Patti has been tweeting again....
 

Whats triggered this latest outburst do we think?

I Guess it wouldnt be the first time that "Patti, Tweeted again" :lol:

I like her as an artist for the rest i don't care/bother to much about her positive or negative.

A crying shame.

Patti was my favourite female counterpart for Meat Loaf. I was devastated when she left the NLE both times

Could be because Meat was a serial abuser, Leslie suffered to literal insanity, and Deborah - for her many sins - ~~~~ed his kids out of their inheritance.

Something like that.

I hate to break it to you, but your heroes are not the beacons of morality you thought they were. Far from it. Can you still enjoy the music? Of course. I do. But take it from someone who has not only worked with Jim et al as a friend and collaborator for 5 + years (and suffered the consequences), but also as someone who knows Rory and Patti personally, and has had many conversations with previous past collaborators who were all threatened with the worst behaviors and consequences - these are not good people. Violence? Death threats? Plagiarism? Narcissistic abuse? Gaslighting?

You want it blunt? That's it.

Did you even listen to God of Low?

What will it take to wake you people up?

It's not 'trolling', there are no 'ulterior motives'. You know how many times Patti has been approached by major news outlets post Meat Loaf?

Many times.

She never went there.

Let that sink in for a while.

Someone sent me this thread in a link. I don't check in often, and you probably won't hear from me for a while. Even Meat refused to post here in the end (and, as he was fond of pointing out, it's his name on the top of this forum).

Bottom line: they're not the people you thought they were.
Was he good? Was he BAD?
C'mon, you're better than this.

And if your name rhymes with 'GlandRage' and you only joined to transparently troll Patti - you get an automatic ignore. Nothing personal. But who has the time or the inclination?

Life is short.
Enjoy the music.
Because when it comes down to it, they really did create lasting, great music together.
That's the best I've got.

^ What he said.

Oh dear, ... and I never said anything about Patti in any of my posts, and I don't have a twitter account for some years now.
I did rewatch some of the videos of her concerts yesterday evening though. Don't ever put out the flame / Hold on ... her perormance on the first song is damn perfect. I wouldn't now any other rock artist with this power and nuance in the voice.

Kasim did do interviews after Meat's death

Are Pearl and Amanda angry that all the $$$ went to Deborah?

:roll:

I guess we will hear again from you, next time Patti has one of her mental episodes on Twitter.

I am a fan of the artist, not always so on the man behind the artsist, so I called out on Meat on several occasions, but at least in his face while he was still able to respond. Just as I tweeted Patti that Twitter is not the right platform to get help on her issues, which she clearly has.

Coming here, posting unfunded allegations about Meat on 'his' forum, while he is not even dead for six months is far beneath you (I hoped). Even if there is truth in your story.

Then again I learned that Patti's truth is about as factual as a movie 'based on true events'

I have seen a lot of 'his truth' 'her truth' 'your truth' and 'their truth' recently.
If only 'claiming the truth' would be the same as 'being factual' yet it hardly ever is...

It seems your only claim to fame is "collaborating" with Jim for 5 years. You are not part of the cannon. We don't need your POV. I'm done with your posts. Move on and make some work that you can be proud of. All of us who have wanted to have spoken to Rory and Patti at length throughout the years.

Whatever has happened with Meat's money is nothing to do with us. Trying to cause a witch hunt for Deborah won't work because whilst we respect Deborah, it was Meat who we adored.

In the UK, if you die, your spouse gets your money. The kids will get it eventually. However, they are professionals in their own right, grown up, settled and secure.

I for one hope that your next post is many years from now. So we can get back to celebrating Meat Loaf's legacy.

At the end of the day, whose business is it who gets what from Meats estate??

It's not for us to judge or pass comment on.

It's certainly not for Patti to offer an opinion on, she has her issues with Meat, and that's her business, ok she offers up those issues for comment with her tweets, but, at the end of the day, she's in the wrong there in my opinion.

i loved Meats music, but am under no illusions that the on stage & record persona is not the real life Meat, he said it often enough that he sang the songs in character.

I urge members of this forum to not give anymore airtime to Pattis rants on here, most of us don't know Meat or Patti, and therefore have no business wading into her spat with Meat/his estate as we simply don't know what is true.

