was successful... but the BAT name itself?

Interesting theory

If it was the name that was successful, wouldn't there be motorcycles, paper clips and paper flower pot holders by now?

Technically, if DR had all the ingredients of a Bat, then it should have sold like a Bat. It didn't. Which kind of screws up the theory that only a Bat by Meat AND Jim will be any good.

That makes no sense as it doesn't screw up any theory about a Bat album. Ryan's saying it should have done better but it didn't because it didn't have a Bat title, but it had all the ingredients, that's his theory. Not that only a Bat album by Meat AND Jim will be any good, that wasn't even mentioned...technically ;)

Pud :twisted:

In which case, your nonsense is forgiven.

You have to think of this one, too:
That was the album after Bat. If the second album would be called Bat2, then Bat wouldnt be something special anymore.

I think that is a bit harsh and mean. You are of course entitled to your opinion and I respect that but Dead Ringer is an amazing album and I happen to love his vocals on it personally.!

Its not mean it is the truth, I love the vocals on it aswel but its no secret he was having trouble with his voice then. Although I could be wrong and i'm pretty sure its in his book aswel.

Dead Ringer was an enormous success in the U.K. So was MATLAF. But it was, pretty much, an ignominious failure everywhere else.

Since America rules the waves these days I classify this as a "lost treasure"

Since it reached No.#45 in the US charts, it's hardly 'lost', it just didn't do very well.

Pud :twisted:

Well yes, but no one ever talks about it these days, except for Meat & Jim fans... unless they're Manilow "enthusiasts" looking for the original take on "Read 'em" ech.

And it's a shame, a real shame

I'd consider the album "found" if there was a nice remaster. I also consider "Bad for Good" a lost treasure, but one which Steinman and Meat continually raid

No one talks about Purple Rain by Prince and that was a mega hit, so was the Bodyguard soundtrack and when was the last time you heard someone talk about them? Everything I do by Bryan Adams was at No.1 in the UK for a zillion weeks and no one talks about that anymore. Mr Blobby knocked Meat Loaf off the top of the charts to become a Christmas No.1 but no one talks about that anymore.

The fact is Dead Ringer isn't lost, it never was lost and never will be lost. You can find it almost every record store there is, there on the shelf next to Bat Out Of Hell. It's available in most countries that don't percieve rock music as the spawn of Satan.

It sold in excess of 5 million copies and therefor in no definition of the word is Dead Ringer 'lost'.

Pud :twisted:

Exactly Pud.

I think people assume that beacause Dead Ringer wasn't the mega hit that Bat or Bat II was, it flopped. It didn't, how many artists or bands would give their drummer to the devil for a record that sells in excess of 5 million copies? 5 million is a fantastic sales figure, it was in the 1980's and it is today. Bat and Bat II exceeded that fantastic benchmark, that's all it is ...

You´re absolutely right!
Isn´t it always so, that the second album isn´t sold as much as the first?
Many, many artist cant take that step and dissapear to nowhere.
The only problem is the relation. Sure you can sey that it has sold 5 million copies, and that are many, true. But on the other hand that´s just 1/6 of the copies Bat sold, so, some people may classify it as a flop.

If Bat never happened and the first album was Dead Ringer, with a sales figure of 5Million plus, it would have been classed as a smash hit and not 'lost'. But because it was released in the shadow of Bat, it isn't.

Pud :twisted:

You´re absolutely right Pud!
Maybe be would be waiting now for Dead Ringer III: The Ringer is loose

I have never met a person who hasn't heard of this album.

I have never met a person who hasn't heard of this album.

I have never met a person who hasn't heard of this song.

Except every musical encyclopaedia and technical enthusiast in the world.

I have never met a person who HAS heard of "Dead Ringer". People know Bat Out Of Hell, people know Bat Out Of Hell II, Welcome to the Neighborhood & CHSIB (because of its recent release) but usually they have never heard of this unless they've started an interest in Meat Loaf.

I have not seen in a record shop for four years, and Meat Loaf and Jim Steinman had their first major success in Australia.

The last time I saw it: was a tacky old version in the bargain bin going for $4.45. Typically, I purchased it...

And so is "Bat Out Of Hell". But no one ever talks about "Dead Ringer", at least all the people I've "met".

Then how come it's never talked about? That was a rhetorical question

Remember the Steinman quote (if you've ever heard of him) "you must only worship yourself"

Please tell me how you understand the word "talk about".
Sure, except latest albums nearly nothing is talked about in general. But I think the way it is meant here, is that if you ask some people, they have heard of the album. And the answers you will get are depending on the area where you´re living and the kind of person you will talk to.
If I am talking to people who know something about music, most of them have heard of dead ringer or at least know who made it.


btw,
Stienman, Stienman...:confused:
ain´t that the guy who directed Jurassic Park ?:twisted:

:twisted:

*siren noise*
WARNING!!!!