No disrespect meant here to That Writer Guy, but maybe it's best you don't try to enlighten us as to Pattis meaning behind her tweets, you know her, you know her story, and that puts you inn a privileged position, that the rest of us are not in. You offer titbits into her post meaning, then stop before you say to much (which is your right) you talk about Meats working relationship with others and talk about the way Meat Allegedly treated them, which isn't really on. Oki I get you're trying to provide a degree of context, but, your telling other peoples stories, and 99% of the members on here have no way to ascertain if what your saying is true, or embellished in anyway.

I don't claim to speak for anyone on here, but, I prefer to remember Meat for his songs and film work, without rumours about how he treated people. I daresay he wasn't perfect, but to me that is none of our business.

TWG has certainly added some interest to this forum over the last few years.

The whole point of a forum is that people have different stories and views. Some we agree with and some we disagree with.

Personally I would like to know more of TWG direct experiences with Jim...both good and bad.

As for Patti rather than having twitter outbursts, maybe she would be so good to come on here and tell her experiences of working with Meat and the bad.

We should never try to limit people's opinions on here though. This forum virtually died of death due to certain forum members and moderators banning any negative talk a few years back...

Well that's my opinion anyhow!

I'm not saying people shouldn't post,TWG has posted some great stuff over the years, but his recent posts, hinting at knowing stuff, but not telling (Because not his story to tell) are really frustrating.

I'd love t hear him talk about his time working with Jim, I'd love to hear Patti talk about her experiences with Meat and the band, ( the first couple of Kitchen Sink podcasts on that subject were really interesting) but I don't want to know 1/2 a story, told second hand, by someone who has no intention of completing the story.

With Patis Tweets, and TWG saying about EX NLE members having bad experiences with Meat, there is a danger this forums gonna become less about Meat, and more about unsubstantiated rumours, about people who most of us cant even dream of approaching to try to get some context.

Im not saying we should only post about Meat is af he was some kind of saint, who did no wrong, I'm sure Meat made mistakes, and had a bad side, as we all do, he was only Human. But posting stories that he can't defend himself over, or offer his side of the story is imo pointless.

I think that on some subjects, its a case of You say it best when you say nothing at all, if you're not prepared (or allowed) to tell the whole story.

There is only one truth.
The truth.
That's it.

You're free to cast aspersions on Patti's mental health whenever the need moves you. It's both uninformed and childish, but it's your right. Patti has enough to deal with in the real world without deliberately obtuse comments being thrown her way by people who should know better, people who demand answers and then choose to stick their fingers in their ears when they get what they asked for.

Everything that I have stated is the truth.
Whether you believe that or not I won't be losing any sleep (... there's a bad joke in this somewhere).

There is no gain here. I don't want to be in the position where I have to present the people that I've worked with, and associated camp, in a negative light. But I won't be silenced or pushed into placated submission, either. If you push too hard, I'll turn up from time to time and set the record straight.

That's my right, and I will exercise it.

Nothing would make me happier than being able to come here and tell you how wonderful it was working with Jim et al, that we did great things together and what a wonderful human being Meat was.

Sadly, that's not reality.

End of the day: I know that you're a huge fan, and that you'll defend Meat to your last breath, and that's fine. That's your right (even when it's so obviously wrong and ill-informed). But you have to learn to accept that Patti has rights, too. Rights that you clearly do not appear to understand.

So let's wrap this up, because I'm busy as I'm sure you are, too.
Believe it or not, I do appreciate your videos, Adje. But cut Patti some slack.
In the meantime, keep up the good work.
No hard feelings.
:up:

Actually, you're doing nothing but that. And frankly, unless Patti asked you to give additional context to watch she says but somehow chooses to not say herself, I argue, it's not your right. Your overstepping significantly.

Interesting choice of words.
Who wants 'fame'?
Patrick Ryan Frank "collaborated" with Jim, too. Only difference was Patrick had no idea until he saw his own material copy-pasted into the musical, 'by Jim Steinman'.

Alas, many a villager has said the same thing.
"We don't need your sort round 'ere."
Relax, that's a joke.

I 'moved on' in 2018. Maybe you missed it.

Since that time I've written two novels, the first of which is under consideration with one of the top 5 literary agencies in NYC. I've won three literary awards. Shortlisted for more. The industry is going through something of a hard and obscure time right now, but there is some light at the end. I'm currently writing a third novel while I pitch and market the first. Wheels turn slowly. I worked on a pilot for a genre show. Didn't happen, but that's life.
At the same time I was (and am) dealing with a debilitating medical condition, symptoms of which you can't imagine and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. Again, that's life. You take the good with the bad and, hopefully, you learn to become a better person.