WARNING!!!!

THIS IS A
SCEPTICAL MOUSE
ALERT


I REPEAT


THIS IS A
UNBELIEVABLY FECKING
SCEPTICAL MOUSE
ALERT!!!!!!

You REALLY tryina tell me that NOBODY you have met has EVER heard of the Dead Ringer album? :shock:
NOBODY at all has heard of this album that sold over 5 millie copies, got to No 1 in the UK charts, the title single getting to No 5, not to mention the classic vid with Cher? :faint:

I believe the album was released before Ryan was born, so it wouldn't surprise me if his small group of friends hadn't heard of it before. But saying that, if Ryan talks about that album the same way he does about Batman, I'm surprised no one he's ever met doesn't know of its existance.

Either way, under no circumstance can the album be classed as 'lost'. As I've previously pointed out, it's available at all good record stores. Pandora's Box - Original Sin however isn't, so that might fall into the 'lost' category.

Pud :twisted:

Exactly, it succeeded in the U.K. It didn't do anything in the States or anywhere else, from my knowledge, just the U.K.

Even Meat's greatest flops have been hits there

Yep

I've even had people tell me they thought that song was from BAT

The album is four years older than me

Not all my friends are the same age as me though

Ah, see, but I'm obsessed with Batman. Of course everyone's gonna know about that

Maybe it's just a misleading label like the "cover" one I was talking about earlier

Then how come I've never seen it?

Exactly. I have never seen that anywhere IN MY LIFE. When I went to import it, I was told that it didn't exist, that I was making it up

I think the Australian and New Zealand music market are very similar and in New Zealand, I could go into almost any music store and pick up a copy of Dead Ringer. I would say you could do the same in Australia, unless Aussies want to admit that they're more backward than the Kiwi's that is, then perhaps you might have a point.

Pud :twisted:

Dead Ringer did not make it in the Netherlands i believe. But i buyed it here in the Netherlands. It wasn't easy to find here but i'v got it! Dead Ringer has some very good songs in my opinion.

To be honest, I dont give a damn if it´s available here in a music store or not.
Hello, guys!
We´re living in age of digital communication and (nearly) everything is available on amazon or ebay or wherever.
In our town we don´t even got a real music store, just some cd corners in the malls.
So IMO, even if you dont wanna hear that, the time of going to a store and ask for an album has gone.:-(

All that I want to say with this post is that you cant assess the importance of an album by searching for it in a music store.

Yes we are living in an age of digital communication but not everyone chooses to choose their music that way. I'd rather spend an hour or two at a music store listening to all sorts of CD's I haven't heard before, than sat at home holed up like some greasy hermit tapping away at a keyboard.

I appreciate that a lot of people now download songs through iTunes or whatnot, where they don't need to step out into the sunlight, but there's still a lot of people who like the old fashioned way of flipping through the CD's at a store.

Pud :twisted:

Judging on the variance between our versions of "Bad For Good" (i.e. tracklist, cover art) I'd say the Aussie / New Zealand market is different in regards to Jim. And I always thought we were ahead of you

R.L.

What makes you think I got my Bad For Good album in New Zealand? Not only am I quite a few years older than you but I'm not even a New Zealander.

Pud :twisted:

Back to Dead Ringer, has anyone else noticed that Amazon & Play.com have Dead Ringer now with an issue date of December 2005. Does anyone happen to know if it is exactly the same as the original CD release or has it been remastered in any way? If it's just a bit louder I'd be happy to buy it again (original seems to have a lower volume than Bat & Bat 2).

how can people say the dead ringer album was sub par and his voice was strained

I take it none of you have ever seen the dead ringer tours? boy did you miss some amazing shows im going to love her for both of us, is one hell of a song sung live

put it into perspective this album was made in 81, production techniques have improved greatly since then, also music was different back then

I would LOVE to hear that sung live again - it is my favourite Meat Loaf song. No re-recording is necessary, just some live versions please!

Quite easy, as people are expressing an opinion

Bat Out Of Hell was made in 76/77 and that's a timeless classic with a greater production quality. I fail to see the 81 reference as a convincing argument.

Pud :twisted:

[QUOTE=Pudding]Quite easy, as people are expressing an opinion[QUOTE=Pudding]

Agree here



Even though Bat was made a few years earlier, and production was slightly better on Bat, than Dead Ringer, improvements could be made, to Dead Ringer, with todays technology. I think the differnce between Bat and Dead Ringer, would have come down to cost, and how much money was made available, for the production of Dead Ringer. I don't realy know if more or less money was made available to Dead Ringer, but I say you could put it down to this. :D

all im saying is put things into perspective, there is nothing wrong with dead ringer and as far as follow up albums go it isnt to bad with some great timeless songs on it. do you really thin he could sing the songs better today???
Bat is bat there will never be another bat, you cant duplicate it now or ever so to compare anything Meat has done since is trivial because nothing will ever compare to it

Pink floyd had a very succesful album around the same time called the Wall, what was the follow up?? The final cut

I rest my case.

I didn't realise there was a case to rest :tard: you must be very proud of yourself :retard:

Pud :twisted:

thank you i am

dead ringer
 

dead ringer far far betterthan bat , my first meat loaf album, and still listen to it like its a new album.... mtyd is meat best song in my book..

That´s true, really one of the best.
It´s the intro, which starts like a normal pop song, but then the high piano starts, and that´s the point where you can see that jim is not a good songwriter, he´s a genius.
That song alone would be worth a re-recording of the album.

With so many (new) songs out there (Steinman or not) I fail to see any reason why to re-record any Meat Loaf album. Sure maybe make an acoustic album or a live one or so, but just to re-record "Dead Ringer" would be daft IMO and I doubt it would sell well.

I agree. Meat could do one off's or two off's shows like BooH w/ MSO, but just have it mainly Bat2 orientated or Dead Ringer orientated etc, flog the CD's, flog the DVD's and make a nice tidy sum with not doing much work. But the re-recording of an whole album to me is ridiculous, unless it's just acoustic or symphonic.

Pud :twisted:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the production on Dead Ringer. It's the MASTERING of the album that is poor. Listen to the Vinyl version - it sounds infinitely better than the CD version, with sounds 'dull' and lifeless. It seems to me that the process of mastering it to CD was rushed and/or messed up, and that affects sound quality. Also, try listening to the DR tracks on the Hits Out Of Hell CD - they sound much 'brighter' and, IMO, better than they do on the DR CD. It is how well an album is mastered that makes it sound good/bad. The mastering process adds the finished 'gloss' that you get on albums/singles etc. That's why TMIL will almost certainly sound better when it's been professionally mastered.

And to clear up an issue of some debate - people say that Steinman had nothing to do with the production of DR - he, along with Jimmy Iovine, produced the backing tracks (ie the music) and Meat Loaf and Stefan Galfas ONLY PRODUCED THE VOCALS. So the music (apart from 'Read 'Em and Weep' and 'Dead Ringer For Love') WAS produced by Steinman and co, EXACTLY THE SAME as Bad For Good. Meat and Stef just added the vocals at a later date, and because Meat's voice was effecively ruined at the time, he had to sing it almost one line at a time, and then edit it all together. This is most noticeable on 'Peel Out'.

Rant over, carry about your business!

:)

Dead Ringer contains some of my favourite Meat tracks ... I'll Kill You If You Don't Come Back, More Than You Deserve, I'm Gonna Love Her For Both Of Us & Read 'em & Weep. I don't see any need to re-record this album at all. What I would really love is to hear Meat sing some of the above live! :cool:

I absolutely agree with Son Of Meat Loaf that the vinyl version sounds very much better than the CD so a remastered CD would be nice.

Diane

I absolutely adore this album to peices and like Diane I love those songs also and it's title track, I have however not heard the Vinal so can't judge but I think we should stop bashing it, Meat Loaf's vocals were supurb on this album !!
But then this is a personal opinion and we are all bound to think differently but sometimes things are best unsaid !

I'm not bashing it at all, I love his vocals, but I'm very curious about how an updated version would sound. However, you may be right, being so attached to the original may never allow me to enjoy a new recording. Plus, it's a little redudant. Remastering would be great though, not just on DR, but also on Bad Attitude, which desperately needs it.

Just compare MTYD on DR and live on ST, then tell me which you think is better...:))

haha, Storytellers, without a doubt.

Sorry to be so naiive, and possibly also for going just the tiniest bit off topic, but what actually happens during mastering? I thought it was just copying the music to the CD or whatever, but it sounds like more than that can happen - eg enhancing the sound quality or production values. Is anyone brave enough to explain before a mod catches us?? :lol: :sneaky:

Mods? Where? :bleh:

OK looks like the coast is clear!

I only have a simple understanding of the mastering process so what follows is an idiots guide in a nutshell (it's obviously much more technical and complex than this!):

The mastering engineer is given a tape or CD with all the recorded tracks on. He then sets about equalising them and makes sure all the peaks are balanced so there is no distortion. This is an extremely important stage as a poor master can suck all the life out of a recording.

Perhaps someone with a better understanding would like to add to this.