That's all any of us can do.

:up:

Is that how moving on looks like?

I know you don't want to talk to me anymore, but, I'm going to ask you anyway: What is your goal here? What reaction would satisfy you?
You come to a Meat Loaf forum saying: Meat Loaf Bad, Meat Loaf's wife Bad. Some people seem to like your posts and seem to agree, others don't. You expect the truth you're telling to be obvious. You expect ... just ... what do you expect? Should everyone bow before ThatWriterGuy?

If you have to right to say what you want on this forum, why did I "obviously just came here to troll Patti" :roll:

I've dealt with narcisists in my life and I know this game of granting yourself every right and the absolute truth, while others have no right and are always wrong. I see the same pattern in the way you argue.

And you can't! let! it! go! unless everyone says your right and the greatest.

Send Patti my love TWG. 👍

Could you give us some more details on these novels and your writing work?

That's nice, but not what this is about. What triggers me in your posts?

The original message
(All about Deborah, obviously)
Yet the first part of your response. The very first line:
I can go through other posts, I remember your Weinstein remark (and yes, AFTER you did that remark you posted a line that Meat Loaf isn't Weinstein, or something in that line).
Not to mention
Let's not pretend you posted that because you expected uplifting comments

To me your remarks are malicious towards Meat.

As for cutting Patti some slack, I actually do. But if you are so concerned about her well being and close enough to her to have contact, maybe it's not me you should focus on, but Patti. If she was my friend, posting the stuff she posts on twitter (no context, also very malicious posts) I would prevent my friend from posting that on social media.

Don't blame me or others (except for lunatics that do threats) for calling upon her way of vile messages. You want to be her friend, you want to protect her from the evil people on social media? Don't lecture us, lecture the source. Lecture her..

As for the record, I don't dislike you. Just because we disagree doesn't mean I don't have certain respect for you. But I do feel bitterness in your posts.

Patti is doing her crusade. I don't think she chose the right path, but that is not up to me.

But again, this is 'His' forum, 'His' home. And all you are doing now (imo) is pissing on his grave and tell us that the grass around his tomb is wet and is starting to smell bad.

You want me to respect Patti, and "cut her some slack" at least do the same to Meat when you come here.

No bitterness here. Should be clear. Just in case it's not, well, now you know.

As for Patti and her own comments on her personal Twitter page. That's on Patti. She's free to do that. Just as you're free to wade in with zero context and disparage her (don't mistake annoyance and the wearing thin of patience for bitterness - it isn't). You're also free to ignore her, and me, and based on the content of your continued replies you probably should.

Patti doesn't need your advice, and she certainly doesn't need your constant ridiculing of her mental health. You want to carry this on, this harassment, that's on you. I wouldn't advise it - and that's friendly advice - but you're free to do whatever you like.

I'd rather you didn't, but that's just me.

We've been talking about Meat since well before his passing, as well you know. I put KS on hiatus with regards to this. I won't lie and say, yeah, sure, he was a real swell guy. He could be a real monster, at times. However, I'm not of the inclination to repeat these things ad nauseam. What I will repeat, due to your continual selective reading, is that it doesn't please me to have to say this stuff. Not at all. And yet, sadly, it's stuff that clearly needs saying.

Patti has some very real, very serious issues in her life right now. It has nothing to do with your perception of her mental health. Every time you misinterpret something that she has said, willfully, and attack her, I'm going to set you - or whoever - straight.

One day, you will indeed get the message.

God of Low is self explanatory. I need more than both hands to count the people that Meat and Jim have screwed over and traumatized during their careers.

You don't want to hear it? Fine.
But it's true. I wish it weren't.

So let's wrap this up - again, Adje - otherwise I'm going to start billing you.

No hard feelings. Go about your life.
Listen to the music that you love.
Honestly, it's a short trip.
Enjoy it.
Do better things.

:up:

Any links to your literacy work TWG?

You can find the awards listed on various awards sites (I'd start with Scottish Book Trust, and go from there). My own website, too (find it via KS).

Everything else, at present, is either in development or under consideration for representation. Like I said, wheels turn slow and the industry is emerging from a very dark, black hole. But it's getting there.

Thanks for asking :up:

We have got more than our fair share here on the forum through the years too.

I have seen so many extremely crazy, strange, harsh, nutty and rude postings on this site from the big man himself that I can say that I sadly have no trouble believing that there's more to the story...

All these posts were very quickly modified or removed by the mods.

Cheers....I do like the way you write so would love to buy a copy of your novel when/if it gets released

Something with a pot and a kettle.... ;-)

From the way you responded to my post (or better avoided most of it) it's very clear that, whatever your motives are, they have nothing to do with good intentions.

And stop playing the harrassement card. It doesn't suit you. You can't have it both ways. You can't say to me (or anyone else) "what you say about Patti is unfunded and I friendly advice you to keep it to yourself" and at the same time do exactly the same about Meat and call it "Stuff that clearly needs to be said"

That said, thank you for your 'friendly' advice and let me be so kind to give some advice of my own:
Read back your own post and perhaps follow your own wisdom

Best advice you could give yourself. ;-) But we both know it's not what you want.

You may be happy to know I actually take up on your advice. I have said what I needed to say and I found the answers I (unfortunately) expected to find. So it's no use for me to continue this.

And I actually sincerely wish you well, Despite our complete disagreement on the matter :cool:

Well, that wasn't transparent at all.

That's another one for the Sandmage list.

Some people never learn.

:nope:

Things I'll address for the sake of clarity:

So let's examine my intentions.
Money?
Nope. Could've/would've/should've taken up any number of publications who asked.
Didn't.
Defamation? Nope. Could've/would've/should've told the entire story, exactly as it happened, blow-for-blow and sparing no one.
Didn't.
Self-promotion? Nope. Could've published a memoir courted by Polgon, an imprint of the Birlilnn Group, who were more than enthusiastic pre-pandemic and approached me in the first instance.
What happened?
Didn't.

The only questions I didn't answer were the ones that I have already answered within this thread.

The only other questions I didn't answer were the moronic ones.

There's a fundamental difference here. I have worked with these people for half a decade and experienced this first hand. Patti is a very close and dear friend. I've spoken with many ex collaborators. We went through some crazy shit. You did not. You have no exposure to either of our industries, and only have a naively biased fans-eye view of the individuals involved (the last time I'll be generous with you).

Harassment/Harasser. Here's a definition: misguided and/or willfully malignant individual who takes it upon himself to continually criticize the mental health of a world class vocalist, unsolicited and with hostile intent.

Granted, that's not the Merriam-Webster definition.
Close enough.

You ended with a paragraph straight out of The Sandmage Book For Obvious Trolls. Totally disingenuous, passive aggressive, and transparent in the extreme.

That's why you're on the sandmage list.

:nope:

Mods, it might be worth locking this thread, there's nothing constructive in here, and it's just becoming a war of words between TWG and Adje.

Nothing against either of them, but it's getting way off topic IMO

And while we're at it, why is it a matter of news every time Patti posts something? I think what she says is important too, but all these threads ever do is spark an unnecessary battle. How about Patti says what she says, we feel what we feel, and any addressing (or lack thereof) just happens off the forum, if at all? Can we do that?

TWG...do you happen to know if Patti has any live shows planned either solo or collaborations planned?

No worries if you don't, but we have missed that voice and stage persona!

IMHO all these post about Patti and her tweets, have no business in here, they belong to the gossip department of the SUN..this is a Meat Loaf forum (and this place should in the first place be about Music/Performance,whether that be on stage or in a movie)... i have noticed that it are always the same 2 people who like to talk and post about miss Russo's rants... i think we have put our self, far away from speculations and here say and focus on that what this place is about in the first place

I would agree with this.

We've been kicking around the idea of discussing the 80s albums in their entirety, possibly Patti and myself, maybe one of the Goff Sisters, maybe someone completely unrelated but a prominent name in today's music scene.

These albums get little exposure given the bookend, sandwiched between two seminal Bat albums. But there's a lot to like. I'm a fan of this era in general.

Maybe that'll happen.
I'd love to do it given the time.

As already stated, Patti is going through something of a crisis right now.

Prior to this, there were plans for a longterm residency, then lockdown happened and that was suspended.

More recently, other interesting developments in a slightly different capacity.

I'll keep you posted.

We talked yesterday over the phone for around 2 hours. All is good. Anything interesting coming up and you'll hear about first via KS.

Why should censorship and closing of threads always be the solution?

It is sadly not possible to have discussions before someone comes up with wishes like yours.