Diane

There's a bit more to mastering than that. During mastering tracks will be isolated to make sure effects such as reverb are spot on and that there are no interfering sounds. More importantly the whole balance of the sound is extremely important (how much piano, how much drums etc. etc). You will often see an artist use the same mastering guy several times as it is key to their sound (such as bob ludwig/ bob clearmountain for Bruce Springsteen). Sometimes the sound engineer will do the mastering himself with directions of the producer but other times mastering will be done during a completely separate session at the same or other studio by a specialist mastering person.
Your def right about the peaks stuff, but with graphical user interfaces these days that is probably one of the easiest things to get right IMO (ie you can see when tracks start to cut/distort). Equalisation is probably the final stage of the mastering that they get right and often they will play the tracks back using several speaker systems and even a dead simple cd/tape player to make sure the listener will get a quality product.

On a side note, you've probably heard of remastering, which basically means they take all the source tapes (like you see Meat and Todd using on the Classic Albums DVD) and do all the stuff again and because of some clever processing on the individual tracks they can often make old albums sound lots better (or at least differently) when they do this again.

Thanks Musicman ... that's much better than my feable effort! :D

It's interesting though how excellently mastered vinyl albums sometimes don't sound nearly so good as the originals when transferred to CD, at least to these ears, and done well a remaster can work wonders.

Diane

Are you sure you don't have mixing mixed up with mastering?

Maybe so, obviously recording music at home will always mean these two are very intertwined. Indeed if it is a much more professional recording such as Dead Ringer these stages will be more separate. However as it states in that article, to be good at Mastering, means you need to know the impact of the changes to the tracks on the mix therefore there is still a "mixing" element to that stage I guess (ie by "normalising" a (part of a) track, might mean you will have to remix the track (slightly) to get things right again. But you're right the creative part of the mixing should probably be done before mastering commences.

Mastering is not the same as mixing - it's in the mix that the individual balance of each track (vocals, instruments, effects etc) are set. The mastering process is what turns the whole thing into a 'proper' sounding record. Extra compression/limiting is used to iron out 'peaks' in the recording, and to boost the overall level of sound. Have you ever noticed that some CDs are 'louder' or 'quieter' than others? Modern mastering processes can 'maximise' the final output level without danger of distortion or 'clipping' of the signal. However, in the case of Dead Ringer, I think it was an Equalization problem. I've found that if you cut the low-mid frequencies (around 300-500Hz) and boost the high-mid frequencies (around 5KHz) you get a more even, transparent sound. Sorry if this is all a bit technical, it's just my opinion.

Thanks all for your help - one Mod brushed by, but I think we got away with it :lol:

So basically, mastering is copying the music to the CD or whatever, and may include an element of mixing in order to ensure the best sound once mastered.

If that's not right I don't care anymore, it'll do for me ;)

This is one song I love....and would love to hear Live....

I really do love this album, It is great, It is the one I have in my CD player in my car.

If, and only if they were to do something to, i dont know, re-release it again then like it has been said before it should be done live, I would love to hear Meat sing Peel Out now, it is such a great tune, :D

I think you're basically spot on son of meat loaf, mastering would solve a good deal of the problem but then there are other issues with the arrangement that just make the whole thing sound a bit, uh, unfinished if you see what i mean, i actually thought everything is permitted would work quite well without guitars and drums just a piano and a softer vocal, but considering his voice at the time that wasn't an option.

I think it´s really time to debate about a re-recording of DR, only a lifeful debate can get Meat and the record company to re record it.

I think this is the best of the albums and in my opinion Meat's voice had the best quality and range around this time. I remember reading either a post on here or something else where Meat himself said that he recorded it one line at a time and i was quite taken aback because to me its so similar to how he sounded before Bat - I honestly think he'd strain his whole body now trying to reach some of the notes in that CD - doubt he'd be able to re record it live without rewriting the music, and thats really more to do with how your voice changes with age and use.

I love DR infact i would say it's my favourte album! Although we know the history of how his voice was at the time etc, when i listen to the album i think it sounds great.
I think the song's are lyrically perfect and as a whole the album is put together fairly well.
I would love to see the song's live but i guess it wont happen. As for re-recording the album again i would guess the way his voice is now he would record them slightly different, although i would still love to hear how it would sound.

I love the album the way it is....true his voice sounds a little different now. Some things should stay the same

I agree Deadringer is a brilliant album, it's one of my favourites.

no i don't think dead ringer needs re recorded, its an excellent album as is... however a re released tweeked version like bat 2 has just benefited from would be very cool. just my thoughts.

As was said somewhere above Dead Ringer doesn't need rerecording, merely someone who know's what they're doing to remaster it.

I like the fact that it was part of my life twenty odd years ago and stayed there, why should it be re-recorded, it was good enough then and in my heart remains good enough now.

I'm not sure about re-doing DL, although i would like to hear a live album.. That would be awsome!