This forum is already well on its way to a silent death and locking of threads speeds this process up in my opinion.

Completely agree threads getting locked have driven lots of people away from this forum imo.

Well, you'd think the number of threads about a specific subject getting locked would give people a clue not to discuss it, but here we are.

Was Patti ever approached to be part of Bat tribute act (Caleb Johnson + Paul Crook, Randy and John) as part of the UK tour?

They seem to be playing some decent venues....Patti definitely would have helped ticket sales.....

What's the point of a discussion forum where you can't discuss?

This forum is unfortunately slowly dying and it seems a little strange to close all the threads that actually give's us a little bit to talk about and discuss.

It'd be one thing if these threads didn't devolve into the same type of discourse, but they do. You wanna blame somebody for it, blame the bad actors who are more willing to smear someone's words because they don't fit their narrow definition of "proof" than to concede that maybe their hero had feet of clay. Then again, I'm asking this of the same people who still insisted he could sing at the end with any wiggle room they could dream up (including "I'd listen to the CD if I wanted to hear note-perfect, I'm there for the showmanship!") rather than confront that inconvenient truth, so what should I expect...

I've been thinking back and forth if, after reading this thread, I'm in the mood for cutting Patti some slack. Since the connection between her and TWG is real, I'm going with not in the mood. And since you guys @roomster and @nightinr want to keep discussing, although for some reason you aren't discussing, I'd like to throw this in:
Patti states in her tweets that she deeply insulted Meat's wife to his kids. This to me ends the discussion on whether Meat was right in fireing her. Even if you're so good at your job that you can get away with insulting your boss, if you insult his wife you're on the streets. That's guaranteed. If she now vetos Patti appearance on the tribute show, that's a perfectly good explanation for Patti not appearing on them and Patti being sour at this point in time.

Just my two cents on the actual thread topic.

I'm now learning that the problem for the Meat Loaf forum becoming silent is that the Meat Loaf fans don't want to hear that their hero had feet of clay and couldn't sing anymore on the Meat Loaf forum. In unrelated news: Man claiming Jesus was Satan surprised and angry about being thrown out of church.

As a new member of this forum I get the picture. You guys are Braver than you are.

As others have mentioned this.

We actually discussed it a while back. The tribute band was never a consideration, for a number of reasons, and Patti was happier looking towards other, newer ventures (backed by some serious patrons at one time or other).

As always, it came down to what felt right at the time.

Ok. As im getting quoted and ridiculed for suggesting this thread should have been locked, I'll attempt to explain.

At the time I made the suggestion to the mods, this thread was not in any way constructive, speculating on what Meat's widow had done to deserve Patti to tweet about her, (ok fair enough to a point)

A public argument between TWG & Adje, (both historically valued members here who've provided insights and quality material) that maybe would have been better off via PM than on public display.

TWG to address you directly, My only gripe with you, is, you keep on mentioning Snippets of other peoples "beefs" with Meat, then stopping dead & saying can't/won't say anymore, for full story ask them (Rory/Patti/Kasim to name a few) and see if they'll tell you, Knowing full well that 99% of us on here are unlikely to ever meet these people. Ok you're in a position to have met or worked with these people, and learnt a few stories, but If you can't tell them, then, it'd be better & avoid speculation & arguments if you didn't "tease". Those people can tell their own stories if and when they want to IMO.

You've kinda become Pattis unofficial spokesman, and, whilst I enjoy 99% of your posts and the kitchen sink blog, hinting at what she's referring to with her twitter tweets, isn't really on. If Patti has something to say, then let her say it when she feels ready to/is able to (in the event of legal issues stopping her revealing more)

That said I'm sorry to hear she's in a bad place dealing with a crisis and hope she can resolve that soon.

I'm sure most of us on here, know Meat wasn't an angel, wasn't without fault and probably has some skeletons in the closet when it comes to ex bandmembers, collaborators etc, but my Point of view is I don't offer an opinion on that side of him, as, it is none of my business. I enjoyed Meats music, performances and film/tv work, anything else isn't my concern (or really anybody's other than those involved)

This Forum is going to be a little slow at the moment, as, there's nothing new been announced to discuss, But that doesn't mean that Pattis tweets should be discussed in depth, as, at the end of the day they've been attacks on Meat (prior to his death) and now seemingly at his widow.

Ok other than the Musical & the official Tribute act, there isn't much else else current to discuss, but does that give us an excuse to wade in to matters that really are none of our concern (It's fairly obvious what Patti is tweeting about, and I really don't think it's something that needs discussing on here)

Just my Opinion. retires to put on hard hat.

Where have you been ridiculed?

Let's get real here.

The only time you'll ever see me pop up in threads is when something erroneous has been stated as fact.

99.9% of the time that's the case.

I'll step in, clarify to the best of my ability, and then continue to clarify when 'bad actors' (and that's being generous), repeatedly, knowingly, and willfully attempt to misinterpret my motivation. Occasionally, when certain people who use this forum Tweet at Patti and call her the worst things you can imagine, I'll attempt to enlighten you with regards to exactly how backwards you have this entire story.

And you do. You have it completely and totally backwards.

At the same time, I'm a remarkably laid back person and, as such, there are no arguments here. Stern? Sure. When needs be. But I'm easy. At the same time, I'm incredibly busy and have a limit on energy expenditure as, right now, this is my most valuable commodity. It isn't easy to come by, and it certainly isn't cheap.

If I post something like God of Low. There's a message in that. It's up to you to decide what that message is and if you're going to tap into reality or live within the fantasy. Either is fine - sincerely.

Don't like it?

Answer's simple: don't listen.

When I come here I tell you as much as I comfortably can, in an attempt to try and help you understand what you have gotten so abominably wrong. There are lines that I won't cross. You'll just have to deal with that.

You, yourself, could approach Rory tomorrow and ask him whatever you feel you need to ask - you have the means to do this. He isn't in hiding (there's an irony here, and maybe one day you'll hear that story, too). Will he reply? That all depends upon how you approach him, and how you phrase the question. Act like 99% of this thread and I guarantee you, you'll be met with the cold wall of silence.

As for what I will and won't say. There's only one person who gets a voice in that particular debate. The harder you push, the more likely I am to go in the opposite direction.

I hope this helped clarify a few of those points above. Anything else - you know where my PM box is. Want to reach me outside of this forum? Go to my website. You can contact me via the link on the page (note: these are vetted and passed on, so it may take me a few days to reply, sometimes longer).

For now, this is me punching out.

I'll collect my pay at the end of the week.

(Jeez, someone had better be paying me for this. I'll take it in scotch, that's fine).

Ok Maybe the wrong wording, but the idea that someone should suggest this thread was locked certainly has been.

Ok maybe I have read some of your posts wrong, and misunderstood the points you've tried to put across/ For any misunderstanding I apologise.

I wouldn't know wherew to find Rory, and even if I did, I'm not sure i'd have the confidence to approach him, engage him in conversation, let alone broach the subject, so I'll take your word for it he's an approachable guy, who, might answer questions if phrased politely!

I did watch God of Low, and enjoyed it as a piece of work, I'm not looking beyond that for a hidden meaning. I know you've stated before public and private are different things, but, on a podcast after Meats death, Kasim couldn't have been any more respectful of Meat, but then I guess he'd hardly use that platform to slate him.

Patti, as I said before I hope finds peace and resolves the crisis she's dealing with.

I don't doubt what you say, and as stated before enjoy your posts in the main, as well as Kitchen sink.

I'm sure I'd enjoy the books you've mentioned are possibly in the pipeline, and can I ask what your website address is, as I'd be interested to look at it for news on you etc. I'll pass on your offer of p.m.'s / emails via site as, I doubt you could answer any questions any more fully than you do already, but I do get your point that your aim is to correct falsehood stated as truth.

Once more I apologise for any annoyance I may have caused you by misunderstanding your point.

Some badmouthing of Meat on this “fan” website is frustrating.
Sure he was no saint, sure Patti will have her reasons, sure with the enourmous pressure he was facing some things went wrong. But being lucky enough to call myself his friend, I experienced multiple times that he tried to get things right for everyone.

Meat was a complicated character with no easy life, but a wonderfull and caring soul!

Exactly so Michael. :up: Pissing on his grave is in my view only demeaning to any who engage in it

There's a sizeable difference between telling the truth and 'pissing on his grave'.
You know that.
I know that.
Let's move on.

Truth in the eyes of who? Meat is not here to tell his side of the story because he is dead. Yet, on his supposed 'fan club', folks are dissecting this story trying to dig up just how much of an asshole he was. I feel like pissing on his grave fits the bill here. This is not the place. Make a Facebook group or something. I'm sure there are many people who would join the group and enjoy gossip (let's face it, no true facts have been laid out, its pure gossip and mischievous "you know what he did wink wink nudge nudge" rhetoric at this point).

It's fairly common that people will come out of the woodwork after a person's death and try to ruin their reputation or "set things straight". In many cases, legitimate hurt feelings were involved. Meat was no saint, he was not perfect by any measurement. But as with most people, there was good and bad. I am not here to defend Meat or Patti or anyone. But I don't feel like THIS is the place to be having this discussion. It's already upsetting enough that my hero is dead. But to continuously have to come here and see more back and forth between ThatWriterGuy and others regarding "wink wink you should believe me based on (insert my opinion based on partial truthful information I heard)" just how ~~~~ed up Meat Loaf was is not enjoyable. Is this a fan club, or is it a tear Meat down club? Each person involved always brings their own opinion of what happened in the room. let's face it, we will never get the full picture. This conversation could go on literally forever and we still won't get there. Meat and Jim are dead. Others don't like talking about this and many loved Meat and had great experiences with him and don't feel like there is anything to discuss.

Time to move on sounds about right.

See all of my previous posts. They address everything above (and then some).

No sweat.

But since you asked, and to answer your question directly:

Truth in the eyes of those who were there, and those who know those who were there. As it were, The Truth.

I was there for the Steinman stuff.
Patti et al were there for the Meat Loaf stuff.

If this upsets you, the answer is simple: Don't read it and go about your day. The only reason it gets posted here is because willfully bad actors appear and attempt to distort reality. This subject could have been put to bed multiple times, yet certain people always seem to think that they know better than those who experienced it first hand.

And that's fine, feel free to question, but expect me to pop in from time to time when it's brought to my attention and correct the inaccuracies.

Either way, I'm not losing any sleep.
You shouldn't either.

Howcome you edit every post you make, are you not comfortable with what you say in the first instance?

I'm a writer.

90% of writing is editing.

It's habitual. Nothing sinister.

Sometimes, I may want to phrase something slightly differently. Sometimes, if I feel like I've already made my point and repeated myself, I'll go back in and edit the repetition out.

Well, if nothing else, this toxic thread is just about keeping the forum alive. Sad, sad times.

Miss you, Meat. Every day

Well this is exactly the thing. People who jump up and down often will get the attention they seem to crave and Twitter especially is superb for that, far better than a small Facebook group or a forum.

There are plenty who are siding and have sided with Patti and that may well be justified to a certain extent, but as the most reasonable (in my opinion) people pointed out to come out and say a bunch of carry on and throw ~~~~ yous to a widow straight after Meat's death was disgusting timing to say the least.

:roll:

I wouldn't pay $44 to own Twitter let alone $44 billion.

A stupid place bringing the worst out of people and making everyone become a bunch of narcissists and pretty unreasonable at times.

Toxicity, as you call it, only persists if you give it oxygen. If you'd rather the forum survived for a better reason (in your view), why not come up with a topic?

Agreed.
Musk was never going to buy Twitter. That much should be obvious.
A phrase you'll be hearing shortly: "Company adverse material effect".
Huge collapse in stock price if they accept the termination passively.
What Twitter are looking at it is both a criminal charge and being civilly sued, let alone losing major shareholders and advertisers (which should go without saying at this stage).
Beginning of the end.

As I'm sure some of us will be aware Patti has been tweeting again in recent days with another installment of her "truth".

This installment is focused on Deborah. Has anybody got any information to back up or countradict Patti's account?

Just had a read through...This time it does seem very heartfelt. She definitely felt her boss was treated wrongly...I wonder what being a fly on a wall in that hospital would have been like...I wish there wasn't this kind of drama happening, especially considering the nice things Meat's wife just posted on FB. But then Meat did have a knack for the dramatic didn't he? :-P

What a carry on. :roll:

She loved him very much, that’s obvious. That’s why she’s so upset about the whole situation.

It would be great for Kitchen Sink to be reinvigorated to get to hear Patti's experiences.

Nice try ;)

Count me out of this one!

yes!

Do we know if Patti was invited to the memorial service?

Respectfully declined.

Thanks for the info Nick...

It's certainly interesting that Meat's daughters invited Patti....but no sign of Deborah we are led to believe.

Patti is always invited to my birthday party.
Anytime between now and me becoming a pensioner. 😜

Deborah was invited but declined.

Deborah was invited but declined.